The Fermi Thread - Part 3

[xVeinx]

There seems to be a lot of confusion about computer wattage. PSUs ain't 100% effective. Current new models have 80plus certs and a few with more, but thats best case scenarios. 80% efficiency is a realistic value and for you in 110V land maybe a little less.

This means that if you measure at the wall a 100W draw you're using 80W, the rest is heat in the PSU. This also means that a rated 500W PSU at maximum load will draw 625W from the wall..

So when you see statements like "the system draws 450W" which alludes to a killawatt measurement, that's only the maximum for a 360W PSU.

Many sites will factor that in...

[Sn0wm@n]

Companies don't really price their product based on production cost. They price it on how much the market is willing to pay

its a bit of both ... what they want to sell it for to make the process lucrative + what people will pay ... they usually go with an average between both ......

[Gilhooley]

Many sites will factor that in...

And some will measure on the MB for even better values. But I think that 9 of 10 sites doesn't..

[natty]

you gotta be an electrical engineer to figure this stuff out

[GoldenTiger]

There seems to be a lot of confusion about computer wattage. PSUs ain't 100% effective. Current new models have 80plus certs and a few with more, but thats best case scenarios. 80% efficiency is a realistic value and for you in 110V land maybe a little less.

This means that if you measure at the wall a 100W draw you're using 80W, the rest is heat in the PSU. This also means that a rated 500W PSU at maximum load will draw 625W from the wall..

So when you see statements like "the system draws 450W" which alludes to a killawatt measurement, that's only the maximum for a 360W PSU.

Yeah, I 100% wigged out and forgot about that.... .

[WeiT.235]

From Fellix,

OK, some first hand info, but my source is still under NDA, so not much in-depth details.

GTX470 is ~10% faster than stock HD5870, benched in Crysis.
The noise level under load is similar to GTX285 -- noticeable but not irritating.

Bench setting is unclear...

[saaya]

OEMs requested the 3xx rename.

that doesnt explain why they renamed their retail products though
and it doesnt explain why they named the last G92 based OEM part GTS150 while the retail cards were called GTS250... same specs, same clocks, same chip... but sure, it was those oh so evil oems that push nvidia to rename their cards to make them sound more powerful

From Fellix,
Bench setting is unclear...

thx
no big difference though, 10% more or less... i doubt itll make a difference.
whether you play on a system with a 5870 or gtx470 or gtx480... it should be pretty much the same... unless you game at ultra high res, then the 480 might actually make a difference compared to the 470 and 5870... cant wait for reviews to check that

oh and about the 10% more perf for double the watts...
im not saying i believe it, i have no idea... but i believe he meant actual wattage of 5870s is around 130W and actual wattage of 480s is 250W, so then its ALMOST double the wattage... IF 480s are really that power hungry is another question...

since their tdp was rumored to be close to 300W first, that might have been an electrical worst case scenario which was very unrealistic, so nvidia lowered it to a more realistic max tdp value... but i dont think the 480 comes close to 250W under gaming load... id say 200W max when playing games, and a 5870 is probably around 140W max when playing games.

[annihilat0r]

saaya: I think you missed that the guy reported %10 better perf. in Crysis of 470, not 480...

However, this still might be the 2560 + 4xAA case which says little...

[WeiT.235]

must be the most power hungry config. ever...

[WeiT.235]

saaya: I think you missed that the guy reported %10 better perf. in Crysis of 470, not 480...

However, this still might be the 2560 + 4xAA case which says little...

agree, I guess the 5870 1g must be included for the bench, instead of 2gb version. In high setting like 2506x1600 in crysis, 1g version is easy to use out of the buffer.

[Sn0wm@n]

we might see 90 pages before the 6th of april LOLL

[annihilat0r]

we might see 90 pages before the 6th of april LOLL

yeah but at least reviewers have the cards now, any info leaking should be close to correct

[Sn0wm@n]

yeah but at least reviewers have the cards now, any info leaking should be close to correct

indeed..... we should prepare the anti depression med for the nvidia fanboys .....

[RPGWiZaRD]

It's like only 3 days left (it's past midnight here) and there's no comprehensive leaked stuff, yea the most important specs are revealed but nothing besides this, no trustworthy benchmarks etc. I must say this is very impressively kept secret. GT200 was kept quite secret until like a week beforehand, things started leaking out, benchmarks etc but even 3 days before fermi stuff is meant to be released no signs of real benchmarks etc. Congrats nvidia to this if nothing else.

