The GT300/Fermi Thread - Part 2!

[LesGrossman]

They have no stock of an... unreleased product, that must be a world's first

I think you need to talk with Luka_Aveiro about the nervous breakdown that you both had. Talking always helps.

[Sam_oslo]

since when is a 295 faster than a 5870.... you just cant make that generalisation. it gives the impression a 295 beats the 5870...

no 295 can beat my 5870 OCFTW take your bird out slap you about card....

We shouldn't compare 5870 with GTX 295. these are 2 different generations, after all.

Even if GTX 295 could match the performance of 5870, it will be a looser in heat, power usage. Don't mention the DX11 and ...., there is no doubt that 5870 is much better, and it is the way it spoused to be with a new generation specially these with less nm cards

[saaya]

This what you have been doing mostly. Dismiss, judge, and laugh of everything you don't have the ability comprehend or understand.

It is not a good idea to make fun of others meanings and ideas generally. It is a good idea to show respect for others ideas and meanings, specially when we are talking about a unreleased product with all those unknown factors around it.

You are one of those with biggest baseless claims in this thread, so I'm not surprised that you are reacting to my post. But this kind of reactions just proves the point in my previews post.

oh i think i understand you very well, but tbh, i couldnt care less why you post those hilarious comments

big baseless claims... like what?

Surprise surprise.

pickle surprise?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgWn7zbgxZ4

did you guys see the tsmc yield news from digitimes?
0.1-0.3 errors per square inch? fermi = ~ 1square inch...
so every 3-10 fermi chips there is one error? then yields would be 70%+ for fermi and 90% for rv870... weird huh? i wonder if he just made that number up or if he misunderstood it... maybe 0.1-0.3 errors per square millimeter?
that would mean 2-8 errors per fermi chip, on average... and around 1-3 errors per rv870 chip on average... nah thats too much, right?

weird...

[Jowy Atreides]

They have no stock of an... unreleased product, that must be a world's first

At least you admit to trolling.

[FischOderAal]

We shouldn't compare 5870 with GTX 295. these are 2 different generations, after all.

They are on the market at the same time, 'nuff said.

pickle surprise?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgWn7zbgxZ4

Jesus, what the...

[BenchZowner]

I think you need to talk with Luka_Aveiro about the nervous breakdown that you both had. Talking always helps.

Wow, you're a smart guy
Keep contributing

[Sam_oslo]

They are on the market at the same time, 'nuff said.



Jesus, what the...

LOL, that's because the replacement is delayed, and that's why we are here. But last generation is usually a kind of hot and power hungry crap compared to the new one, specially when a die shrink separates them, 'nuff said' .

[flippin_waffles]

They have no stock of an... unreleased product, that must be a world's first

[img][/img]

Where the **** did you get the picture of my son and who the **** gave you permission to plaster it on the internet???


[edit]

Just kidding. But I hope I made my point. It should be illegal to do that siht, unless of course he's your son!

[annihilat0r]

Where the **** did you get the picture of my son and who the **** gave you permission to plaster it on the internet???


[edit]

Just kidding. But I hope I made my point. It should be illegal to do that siht, unless of course he's your son!

and I was about to BRACE FOR EPIC....

[Kej]

(snip)
did you guys see the tsmc yield news from digitimes?
0.1-0.3 errors per square inch? fermi = ~ 1square inch...
so every 3-10 fermi chips there is one error? then yields would be 70%+ for fermi and 90% for rv870... weird huh? i wonder if he just made that number up or if he misunderstood it... maybe 0.1-0.3 errors per square millimeter?
that would mean 2-8 errors per fermi chip, on average... and around 1-3 errors per rv870 chip on average... nah thats too much, right?

weird...

