The GT300/Fermi Thread - Part 2!

[Salavat23]

All of EVGAs boxes say DDR not GDDR.

You're right. But that is not logical at all. That's like Dell selling a computer, and calling it a "CPU."

[weston]

Impossible. Die size alone cannot be bigger then g200-b3 chips so less then 470mm^2.

What are you talking about? The die size is pretty much a known amount:

GPU: die size, transistor count

G80: 484 mm2, 681 million
G92: 324 mm2, 754 million
GT200: 576 mm2, 1400 million
GT200b: 470 mm2, 1400 million
fermi: 590 mm2, 3200 million

for comparison
RV870: 334 mm2, 2150 million

[NaMcO]

Lol sorry for quoting myself here but this is the perfect example of what I once mentioned on a different day in this topic.

Nvidia has a real tight hold on some of its old school customers..
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...82#post4254282

Except i've always had BOTH video cards (several models obviously) and i know what i'm talking about, i'm not just an "old" nVidia customer, i'm an old customer of both companies.

Did not Catalyst 10.2 bring game profiles? All you need to do is download a XML file from AMD site...

That's Crossfire profiles, not game profiles (with individual AA, AF, Vsync, etc etc) settings that load when you load a game.

Even if Fermi is SLOWER than Cypress, there are enough Nvidia loyals that will buy it regardless and keep them at a safe revenue margin.

But of course. It's not all about the speed, it's all about the reliability of a product even if you have to pay more for it. And nVidia has always been there, that's what lacks in ATI.

yours is more like disease thank god i go with whatever i want and really try hard to like it

Read above, i always had cards from both companies, but on my main PC i only use what's best at the time, and there is no ATI in there ever since the 9800's. "Trying to like it" doesn't cut it when you want to enjoy a game.

[RaV[666]]

Ati tray tools has game profiles, u can set not only AA/aniso with them but clocks and fanspeeds even (if card is supported).
Besides ati CCC has improved over last years greatly i must say.
Im using tray tools exclusively tho ;-).
It starts upon bootup, sets my idle clocks far lower than ccc did.When i launch a game it sets requierd clocks for me.Voila.

[***Deimos***]

What are you talking about? The die size is pretty much a known amount:

GPU: die size, transistor count

G80: 484 mm2, 681 million
G92: 324 mm2, 754 million
GT200: 576 mm2, 1400 million
GT200b: 470 mm2, 1400 million
fermi: 590 mm2, 3200 million

for comparison
RV870: 334 mm2, 2150 million

die size IS known?
Did I miss some big press conference or something?

Yeah I know die size is fixed (same for last 6 months), unlike clocks which can be anything last minute.. but Fermi secrets have been very well kept... so where did you get your info... just guess??

[NaMcO]

Ati tray tools has game profiles, u can set not only AA/aniso with them but clocks and fanspeeds even (if card is supported).
Besides ati CCC has improved over last years greatly i must say.
Im using tray tools exclusively tho ;-).
It starts upon bootup, sets my idle clocks far lower than ccc did.When i launch a game it sets requierd clocks for me.Voila.

This sure is interesting as well as "ATI Crossfire Xtension" which i didn't know existed. Now how hard is it to include these features in CCC? I'd say 1 day .NET coding

[insurgent]

Ati tray tools has game profiles, u can set not only AA/aniso with them but clocks and fanspeeds even (if card is supported).
Besides ati CCC has improved over last years greatly i must say.
Im using tray tools exclusively tho ;-).
It starts upon bootup, sets my idle clocks far lower than ccc did.When i launch a game it sets requierd clocks for me.Voila.

It's a waste of time to convince him otherwise. I don't think I've seen him in this thread.

Dedicated driver team, yeah

[ElSel10]

Ati tray tools has game profiles, u can set not only AA/aniso with them but clocks and fanspeeds even (if card is supported).
Besides ati CCC has improved over last years greatly i must say.
Im using tray tools exclusively tho ;-).
It starts upon bootup, sets my idle clocks far lower than ccc did.When i launch a game it sets requierd clocks for me.Voila.

