The GT300/Fermi Thread - Part 2!

[Sam_oslo]

Hardly ATIs fault the opposition has provided nothing



Lol what? When you're 6 months late with limited availability, and with the new heat and power rumors going around, I'd hardly call those numbers a winner for anyone but the most diehard fans. 6 months is an eternity for technology.

I didn't say anything about heat or power usage, it is your words. I said: "nVidia doesn't have to beat ATi with more than ~10-20% all over the line up to make a success out of Fermi". What would 6 mounts have to say about this, in your opinion? should be 200% better and why?

[Sam_oslo]

If 300W rumours are true then GTX480 will have to compete with 5970...

I believe power usage can play a big role, but it will only make sense compared to the performance. The heat is not a biggy, it can be solved with a good cooler.
I'm a OCer, you know, and I can assure you, there is not such a thing as a hot component, there is only bad cooling solutions. But both remains to be seen yet, and maybe we get a cool and power effective Fermi too?

EDIT:
Oops soowy double post, it was meant to be an edit to the last one.

[Sam_oslo]

..

If it's only 10-20% faster then Nvidia is in trouble. That's well within reach of the 1Ghz 5870 cards that are being released and will probably be available in volume before Fermi is even released.

It's not like last gen where 4890 was released much later and still couldn't match a 285. Instead you'd have a situation where the top single GPU NV card is matched in performance by something that came out before it did. That would be much worse then last gen for NV.

And that's just talking partner OCed 5870s that we already know are coming out. ATI could start binning or do a respin and introduce even faster 5890s.


....

I have already said it in 2 posts back:

..
If GTX 480 is ~10-20% better than 5870 then nVidia has a winner, for sure, even after 6 mounts. Unless ATi can release a new/refresh card to match/beat it at the launch time.

[zerazax]

I didn't say anything about heat or power usage, it is your words. I said: "nVidia doesn't have to beat ATi with more than ~10-20% all over the line up to make a success out of Fermi". What would 6 mounts have to say about this, in your opinion? should be 200% better and why?

Success? Based on what? Pure performance?

If I made a GPU that netted me a $15 profit while drawing 400w and heats up my coffee everyday, but is 20-30% faster than the 5970, but was half a year late and is in extremely limited numbers, is that a success? Okay that was an extreme example but my point is: You can't look at performance numbers in a vacuum and call the card a success.

Not to mention that if new rumors are true and the 480 is indeed 480sps instead of a full 512, then that's a failure to meet your own set requirements.

Furthermore, if the power/tdp numbers are true, it's going up against 5970s (don't bother rehashing 2v1 gpus, we are talking price and power figures since those are objective categorization points)

"Just" 10-20% (overall, which remains to be seen) after 6 months is dissapointing. It's not a flop like R600 (where it was slower) or NV30, but consider that GT200 vs RV770 had similar performance deltas but GT200 was almost a month earlier.

[thatdude90210]

The latest PC perspective podcast (~48min mark), Ryan Shrout says "the manufacturability of these chips is pathetic," and the yield is about 10-20% at best.

[Piotrsama]

The latest PC perspective podcast (~48min mark), Ryan Shrout says "the manufacturability of these chips is pathetic," and the yield is about 10-20% at best.

Somebody should really tell the guys at PcPer to use a video tech that allows to skip to the middle of the video without having to wait for it to buffer those 40+ minutes
Or it's my PC?

[thatdude90210]

Somebody should really tell the guys at PcPer to use a video tech that allows to skip to the middle of the video without having to wait for it to buffer those 40+ minutes
Or it's my PC?

Their player is wacky, at least on Firefox for me. Only way to move around is to just download the mp3.

[Sam_oslo]

Success? Based on what? Pure performance?

If I made a GPU that netted me a $15 profit while drawing 400w and heats up my coffee everyday, but is 20-30% faster than the 5970, but was half a year late and is in extremely limited numbers, is that a success? Okay that was an extreme example but my point is: You can't look at performance numbers in a vacuum and call the card a success.

Not to mention that if new rumors are true and the 480 is indeed 480sps instead of a full 512, then that's a failure to meet your own set requirements.