It could mean square centimeters......
Linky

[jmke]

and thanks for proving my point by linking to carmack spending time to get (how many years old?) doomI running on a 5" screen mobile phone instead of cooking up a crysis eye candy killer

your point was that he doesn't know how to code efficiently

his genius is completely wasted on getting "ok-good" graphics on consoles... im not even sure hes good at that, hes good at pushing graphics to the limits, not on getting the job done with the least possible resources...

my link disproves your point;

[zalbard]

$299 for GTX 470
$399 for GTX 480
$499 for double GF100

These prices wil become reality if ATi has an existing or new/refresh card to match/beat the Fermi-lineup at launch. Otherwise you can add about $100 to $200 from bottom to top, would I suggest.

Yeah, right, so a card that is supposed to be much more expensive to make than 5970 and that is expected to be faster as well will be $200 faster?
Seriously, don't get your hopes high, everyone and their grandmother knows that Fermi will not come cheap.

what games, besides Crysis&CrysisWH, don't run at 60+ at 1920x1200 4xAA/16xAF with HD 5970 ?

Some games with heavy texture mods (and some aero sims I think). But you have a point, no doubt.

GTX480 = 512SP, 650MHz core/1350 shader, 5870 = -10%~+15% (very low availability. For reviewers and PR) $599.99
GTX470 = 480SP, 675MHz core/1450 shader, 5850 = +15~+20% (Better avail. Most widely sold over GTX480) $449.99

Just guesses!

No way GTX470 is going to be higher clocked than GTX480, just look at 5870 and 5850...

wtf?

http://www.semiaccurate.com/2010/02/...e-fermin-card/

ROFL! Hilarious!

rage is a console engine

More like a multiplatform one, like all of them these days.
And Carmack promised that PC gamers won't be disappointed as usually!

700+ MHZ frecuency of the core is a myth..
GEFORCE GTX 480 will have 48 ROP not to "have more than Ati " but to compensate lower GPU frecuency. And the power consumption will not be so bad as predicted.
625-650 core frecuency more reality.

Source or it didn't happen...

meaning it will be made to run on consoles first, PCs later. Yet another console conversion.

Any proof? I am hoping for a simultaneous launch. ID and Bethesda haven't failed to satisfy before.

Anyone know the length of the 480?
Id hate to buy a case it doesn't fit in..

From the first pics it seems to be as long or a bit shorter than 295.

We shouldn't compare 5870 with GTX 295. these are 2 different generations, after all.

Why not? They are both for sale right now, and every person interested in buying a graphics card right now should consider all options. GFX295 isn't bad at all, especially if you're a fan of PhysX, CUDA, 3D or crunching. Or an ATI driver hater...

Wow, you're a smart guy
Keep contributing

Are you on a misson to annoy certain posters or something? This is all I see you doing in this thread...

[BenchZowner]

Are you on a misson to annoy certain posters or something? This is all I see you doing in this thread...

No, I'm only laughing at stupid (?) people posting hilarious stuff ( "GTX 470 performing better than the GTX 480" is the best until now )

[weston]

yes, but depending on yields it kinda doesnt matter anymore...

rv870 = 100% yields
150/150 = 25us$

GF100 = 33% yields
33/100 = 100us$

GF100 = 50% yields
50/100 = 70us$

GF100 = 66% yields
66/100 = 53us$

at 50% yields the difference in chip cost is already acceptable... 50$ isnt much, and consiering that fermi is 50% bigger and SHOULD be at least 20% faster, nvidia can easily charge 50$ more for fermi than an rv870 part... so that means if fermi hits 50% yields AND perf is 20% better or even more, nvidia will make as much money selling GF100 as ati does selling rv870...

nvidia clearly never aimed for high yields with fermi, they knew it wouldnt be good, but they didnt expect the claimed single digit yields, which is a huge deal breaker for them...

where did you get your pricing on gpu dies? each wafer can fit roughly 94 dies and costs $5000. if fermi get's 40% yield it's $131/gpu. at a similar defect rate, ati would get roughly 70% yield which is about $48/gpu. Add in extra cost for PCB of fermi needing more memory chips, wider bus, more connections, etc...you end up with well over $100 more per complete card.

http://www.brightsideofnews.com/prin...-analysis.aspx

[Sam_oslo]

Yeah, right, so a card that is supposed to be much more expensive to make than 5970 and that is expected to be faster as well will be $200 faster?
Seriously, don't get your hopes high, everyone and their grandmother knows that Fermi will not come cheap.