Yeah, for Nvidia you have nHancer. Regardless, nvidia drivers can do this out of the box without any third party utilities.

[NaMcO]

It's a waste of time to convince him otherwise. I don't think I've seen him in this thread.

Dedicated driver team, yeah

Hey, it happens on all sides. It just happens lots more in one of them, call off the party

[Chickenfeed]

You're right. But that is not logical at all. That's like Dell selling a computer, and calling it a "CPU."

Not quite that bad but yes DDR and GDDR are completely different ( voltages, burst length, frenquency ect ) Just a bizzare marketing move on their part. They've done it for years... No idea why.

[LAMB OF GOD]

wtf ... when 197.5 was released????

[InCredible]

Read above, i always had cards from both companies, but on my main PC i only use what's best at the time, and there is no ATI in there ever since the 9800's. "Trying to like it" doesn't cut it when you want to enjoy a game.

idk about you but ive also used cards from both sides..highest end from both sides and ive dealt with driver issues on both sides..and ive owned more nvidia cards then ati and personally i can't say nvidia is any better then ati as far as reliability or performance....and come to think of it the only cards ive had to ever rma were nvidia..
and ive increased volts and pretty heavy overclocks on all my cards ive owned.

[netkas]

wtf ... when 197.5 was released????

the sshot is fake, deviceid range -05E0 - 05EF is used for gt200, and never can be used for fermi

[Zed_X]

yeah FAKE, frequencies are higher ... more higher

PS. GF100 is fully supported in 196.75 (ID removed from inf), and final release of driver is 196.78-196.80 NOT 197.xx

PS2 - i am guarantee, last GPUz did not recognise GF100 cards

[Neuromancer]

...
But of course. It's not all about the speed, it's all about the reliability of a product even if you have to pay more for it. And nVidia has always been there, that's what lacks in ATI.
...

Just curious if you did not buy the 7000 series nvidia cards because of hte high failure rate, the 8000 series cards because despite a 5 year beta perioid they could not produce a vista driver that worked... or for that matter a 6000 series card because of over heating issues?

Funny when I hear people say "nVidia makes a quality driver or product" they have the same fail rate or worse ATI does.

The big problem with ATI drivers? Finding one that fits an old ass part. Always has been and thats the chief complaint.

Has ATI had HW/SW problems? Of course.. to say otherwise would be ridiculous and make you sound like a moron (oops sorry for quoting you).

I like ATi because the have supported features that I tend to use first... IE .. multi mon, multi 3d mon etc.


Now does that mean I wont run nVidia? Absolutely not. I will abuse that HW just like I do ATi. Will I use it for my main dispaly? No.. but I admit thats a preferential thing. Not a fan boy thing. I like ATIs IQ better than nVidias.. many prefer it the other way around.

I have actually gone to the point of explaining it.. nVidia is "realistic" and ati is "cartoony" for lack of the correct way of explaining it. nVidia has a high gamma rate as default so everything to me like white washed. At the same time ATI does cartoony stuff like delineated lines on objects (no blur) and vibrant colors.. unlike relife.

CSAA works for nViida because LCDs dont have the color range real monitors do... so its like free AA I was running 24" CRTs up until last year.. so maybe I should try nVidia again. problem is their cards are STILL so over priced for the power you get..

295 costs $500? 285s are selling used for 3-400 WTF? Well admittedly those are forum prices not ebay.. I bought a 280 for under 200 last year.. and have seen 295s sell under 300.

I have seen nvidia fanboys trash forums with their grabage... and remember when they were paid to do it.

so yeah I guess I am a bit of an ATI fan boy... not cuz im getting paid.. not bwecause I have an allegiance ot the company. It just worked better for me since forever. Since I returned my FX5200 to go back to my radeon 7000, since I dumped my 7900GT for a x1950.. to my roll thorugh 3 8800 series cards all giving me BSODs... t ojust pick up a 3850 instead... to my 4850-4890 run...

