X48 Rampage Formula Preview.

[Senator]

Credit goes to A-Grey for his effort, time & support!

Once again thanks for you help A-Grey!
Got my head round trying lower volts! I actually didn't expect to get any lower but surprise, surprise, you were right:



My new stable BIOS settings:

Ai Overclock Tuner [Manual]
CPU Ratio Setting [9.5]
FSB Strap to North Bridge [Auto]
FSB Frequency [455MHz]
PCIE Frequency [110MHz]
DRAM Frequency [1213MHz]
DRAM Command Rate [2N]
DRAM CLK Skew on Channel A/B [Auto]
DRAM TimingControl [Auto]
DRAM Static Read Control [Disabled]
Ai Clock Twister [Lighter]
Ai Transaction Booster [Manual]
Common Performance Level [06]
Pull-In of CH A/B all disabled
CPU Voltage [1.46250V]
CPU PLL Voltage [1.52V]
North Bridge Voltage [1.27V]
DRAM Voltage [1.86V]
FSB Termination Voltage [1.40V]
South Bridge Voltage [1.05V]
SB 1.5V Voltage [1.50V]
Loadline Calibration [Enabled]
CPU GTL Voltage Reference [0.63X]
NB GTL Voltage Reference [0.67X]
DRAM Controller Voltage REF [Auto]
DRAM Channel A/B Voltage REF [Auto]
CPU Spread Spectrum [Disabled]
PCIE Spread Spectrum [Disabled]
CPU Clock Skew [Delay 500ps]
NB Clock Skew [Delay 400ps]

Just to get things straight, I was stable at 455FSB already. I am trying to go higer! Ultimate goal I would like to attain is 9.5x474=4502MHz.

I would appreciate any help to point me in the right direction from here. I did try to increase the Clock Skews along with an increase in FSB, but that didn't show any result.

[Alien Grey]

Credit goes to A-Grey for his effort, time & support!

Once again thanks for you help A-Grey!
Got my head round trying lower volts! I actually didn't expect to get any lower but surprise, surprise, you were right:



My new stable BIOS settings:

Ai Overclock Tuner [Manual]
CPU Ratio Setting [9.5]
FSB Strap to North Bridge [Auto]
FSB Frequency [455MHz]
PCIE Frequency [110MHz]
DRAM Frequency [1213MHz]
DRAM Command Rate [2N]
DRAM CLK Skew on Channel A/B [Auto]
DRAM TimingControl [Auto]
DRAM Static Read Control [Disabled]
Ai Clock Twister [Lighter]
Ai Transaction Booster [Manual]
Common Performance Level [06]
Pull-In of CH A/B all disabled
CPU Voltage [1.46250V]
CPU PLL Voltage [1.52V]
North Bridge Voltage [1.27V]
DRAM Voltage [1.86V]
FSB Termination Voltage [1.40V]
South Bridge Voltage [1.05V]
SB 1.5V Voltage [1.50V]
Loadline Calibration [Enabled]
CPU GTL Voltage Reference [0.63X]
NB GTL Voltage Reference [0.67X]
DRAM Controller Voltage REF [Auto]
DRAM Channel A/B Voltage REF [Auto]
CPU Spread Spectrum [Disabled]
PCIE Spread Spectrum [Disabled]
CPU Clock Skew [Delay 500ps]
NB Clock Skew [Delay 400ps]

Just to get things straight, I was stable at 455FSB already. I am trying to go higer! Ultimate goal I would like to attain is 9.5x474=4502MHz.

I would appreciate any help to point me in the right direction from here. I did try to increase the Clock Skews along with an increase in FSB, but that didn't show any result.

The answer is that you need the new BIOS as bad as we do.


Look at the NB Voltage. That makes me wonder how much voltage we would need for FSB 500MHz if ASUS releases the magical BIOS. Lower than 1.5V or maybe lower than 1.45V.

[Senator]

Well that sad to hear. One thing I did notice though, is that I have lost about 100 to 150MB/s on the Read Bandwidth switching from Strong to Lighter. Which wasn't the case at first.

I did manage to get it stable at 460FSB, at 465 it wasn't stable anymore. I can't remember the exact settings, since the voltage increase from 455 was more than 2 notches. Thats why I just went back to 455.
After decreasing all my volts so substantially, I really thought I was coming to terms with the board & ready to hit the 4.5GHz mark. Which really is a pity since I've seen lots of other boards doing that high!

Well, I think that I'll have to make do with my result. Which really isn't that bad at all.
To be honest I really don't have my hopes up about a new BIOS since it's been a year now since the 0902 release.