[natty]

It's like only 3 days left (it's past midnight here) and there's no comprehensive leaked stuff, yea the most important specs are revealed but nothing besides this, no trustworthy benchmarks etc. I must say this is very impressively kept secret. GT200 was kept quite secret until like a week beforehand, things started leaking out, benchmarks etc but even 3 days before fermi stuff is meant to be released no signs of real benchmarks etc. Congrats nvidia to this if nothing else.

that's probably because no one is excited about the performance

[mindfury]

Again... that is supposedly a picture of GT215.

It is GF100 A3,leaked by a chinese employee of Giada.

[***Deimos***]

Your spouse/chiropractor laughed at you when you spent $400 on it.. now who's laughing!
1500W. Let that sink in.

mobo = 6pin = 75W, 8pin = 150W.
GTX480 = mobo + 6pin + 8pin = 300W max
GTX460 = mobo + 6pin + 6pin = 225W max

For 3x SLI need: 6 PCIE connectors, and 675-900W for video cards alone.
There are about a dozen 1100-1200W PSU on the market - which suddenly dont look so excessive. But most only have enough 6/8 pin PCIE connectors for 2 x GTX480 or 3x GTX470.

Newegg has three PSU with 8 PCIE connectors, and one amazing PSU has 4x 6pin, 4x 8pin . Sadly Antec only has 1200W - hardly enough for OC CPU AND Triple or Quad SLI.

PS: If they add even metal bars/rods along top of heatsink, it will leave the same marks as grill on your hamburgers

[[XC] Oj101]

that doesnt explain why they renamed their retail products though
and it doesnt explain why they named the last G92 based OEM part GTS150 while the retail cards were called GTS250... same specs, same clocks, same chip... but sure, it was those oh so evil oems that push nvidia to rename their cards to make them sound more powerful

Hehe, you missed that I was replying to the guy I quoted where he said OEMs are getting irritated with the renames. I simply pointed out that no they're not, they REQUESTED some of the renames to differenciate between retail and OEM channels.

[saaya]

saaya: I think you missed that the guy reported %10 better perf. in Crysis of 470, not 480...
However, this still might be the 2560 + 4xAA case which says little...

no, i didnt miss that...
but whats the difference between a 5870, 5850, gtx470 and gtx480?
unless you play at super high res you wouldnt be able to tell them apart by playing games on those rigs... same res, same aa, roughly same fps and min fps...

so one card is 5% faster here, another 10% there... that doesnt really make a difference, does it? i hope reviews will have oced vs oced comparisons as well, that would be interesting... especially for the 470...

[saaya]

FYI

NVIDIA will be officially launching the GF100 graphics cards at PAX East 2010. We’d like to take this opportunity to get together with some of our biggest fans. Here’s your chance to meet some of your fellow Club SLI members as well as some of the folks from NVIDIA.

http://surveys.nvidia.com/index.jsp?...ced6122cfa2c4a

headsup for all the fermi lovers out there

[GoldenTiger]

From Fellix,



Bench setting is unclear...

Nice if true, 10% faster on the 470 over a 5870 . Will be interesting to see overclocked results especially , I run 2560x1600 and like 2-4x AA so it is important to me.

[Chickenfeed]

Nice if true, 10% faster on the 470 over a 5870 . Will be interesting to see overclocked results especially , I run 2560x1600 and like 2-4x AA so it is important to me.

If it is true at anything less than 1920x1200 8xAA very high settings, I'll be impressed. Otherwise Again we've already seen the leaks with the 470 pulling ahead at 25600x1600 4-8xAA but clearly this is a biased scenario as half the time the game wasnt playble (or just barely) on either card despite the extra video memory ( in other words 10%+ crap still is crap ) I don't have many doubts that the 470 will do better at 25600x1600 on average however I still think it won't be enough as this resolution is really multi gpu territory (unless one stays clear of current titles anyways ). I don't see the point pairing a ultra highend display with a non ultra highend gpu setup ( not to say 5870/470s aren't highend, they just aren't ultra high end solutions )

[To(V)bo Co(V)bo]

no, i didnt miss that...
but whats the difference between a 5870, 5850, gtx470 and gtx480?
unless you play at super high res you wouldnt be able to tell them apart by playing games on those rigs... same res, same aa, roughly same fps and min fps...