I will go 5800 before I go "fermi." If youwant to call me a fanboy, I do not care. I know this for 2 reasons.

Firstly ... 5800 will be cheaper.. Secondly.. I can make my lights flicker with a 4890... whats a fermi gonna do?

[Tim]

yeah FAKE, frequencies are higher ... more higher

That would be a triumph in my opinion. I was expecting 650-675Mhz to be the utter max.

[Xoulz]

This thread has grown into legendary status. So, for a good read, I got stoned, N' read all of Part 1/Part 2()

& I'll tell you.... i can't wait for Part 3 of this saga.. what if Nvidia comes up short, but tocks the watt down by Oct?



(there are some sick mofo's on this board )

[Hu1kamania]

(there are some sick mofo's on this board )

[ChinStrap]

http://bbs.expreview.com/attachments...be60baceff.jpg

pulled that screen from this thread and added in my score from 5850 @ 1GHz core / 1200mem.



im not sure how much CPU factors in w/ this bench, i was running an overclock on my i5 750 of 4GHz... just 24/7 setting on both CPU & GPU.

it's going to be interesting to see if 470 will overclock at all.

[ajaidev]

yeah FAKE, frequencies are higher ... more higher

PS. GF100 is fully supported in 196.75 (ID removed from inf), and final release of driver is 196.78-196.80 NOT 197.xx

PS2 - i am guarantee, last GPUz did not recognise GF100 cards

That would be great even if GTX 470 ~ 5870 and GTX 480 is fast enough it may give a hard time to 5970.

ATi will have no luck 5870 @ 950Mhz because even GTX 470 would be able to OC "looking at the heatsink", they will be forced to release 5950 "2*1440" and at a proper clock speed it has the potential to compete with GTX 480 if its performance is too much for the 5870.

The best part is the decrease in price that will effect the ATi's and then the Nvidia's new GTX 4 series.

I still hope i can afford a price slashed 5970 "Its tooo expensive right now" or a 5950 or even a GTX 480. Otherwise going in for a 5870 matrix/6 edition or GTX 470 would be best.

[eric66]

Except i've always had BOTH video cards (several models obviously) and i know what i'm talking about, i'm not just an "old" nVidia customer, i'm an old customer of both companies.



That's Crossfire profiles, not game profiles (with individual AA, AF, Vsync, etc etc) settings that load when you load a game.



But of course. It's not all about the speed, it's all about the reliability of a product even if you have to pay more for it. And nVidia has always been there, that's what lacks in ATI.




Read above, i always had cards from both companies, but on my main PC i only use what's best at the time, and there is no ATI in there ever since the 9800's. "Trying to like it" doesn't cut it when you want to enjoy a game.

lol what x1900 was killer card best single card with much better iq if you can enjoy games with poor iq don't know that more like nvidia fanatism to me

[mindfury]

That would be great even if GTX 470 ~ 5870 and GTX 480 is fast enough it may give a hard time to 5970.

if 625Mhz-650Mhz GTX470 ~ 5870,GTX 480 needs to be clocked over 800MHz.

ATi will have no luck 5870 @ 950Mhz because even GTX 470 would be able to OC "looking at the heatsink"

You should take a look at GTX470 PCB,it doesn't look like a OC monster.

[FlanK3r]

so, unigine Heaven benchmark is not real games

[Andrea deluxe]

You should take a look at GTX470 PCB,it doesn't look like a OC monster.

no digital vrm.

[Macadamia]

^ Looks like 5830quality-ish PCB. For 225W. (5830 uses way less power than 5870 in games even with similar TDP values)

That's probably about a 70W difference for the same voltage regs and such. Sure it can OC on the reference PCB? Especially when compared to the 5800s?

I guess they're really confident that like the GTX275 they can really start skimping since "normal people don't overclock". Oh well, more power to them.