[Alien Grey]

Well that sad to hear. One thing I did notice though, is that I have lost about 100 to 150MB/s on the Read Bandwidth switching from Strong to Lighter. Which wasn't the case at first.

I did manage to get it stable at 460FSB, at 465 it wasn't stable anymore. I can't remember the exact settings, since the voltage increase from 455 was more than 2 notches. Thats why I just went back to 455.
After decreasing all my volts so substantially, I really thought I was coming to terms with the board & ready to hit the 4.5GHz mark. Which really is a pity since I've seen lots of other boards doing that high!

Well, I think that I'll have to make do with my result. Which really isn't that bad at all.
To be honest I really don't have my hopes up about a new BIOS since it's been a year now since the 0902 release.

If you want to overclock more than FSB 460MHz you can't have it stable anymore or you're going to have to increase the voltage a lot and step down on the clock skew.


I still believe in a new better BIOS for the ASUS Rampage Formula to make it a better overclocking board.

[leo27]

One thing i wanna know is you guys are hitting fsb's of 450+ with a vNB of like 1.25ish, is there any way for me to reduce my vNB i'm at 1.41 bios (about 1.42 real) for FSB of 425MHZ that doesn't sound right.

Here's my settings for reference (50 pass LinX, LargeFFT's, Blend+UT2004 rock stable)

Ai Overclock Tuner [Manual]
OC From CPU Level Up [Auto]
CPU Ratio Setting [08.0]
FSB Strap to North Bridge [400]
FSB Frequency [425]
PCIE Frequency [103]

DRAM Frequency [DDR2-850MHz]
DRAM Command Rate [2N]
DRAM CMD Skew on Channal A [Greyed Out]
DRAM CMD Skew on Channal B [Greyed Out]
DRAM CLK Skew on Channal A [Auto]
DRAM CLK Skew on Channal B [Auto]

DRAM Static Read Control [Enabled]
Ai Clock Twister [Stronger]
Ai Transaction Booster [7]

CPU Voltage [1.41250v]
CPU PLL Voltage [1.50v]
North Bridge Voltage [1.41v]
DRAM Voltage [1.84v]
FSB Termination Voltage [1.36v]
South Bridge Voltage [1.05v]
SB 1,5V Voltage [1.50v]
Loadline Calibration [Enabled]
CPU GTL Voltage Reference [0.65x]
NB GTL Voltage Reference [0.67x]
DRAM Controller Voltage REF [AUTO]
DRAM Channel A Voltage REF [AUTO]
DRAM Channel B Voltage REF [AUTO]

CPU Spread Spectrum [Disabled]
PCIE Spred Spectrum [Disabled]
Cpu Clock Skew [Delay 200ps]
NB Clock Skew [Delay 100ps]

So i guess either i have a real crappy NB, AI clock twister stronger is the culprit or ??

[Alien Grey]

One thing i wanna know is you guys are hitting fsb's of 450+ with a vNB of like 1.25ish, is there any way for me to reduce my vNB i'm at 1.41 bios (about 1.42 real) for FSB of 425MHZ that doesn't sound right.

Here's my settings for reference (50 pass LinX, LargeFFT's, Blend+UT2004 rock stable)

Ai Overclock Tuner [Manual]
OC From CPU Level Up [Auto]
CPU Ratio Setting [08.0]
FSB Strap to North Bridge [400]
FSB Frequency [425]
PCIE Frequency [103]

DRAM Frequency [DDR2-850MHz]
DRAM Command Rate [2N]
DRAM CMD Skew on Channal A [Greyed Out]
DRAM CMD Skew on Channal B [Greyed Out]
DRAM CLK Skew on Channal A [Auto]
DRAM CLK Skew on Channal B [Auto]

DRAM Static Read Control [Enabled]
Ai Clock Twister [Stronger]
Ai Transaction Booster [7]

CPU Voltage [1.41250v]
CPU PLL Voltage [1.50v]
North Bridge Voltage [1.41v]
DRAM Voltage [1.84v]
FSB Termination Voltage [1.36v]
South Bridge Voltage [1.05v]
SB 1,5V Voltage [1.50v]
Loadline Calibration [Enabled]
CPU GTL Voltage Reference [0.65x]
NB GTL Voltage Reference [0.67x]
DRAM Controller Voltage REF [AUTO]
DRAM Channel A Voltage REF [AUTO]
DRAM Channel B Voltage REF [AUTO]

CPU Spread Spectrum [Disabled]
PCIE Spred Spectrum [Disabled]
Cpu Clock Skew [Delay 200ps]
NB Clock Skew [Delay 100ps]

So i guess either i have a real crappy NB, AI clock twister stronger is the culprit or ??

