The GT300/Fermi Thread - Part 2!

[Dimitriman]

This is specially true for me. My 295 is faster than a 5870 at all levels, and drivers apart, (because CCC is a real PITA), if the 480 doesn't beat my 295 by a considerable margin there's no reason for me to change video card to a 480....

I really like the 5970, don't get me wrong, but i always feel that something's missing when i use my other PC with the 4870x2 in it, this keeps me away from ATI for now

Lol sorry for quoting myself here but this is the perfect example of what I once mentioned on a different day in this topic.

Nvidia has a real tight hold on some of its old school customers..
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...82#post4254282

If the day comes where Nvidia launches Fermi at 299$ then that's the day where they also start charging royalties for playing any games on your pc. Just like video games do.

It's way too unlikely that such a massive and expensive chip will sell for so little retail, especially since all the AMD price rises. Nvidia's loyalty based customers are a much much greater number then many believe. Even if Fermi is SLOWER than Cypress, there are enough Nvidia loyals that will buy it regardless and keep them at a safe revenue margin.

Just go fishing for all the posts claiming Nvidia cards "feel better", are "more reliable", "graphics look nicer" etc. as their reason for purchase and you will see exactly the people I'm talking about here.

I believe the only thing that can make Fermi fail is not launching it.

[Behemot]

The software sucks to be real honest about CCC, when will ATI deliver simple stuff like game profiles, i've been asking for this forever

Did not Catalyst 10.2 bring game profiles? All you need to do is download a XML file from AMD site...

[HelixPC]

[Chickenfeed]

Did not Catalyst 10.2 bring game profiles? All you need to do is download a XML file from AMD site...

He is wanting discrete game profiles like Nvidia's CP has had for years now (allowing you to have IQ settings set per game, not just global ). AMD has just added crossfire profiles (the XML ) which can be independantly updated ( between driver updates - eg similar to EVGAs SLI updates you could say... ) Driver wise, that is the thing I miss most about Nvidia drivers. Is it reason enough to sway my decision one or the other... probaley not. However it is a plus for their side of the fence.

[Solus Corvus]

Those boxes are so light they are floating. I suspect that there is nothing in them!

[***Deimos***]

Couldn't agree more. Never in history has a launch card using a new API been able to master it first generation. I doubt we will see strong DX11 cards until at least 3rd generation, perhaps 2nd gen refresh best case. That said, what they did with Cypress was a smart buisness move none the less. I'm sure Nvidia will push DX11 now they can call it relavent but if the past repeats itself, I am not buying it (their marketing). Hell I had a 8800gtx launch week for a good 14 months and never felt DX10 was relavent until much later...

Mr obvious. Ofcourse future cards are faster with better features - why else would folks upgrade and buy them?

And I think you underestimate the ENORMOUS effort in architecture, design, floorplanning, validation, etc to get even chips as similar as 9800GT and 9600GT made. FYI 5800fx and 7900GTX were both DX9, but they are very very different.

its getting ridiculous how many people think gf100 does not have fixed function tessellation. if they are that incompetent maybe they should hire people off of tech forums to architect their gpu's. most people probably dont know the difference from fixed function logic or programmable logic anyways.

what they did was fairly simple. gf100 basically is setting up the scene in parallel compared to serial setup of other gpus. it works well for all of the small triangle tessellation creates.

Does it really matter? The means to an end? R600 doesn't have either 2D core or correctly working AA hardware. Yet you can surf web and play games with AA.

Obviously fake

lol, my memory bandwith is better

Ghz -> GB = 1000000 / 1024^2 = 0.9313 GiB
512bit DDR = 512 * 2 / 8 = 128 (384=96, 320=80)
For GDDR5 double the clock rate shown, because GDDR5 fetches twice #bits at a time.

(if you dont use the Ghz->GB conversion factor, you will get same number as GPU-Z)
So, for your GTX295: (512/4) x 1.512Ghz = 128 x 1.512 x 0.9313 = 180.2 GigaBytes/s (GiB/s)
GTX480 from screenshot would be: (384/4) x 1.8 x 0.9313 = 160.9 GigaBytes/s (GiB/s)
For reference 5870: (256/4) x 2.4 x 0.9313 = 143.0 GigaBytes/s (GiB/s)

Almighty GTX480 only a smidgen ahead ... pff.. marketing PR wont stand for that.
Using same clocks as 5870, 480 will be 50% more, or 214.6GiB/s (or 230GB/s in marketing speak - very close to 5970's 256GB/s!!)

[Behemot]

He is wanting discrete game profiles like Nvidia's CP has had for years now (allowing you to have IQ settings set per game, not just global ). AMD has just added crossfire profiles (the XML ) which can be independantly updated ( between driver updates - eg similar to EVGAs SLI updates you could say... ) Driver wise, that is the thing I miss most about Nvidia drivers. Is it reason enough to sway my decision one or the other... probaley not. However it is a plus for their side of the fence.

Thnx for clearing things up

[illidan]

nice boxes

[annihilat0r]

nice box design, you mean. These aren't actually boxes.

[eric66]

This is specially true for me. My 295 is faster than a 5870 at all levels, and drivers apart, (because CCC is a real PITA), if the 480 doesn't beat my 295 by a considerable margin there's no reason for me to change video card to a 480.

I want a bit more of juice than the 295 can deliver and the logical step would be a 5970 in case the 480 fails to impress. Thing is... The software sucks to be real honest about CCC, when will ATI deliver simple stuff like game profiles, i've been asking for this forever

I need AA8x for Crysis, but then i want to force AA16x in older games. Some games i want them with Vsync, some others i have to disable it (video card fails to deliver constant 60+fps) and i want all of this to be automatic when i start the game like nVidia drivers do.