Furthermore, if the power/tdp numbers are true, it's going up against 5970s (don't bother rehashing 2v1 gpus, we are talking price and power figures since those are objective categorization points)

"Just" 10-20% (overall, which remains to be seen) after 6 months is dissapointing. It's not a flop like R600 (where it was slower) or NV30, but consider that GT200 vs RV770 had similar performance deltas but GT200 was almost a month earlier.

You are repeating many rumors that nobody knows if they are true or not, yet.

You say 20% is disappointing after 6 months, but 20% lead would be the best business scenario for nVidia and make many people (with sans for high-end GPU) happy too.
You are avoiding to tel if it should be 200% better or what to satisfy you? and what those 6 mounts got to do with performance crown of the best performing GPU av the time?

[zerazax]

You are repeating many rumors that nobody knows if they are true or not, yet.

You say 20% is disappointing after 6 months, but 20% lead would be the best business scenario for nVidia and make many people (with sans for high-end GPU) happy too.
You are avoiding to tel if it should be 200% better or what to satisfy you? and what those 6 mounts got to do with performance crown of the best performing GPU av the time?

And yet somehow you can declare it a success going off rumors?

25%+ in real world gaming IMO. At nearly 7 months out, we'd be talking about refresh performance, not baseline

[LesGrossman]

You say 20% is disappointing after 6 months, but 20% lead would be the best business scenario for nVidia and make many people (with sans for high-end GPU) happy too.

Going from the rumors, but i'm sorry what lead? There's a thing called 5970. why are you comparing GTX480 with a chip that is almost half the size and have almost half the TDP?
Sucess for nVidia? Right!

Most of us won't need a double-GPU in this round

Off course not! Nvidia can't do it anytime soon why would nvidia fanboys need it

[Macadamia]

Hah, nVidia using Heaven 1.1 (30% more performance in culling, aka Dragon parts of the benchmarks) while ATI uses Heaven 1.0!


It's like Nehalem and Cinebench R10 "R11" dll swap all over again!

[Migi06]

Hah, nVidia using Heaven 1.1 (30% more performance in culling, aka Dragon parts of the benchmarks) while ATI uses Heaven 1.0!


It's like Nehalem and Cinebench R10 "R11" dll swap all over again!

Nvidia real demo run vs Nvidia PR slide (Hint. Check 60-120 sec):

[Solus Corvus]

But we already know its performance so there's no need to wait. We know Fermi does Tessellation well. The guy in the video even says it's what sets them apart from the competition. This is exactly what Charlie said. He also said the GTX480 is only 0-5% faster than the 5870. He's been right for months now, so I'm going by his word.

Like I said, there's no reason to buy this card unless you're a die-hard Nvidia fan or use GPGPU apps.

I'm not some knee-jerk Charlie hater like some of the people around here. I realize that he sometimes gets thing right and sometimes wrong. But I'm not just going to take his word on it. Doing so would be foolish, imo. We don't know about any of the test details of the numbers Charlie gave, even if they are right.

nVidia doesn't have to beat ATi with more than ~10-20% all over the line up to make a success out of Fermi. Don't forget that the 5870 with that hefting price tag (comperad to 5850), is only ~10-20% better than 5850.

If GTX 480 is ~10-20% better than 5870 then nVidia has a winner, for sure, even after 6 mounts. Unless ATi can release a new/refresh card to match/beat it at the launch time.

If it's only 10-20% faster then Nvidia is in trouble. That's well within reach of the 1Ghz 5870 cards that are being released and will probably be available in volume before Fermi is even released.

It's not like last gen where 4890 was released much later and still couldn't match a 285. Instead you'd have a situation where the top single GPU NV card is matched in performance by something that came out before it did. That would be much worse then last gen for NV.

And that's just talking partner OCed 5870s that we already know are coming out. ATI could start binning or do a respin and introduce even faster 5890s.

The problem is that it looks like it will be 20% better AT MOST.So depending on the game/benchmark/settings it will be like 0-20%.

In Unigine there appear to be sequences where the 480 is ~60% faster then a 5870. That is a very significant lead. But Unigine Heaven is a highly contrived scenario with lots of tessellation and not much shaders. Performance in more tess/shader balanced scenarios remains to be seen, not to mention realistic AA/AF settings.