Try with Ai Clock Twister Lighter and DRAM Static Read Disabled. If you can get that stable with lower NB Voltage than you might consider to buy some PC2-9600 memory to have better bandwidth or make the choice to use your old memory and loose bandwidth or go back to Ai Clock Twister Stronger and DRAM Static Read Enabled.

[Senator]

I would like to add that I used to have an E6600 (I know its not a Quad) with G.Skill 6400CL4D-2GBHZ. Back then I decided to go for higher FSB, therefore I loosend timings from 4-4-4-12 850MHz to 5-5-5-15 1081MHz. CPU was 8x466FSB=3.738GHz with 1.63vCore. I had it running like that for a year, sold it to a friend & its still running strong!
I don't know what your temps are like, since I'm on watercooling. With 1.63vCore I was getting around 66°C running prime95. So if your temps are fine & you are comfortable using hight volts, then go for it. The 65nm Cores scale very well with volts.

A-Grey, thanks for pointing me in the right direction. On top of that I found a quote from mikeyakame post earlier along this thread regarding clock skew:

It takes time to get used to your particular hardware, and pay attention to the small details...how long it takes to POST, miniscule delays between BIOS POST codes on the LCD Poster, changes in OS response, even setup options being sluggish to select. There are so many things you can pick up on that believe it or not happen because of clock jitter and deviations. There will be FSB frequencies where you can have the bios and system tuned to respond amazingly fast, and others where no matter how hard you try the system is hit and miss. When this happens just go up or down a few mhz on FSB and try again, you might find a frequency that works better for your settings. Like I said up or down doesn't matter, BCLK drives FSB and its too high of a reference clock frequency so even going +-1mhz sometimes can completely destabilize settings you worked on for days to get right. Keep that in mind.
[....]
Let me add one final concept to this post.
If you are highly experienced with fine tuning the bios settings and have a good understanding of the AGTL+ FSB design concept and how the CPU<->MCH<->DRAM procedure works at a low level, and you don't mind nuking a few OS installs in the process, then the following might interest you
With the precise balance of CPU Clock Skew, NB Clock Skew, PL phase pull-ins, GTL Refs, DRAM CTL Ref, DRAM secondary/tertiary timings and Vnb you can further tighten Performance Level beyond the point that is unpostable
Thats the key to tightening PL beyond the physical divider limit you reach in most conditions. Ie if PL=7 is limit for 12:10 divider at 500FSB, then PL=6 and even tighter is possible if you can balance the whole system on a pin, ie the timing of all strobes from end to end is near PERFECTION!
it's possible without a multi channel oscilloscope / logic analyzer, though you'd need a lot of patience,a good spare week or two to get it right, and a good OS ghost image to restore everytime you nuke it from being slightly wrong.

So I went right to it and tried to lower my skew delay step by step. Since I've been playing around with my system quite frequently later I can tell every little change I make. Its seems that I've found a good setting, as my systems is more responsive now. I am using CPU clock skew 200ps & NB clock skew 100ps.
I did have to increase vNB & vFSBT by one step, which I more than gladly take into account for having a snappier system.

[leo27]

@A-Grey
Thanks for confirming that the culprit is AI CLock Twister. Also can you confirm that disabling DRAM Static Read results in an increase of performance

[Alien Grey]

@A-Grey
Thanks for confirming that the culprit is AI CLock Twister. Also can you confirm that disabling DRAM Static Read results in an increase of performance

Yes, Ai Clock Twister Lighter and DRAM Static Read Disabled gives me an increase of50Mb/s. I don't know if this is always like that if you use FSB Strap to North Bridge 400MHz but with divider 3/4 it is.

[Alien Grey]

I've made two screenshots to compare my old settings with my new settings in EVEREST. It isn't much better. Only 10Mb/s but the voltage is lower and that's more important than better bandwidth because I believe that this is the proof that a stable FSB 500MHz should be possible with our ASUS Rampage Formula with a new BIOS.



Q9650@4.05GHz - DDR 1199MHz - tRD 6 - Ai Clock Twister Moderate - tREF 16383T






Q9650@4.05GHz - DDR 1199MHz - tRD 6 - Ai Clock Twister Lighter - tREF 16383T






My favourite stress test. A few hours Prime95 and Unreal Tournament 2004 together to check stability with the new settings.

[DaLiu]

So 0902 bios is the best one till now?

[OLDcomer]

So 0902 bios is the best one till now?

It depends. For my system, 0802 is best. It gives me the highest stable fsb and the highest fsb for benches (510MHz).