...

If the price was up to the producers, a GPU would cos 5 times more, because these guys are "businessmen" and never get enough.
The price is more impacted by the competition then the production-cost or producer-desires. It is all based on a simple rule, demand and availability. A competing ATi card will reduce the demand and price, it is a simple rule that apply to all products.

A good example on how this works:
ATi had no competition for 5x-series. You take a look at the 5790-prices and compare it to 4870x2-launch price and tell me why it is so much more?

[zalbard]

A good example on how this works:
ATi had no competition for 5x-series. You take a look at the 5790-prices and compare it to 4870x2-launch price and tell me why it is so much more?

$50 difference isn't too much... $599 MRSP vs $549 MRSP.



You're, on the other hand, proposing ground breaking pricing.

[ElSel10]

Source or it didn't happen...

48 ROPs has been known for a while now. And clock speeds from 600-650MHz is very reasonable.

[Sam_oslo]

$50 difference isn't too much... $599 MRSP vs $549 MRSP.

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn79/zalbard/4870x2.jpg[/IMG]

You're, on the other hand, proposing ground breaking pricing.

I've been proposing the top dog for $499 (if ATi puts up competition), so actually I'm proposing the same difference, but the opposite way.

[insurgent]

You take a look at the 5790-prices and compare it to 4870x2-launch price and tell me why it is so much more?

Because there's no competition atm, and whichever company has the advantage it's the consumers that always get screwed, usually willingly though

[Iconyu]

I've been proposing the top dog for $499 (if ATi puts up competition), so actually I'm proposing the same difference, but the opposite way.

Ram prices are higher, and the cores cost more to make. The price will drop, but only if ATI are forced to do so, why drop they price when they aren't even overstocked?

[behrouz]

News here :

http://vr-zone.com/articles/nvidia-l...mate/8496.html

The price rumours pegged the Geforce GTX 470 at $499, with the GTX 480 rumours varying between $599 and $679.

[Olivon]

News here :

http://vr-zone.com/articles/nvidia-l...mate/8496.html

Read more carefully behrouz

This 's no newz at all, this article just says that the prices you have given are totally illegitimate :

"NVIDIA and our launch partners have not released pricing or pre-order information yet. Any Web sites claiming to be taking pre-orders should not be considered legitimate."

[Sam_oslo]

Because there's no competition atm, and whichever company has the advantage it's the consumers that always get screwed, usually willingly though

Exactly, and they have a tendency to get extra greedy without a competition.

ATi kept the supply of 5x-series just under the marked demand, because there was no competing nVidia GPU that could fill the vacuum for high-end GPU. ATi had the opportunity (and all those good reasons, including bad yield ) to keep the supply at the desired level for marketing-department.
Therefore the real retail-prices ended up way over MRSP. I was considering to get a 5970 at that time, but couldn't find anything under $700 in stock for a long while.

[Sn0wm@n]

did you guys see the tsmc yield news from digitimes?
0.1-0.3 errors per square inch? fermi = ~ 1square inch...
so every 3-10 fermi chips there is one error? then yields would be 70%+ for fermi and 90% for rv870... weird huh? i wonder if he just made that number up or if he misunderstood it... maybe 0.1-0.3 errors per square millimeter?
that would mean 2-8 errors per fermi chip, on average... and around 1-3 errors per rv870 chip on average... nah thats too much, right?

weird...

ati did have alot of problem at first.... maybe it is possible that its the later.... 2-8 error per fermi chips...


id like to have real numbers on those.. but nvidia will never release those info

[FischOderAal]

ATi had no competition for 5x-series. You take a look at the 5790-prices and compare it to 4870x2-launch price and tell me why it is so much more?

A 40 nm wafer is more expensive than a 55 nm wafer, hence the pricing difference.