Just ask my wife what a inch or two of e-peen can do. Its all about girth.. sorry, I mean bandwith.

Honestly, its all about the same with these new cards. Whatever works for your res is the best choice. My 5850 maxes out almost everything but crysis at 1080p. I cant really ask for much more for just gaming. I think it was one of the best purchases I have ever made. I would wait till a fermi refresh honestly, this first batch looks horrid. I predict a fermi refresh asap, fermi just isnt profitable in its current state.

I have a hard time spending more than 250$ on a piece of hardware I know is going to be outdated and worthless in 6 months. I am way happier spending less and upgrading more often.
Pc gaming is dying fast, the consoles and ports rule the market. ACCEPT IT

[***Deimos***]

GTX480 is $499, the 470 is $349.

what has nVidia done for you in 2 years?

	$200 	$250 	$300 	$350 	$500 
Jun-08				GTX 260	GTX 280
Jul-08				GTX 260	GTX 280
Aug-08				GTX 260	GTX 280
Sep-08				GTX 260	GTX 280
Oct-08				GTX 260	GTX 280
Nov-08				GTX 260	GTX 280
Dec-08				GTX 260	GTX 280
Jan-09		GTX 260		GTX285	eol
Feb-09		GTX 260		GTX285	GTX 295
Mar-09		GTX 260		GTX285	GTX 295
Apr-09	GTX 260	GTX275		GTX285	GTX 295
May-09	GTX 260	GTX275		GTX285	GTX 295
Jun-09	GTX 260	GTX275		GTX285	GTX 295
Jul-09	GTX 260	GTX275		GTX285	GTX 295
Aug-09	GTX 260	GTX275		GTX285	GTX 295
Sep-09	GTX 260	GTX275		eol	eol?
Oct-09	GTX 260	GTX275		eol	eol?
Nov-09	GTX 260	eol		eol	
Dec-09	GTX 260	eol		eol	
Jan-10	GTX 260	eol		eol	
Feb-10	GTX 260	eol		eol	
Mar-10	eol?	eol			
Apr-10	nothin	nothin	nothin	GTX470	GTX 480
May-10	nothin	nothin	nothin	GTX470	GTX 480

5 price brackets. 2 years. 5 products. 1 chip = whole lotta slackers

CONTRAST to AMD. Unless I'm mistaken, you can still get rock bottom priced $100 4850's and $150 4870. In contrast, hard finding anything beyond GTX260 from nVidia for MANY MONTHS, and certainly nowhere remotely near $100.

	$200 	$250 	$300 	$350 	$500 
Jun-08	4850		4870		
Jul-08	4850		4870		4870x2
Aug-08	4850		4870		4870x2
Sep-08	4850		4870		4870x2
Oct-08	4850		4870		4870x2
Nov-08	4850		4870		4870x2
Dec-08	4850	4870			4870x2
Jan-09	4850	4870			4870x2
Feb-09	4850	4870			4870x2
Mar-09	4850	4870			4870x2
Apr-09	4870	4890			
May-09	4870	4890			
Jun-09	4870	4890			
Jul-09	4890	yeah, we're practically giving away those 4890s			
Aug-09	4890	yeah, we're practically giving away those 4890s			
Sep-09	4890		5850	5870	
Oct-09	5770		5850	5870	5870x2
Nov-09	5770		5850	5870	5870x2
Dec-09	5770		5850	5870	5870x2
Jan-10	5770		5850	5870	5870x2
Feb-10	5770	5830	5850	5870	5870x2
Mar-10	5770	5830	5850	5870	5870x2

Notice full lineup. No gaps. Notice how far prices fall yet availability remains.

EDIT: These are very rough approximations based on MSRP.
Notice not counting 2 different GTX260 types for nVidia
For AMD, not counting, HD4770, HD4830, HD4870 1GB, HD4850x2 or 5870 Eyeinfinity edition.

Just like 4870/4890, 1 year from now, you will be able to buy a 5850 or 5870 for less than $200... Fermi - only in a liquidation sale

[Chumbucket843]

since when did all of the 200 series reach eol?