[Alien Grey]

My final thoughts about BIOS 0902 is that I can clock it to FSB 450MHz with stock voltage and the increase in voltage you've got to use to clock it any higher is ridiculous.

The BIOS fixes the DDR >1200MHz and tRD problem but fails to satisfy me because of the FSB wall at FSB >450MHz that I think ASUS creates by not changing the strap at FSB above 450MHz.

[Antineutrino]

Hi A-Grey!
How did you manage to boot at PL6 with that high FSB?
My system cannot POST with PL lower than 7 at 460 Mhz even if I use vNB insanely high...

Does the PL also depend on what RAM I'm using or only STRAP?
Mine is 2x2GB G.Skill 4GBPI 8800 that can reach 1150-1160 stable.
I use a strap of 333 with DRAM static disabled and AI Clock Twister lighter.
I suppose that using a 400 Mhz STRAP will allow to POST at PL6 but will it be limited also by RAM?

Thank You!

[Alien Grey]

Using tRD 6 is only possible with the 400MHz strap and that is going to limit your FSB to 430-435MHz if you can't run your memory stable at a higher frequency than DDR 1150-1160MHz.

[Alien Grey]

The new BIOS has arrived today.


I've tried to flash it with ASUS EZ Flash II but the file size doesn't match. The BIOS is named Rampage-ASUS-Extreme-0002.rom.

I've already mailed back to ASUS and I've got a quick reply back not to flash it with this BIOS. They're are going to fix this later.


I think that what they are trying to do is make a BIOS that can work on both boards, the ASUS Rampage Formula and the ASUS Rampage Extreme, so they only have to work on one BIOS to fix the BIOS problems. I could be wrong though and it's just another mistake and they updated the wrong BIOS.

[SoLoR]

can you please share it anyway? in PM if possible, so people wont try to flash it... but i want to check if there are any new options, like TREF.

[Alien Grey]

I'll do that for you.


Didn't you get a new GTX295 from ASUS for your 9800GX2 that was broken and still in warranty? Or wasn't it you.

Anyway check out the Nvidia section on XS and watch how EVGA tries to screw someone that has to RMA his 9800GX2.

[SoLoR]

I'll do that for you.


Didn't you get a new GTX295 from ASUS for your 9800GX2 that was broken and still in warranty? Or wasn't it you.

Anyway check out the Nvidia section on XS and watch how EVGA tries to screw someone that has to RMA his 9800GX2.

ye i was and ill check. About bios, its totaly broken, not even tools can open it so i think they forgot to include one module. Lets hope they fix it today! It will look like totaly new mobo with bios versions in range of 000X

[Alien Grey]

ye i was and ill check. About bios, its totaly broken, not even tools can open it so i think they forgot to include one module. Lets hope they fix it today! It will look like totaly new mobo with bios versions in range of 000X

A fresh start with the 000X BIOS revisions.

[OLDcomer]

I hope this new BIOS to be successful at high fsb clocks.
I've got a picture with 20 LinX's passes at 8.5x500 (0802 bios) but didn't make it at 9x500 (3 passes only).

[Antineutrino]

Great news A-Grey!!!!

I'm really excited to try this new extreme bios!!!!

Yuppie!!!

[Antineutrino]

By the way yesterday I tried to play a bit with Clock Skews...

CPU Ratio Setting [09.0]
FSB Strap to North Bridge [400]
FSB Frequency [465]

Cpu Clock Skew [Delay 400ps]
NB Clock Skew [Delay 300ps]

With these settings I reached Q9650@4185 Mhz... Rock solid tested by LinX 50 Passes.

[SoLoR]

OK i made bios 0002 bios work however i dont know if i would flash it, since i dont want to RMA my mobo once again... thing is you can pad it with 00 to 1fffffH (2MB) and you can flash it... it seems like it have some new functions like dual bios (WTF?!) and some other things... ill pop up few screens soon...


EDIT: you cant flash it anyway, that last missing part is bootblock... but im just in process of making few screens of options!

EDIT2: correction, bootblock is there, extended bootblock is not ;( i wonder if i could just copy it from 0902 i would seriously need eeprom programer at home so i could experiment if flash would go wrong...

[SoLoR]

Here is galery of extreme tweaker menu and dual bios function.

edit: you also see option DRAM Refresh Period aka TREF?! finaly, options are light/lighter/moderate/strong/stronger.... now just give bios we can flash ;( EBB from 0902 does not work, there should be at least checksums also corrected, but i seriously dont want to brick mobo with to much of experimenting so ill just wait but my fingers are itching....

edit2: skews are up to 1500ps in steps of 100. If anyone wants to know more about certain option just ask...