I really like the 5970, don't get me wrong, but i always feel that something's missing when i use my other PC with the 4870x2 in it, this keeps me away from ATI for now

yours is more like disease thank god i go with whatever i want and really try hard to like it

[junkmonk]

nice box design, you mean. These aren't actually boxes.

thanks einstein.

[Sly Fox]

thanks einstein.

Is there a purpose to this post or are you just trying to start a flame war?

[Hu1kamania]

This is specially true for me. My 295 is faster than a 5870 at all levels, and drivers apart, (because CCC is a real PITA), if the 480 doesn't beat my 295 by a considerable margin there's no reason for me to change video card to a 480.

I want a bit more of juice than the 295 can deliver and the logical step would be a 5970 in case the 480 fails to impress. Thing is... The software sucks to be real honest about CCC, when will ATI deliver simple stuff like game profiles, i've been asking for this forever

I need AA8x for Crysis, but then i want to force AA16x in older games. Some games i want them with Vsync, some others i have to disable it (video card fails to deliver constant 60+fps) and i want all of this to be automatic when i start the game like nVidia drivers do.

I really like the 5970, don't get me wrong, but i always feel that something's missing when i use my other PC with the 4870x2 in it, this keeps me away from ATI for now

This exactly echoes my concerns with ATi. I love being able to play around with individual game settings and to be able to force certain settings when needed. I did find this app, which is similar to nHancer but it looks like it is not as refined.

[junkmonk]

Is there a purpose to this post or are you just trying to start a flame war?

please analyze his post once again, then apply this same mindset to it. kthxbye.

[Sly Fox]

please analyze his post once again, then apply this same mindset to it. kthxbye.

kthxbye? Is this World of Warcraft circa 2005? I think your internet memes are a little dated there man.

In any case, it seems pretty clear he was just joking around. I don't see why you need to try and be hostile. I doubt anybody's impressed.

[junkmonk]

kthxbye? Is this World of Warcraft circa 2005? I think your internet memes are a little dated there man.

In any case, it seems pretty clear he was just joking around. I don't see why you need to try and be hostile. I doubt anybody's impressed.

Are you the internet police? I believe that you quoted my first post trying to instigate your point of view that pointlessness and negativity are not allowed, ironically, your post was as pointless as the last. His post was a smart remark, which to be completely honest, on topic of pointlesness, I think was the most so. I came back with a smart comment because of this. Who cares? Why do you care? Stay on topic, and stop moderating because you're not a moderator.

[Sly Fox]

Are you the internet police? I believe that you quoted my first post trying to instigate your point of view that pointlessness and negativity are not allowed, ironically, your post was as pointless as the last. His post was a smart remark, which to be completely honest, on topic of pointlesness, I think was the most so. I came back with a smart comment because of this. Who cares? Why do you care? Stay on topic, and stop moderating because you're not a moderator.

I'll stop posting, but not because you want me to. Only because I don't want to take this thread any further off topic.

I just don't understand why people have to be so insulting around here these days.

[Salavat23]

The person who made those boxes tried to make them look real, but its not working out too well.

They forgot that graphics cards use GDDR5, not DDR5. That alone gives it away that they are fake.

[Dezmen]

The person who made those boxes tried to make them look real, but its not working out too well.

They forgot that graphics cards use GDDR5, not DDR5. That alone gives it away that they are fake.

Those pictures are not fake. They were posted on EVGA forum by forum Admins!

[HelixPC]

The person who made those boxes tried to make them look real, but its not working out too well.

They forgot that graphics cards use GDDR5, not DDR5. That alone gives it away that they are fake.

LOL, these are straight from evga's website, they are the official box art for the GTX 400 series.

[Piotrsama]

They forgot that graphics cards use GDDR5, not DDR5. That alone gives it away that they are fake.

At least they are better than Gigabyte's ones saying that there was an ATI 5000 series card inside

[bill_d]

LOL, these are straight from evga's website, they are the official box art for the GTX 400 series.

and without a link with the picts we where to know that how

[Chickenfeed]

@Deimos

I think you misunderstood my point. To clear things up my point is ( and was ) that no one should expect a launch card using a new API to do well with it. In other words DX11 shouldn't be a major selling feature even though it has / and will be marketed as such. What did this have to do with undervaluing the effort involved anyways There has always been a growing peroid with new APIs and their respective hardware. By the time we have enough DX11 games to care about, we should have adequete hardware to handle them. As it stands the very small amount of titles isn't reason enough. Buy a HD5 series or GT4xx because of performance in current (DX9/10) games.

They forgot that graphics cards use GDDR5, not DDR5.

All of EVGAs boxes say DDR not GDDR.


As far as true memory banwidth, It should be more in the way of 220-240GB/s on the 480 ( realistic estimation I'd say ) That would put things at 1200Hz on the low side and 1300Hz on the high side. At 1400, we'd be looking at 268GB/s on the 480, which not impossible, I'd say doubtful. Given the wider bus, they don't need memory much faster if faster at all than whats on the 58x0 cards to achieve adequete bandwidth. Unless they chose to use faster memory later on down the pipe (admist the delays), I don't expect clocks faster than 1300Hz (5.2Ghz) myself. This would also make sense given they were meant to come out in Q4, at which time faster GDDR5 wasn't widely available to my knowledge.

All that said, with 1.5gb VRAM and high bandwidth, SLI 480s should be the best 2560x1600 high IQ config for some time to come ( I have my doubts that 2 5870 eyefinity cards will do better )

[LiquidReactor]

Impossible. Die size alone cannot be bigger then g200-b3 chips so less then 470mm^2.

[illidan]

They forgot that graphics cards use GDDR5, not DDR5. That alone gives it away that they are fake.

so then, in your opinion, what's the difference between GDDR5 and DDR5?