The GT300/Fermi Thread - Part 2!

[trinibwoy]

If ATi's strategy was as good as the fanboys here claim it to be, why has it clearly failed in terms of profits and market share gains?

It's not an instantaneous effect, it takes time for an advantage to impact market share. However, 6 months is nothing in the grand scheme of things and it always amuses me when people get all hot and bothered over short term swings in momentum. AMD has to keep this going for quite a while longer to make a big dent in the market.

[Sn0wm@n]

i see a GTX480 ultra rare edition with some fancy cooler retailing for 1200$ on ebay soon ..... maybe it will even have a unicorn sticker on?????

[kadozer]

lol talk about foot in mouth

[ElSel10]

Although, Charlie has been right a few times(all related to the same thing), doesn't make him the most accurate guy. Your making it sounds like charlie hasn't been wrong before. Charlie has been wrong on a few things, the most recent being NV cancels big bang MSI motherboard or oakridge project being canceled. Or Nvidia being in trouble for the last two quarters for having nothing to counter 5xxx.

He also claimed the high end Fermi part had been castrated to 448 SPs.

[trinibwoy]

^ How do we know that's not the case? I haven't seen any reliable sources stating the GTX 480 will have 512 SPs.

[kadozer]

Yes 512 sps has only been stated by Fudzilla.

[Olivon]

^ How do we know that's not the case? I haven't seen any reliable sources stating the GTX 480 will have 512 SPs.

GF100 White paper on nVidia site, page 12

[ElSel10]

^ How do we know that's not the case? I haven't seen any reliable sources stating the GTX 480 will have 512 SPs.

Yes 512 sps has only been stated by Fudzilla.

Wrong. Nvidia explicitly unveiled the GF100 architecture to have 512 SPs at the Deep Dive event.

GF100 White paper on nVidia site, page 12

[trinibwoy]

GF100 White paper on nVidia site, page 12

Wrong. Nvidia explicitly unveiled the GF100 architecture to have 512 SPs at the Deep Dive event.

Perhaps you need to read my question again. I didn't ask about the GF100 architecture. I asked about a specific product based on it.

[annihilat0r]

^ How do we know that's not the case? I haven't seen any reliable sources stating the GTX 480 will have 512 SPs.

Charlie himself said top GF would have 512sp in his latest article.

[Arxagelos]

even charly(tan) says so! so it's true.

[trinibwoy]

Charlie himself said top GF would have 512sp in his latest article.

Sigh, why is nobody reading my question properly? I said reliable source Charlie also claimed it would have 448 in an earlier article, he's carpet bombing with his predictions as usual so he can claim to have been "right" once the dust settles.

[Olivon]

Sigh, why is nobody reading my question properly? I said reliable source Charlie also claimed it would have 448 in an earlier article, he's carpet bombing with his predictions as usual so he can claim to have been "right" once the dust settles.

And what is a reliable source ? B3D forum or what ?

Please be serious ...

[spursindonesia]

I highly doubt we will see very low availability of GF100 cards when they do hit the market like we did with with ATi's 5xxx cards during the past 6 months since It's quite clear the setback was caused by poor yields in TSMC's .40nm production. ATi rushed out their cards on this same process which caused them to have very high production costs and near non-existent availability during 2009 with the hopes that they'd grab a sizable chunk of market share away from nVidia. So far, this tactic has not proven itself to be a failure when you look at quarterly sales figures and dividend returns. To my surprise, a large majority of customers who I build high end systems for have yet to show any inclination in going in the direction of transitioning to HD 5xxx graphics solutions even after I inform them that ATi cards are clearly the best performing cards currently on the market. Many of them simply don't want to go with ATi because the lack of Cuda and PhysX processing, a history of shoddy drivers, and because they think ATi's current market lead will be just like previous leads in that it's typically followed by a couple years of being second rate once nVidia gets it's new architecture on the market.

A lot of consumers see ATi's performance lead not as some huge feat of technological innovation, but rather as the result of nVidia holding off release of a clearly better card because manufacturing costs would have been extremely high (as ATi has found out) due to TSMC's very low .40nm yields last year.

If ATi's strategy was as good as the fanboys here claim it to be, why has it clearly failed in terms of profits and market share gains? The goal here for ATi was to release a faster card and claim the performance crown while propagating the idea that nVidia's upcoming card had major flaws and will be another NV30.... all while hoping consumers will turn away from NV. And even though their insanely vocal fan base followed this strategy perfectly... the message has not has achieved any of it's goals as the numbers below clearly show.

I personally believe many consumers are completely turned off on buying ATi products when they go to websites like XS to research a pending graphics card purchase because of flood of negative crap consistently flooding any thread where readers simply want to get accurate, fair, and current information.

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The first tape-out of the GT300 was back in January/Feb of 2009. And nVidia had a far more refined tape-out which was announced in Santa Clara, CA in May, 2009.

I see absolutely no reason why the GT300 cards will not be ready by Q4 2009 considering their first tape out was over 7 months ago.

While in the past couple years, I've been quite skeptical regarding nVidia's recent claims about their forthcoming chips. But this time seems quite different and brings back memories of how quiet nVidia was about the G80.

Typically companies who run their mouths all the time about their upcoming "groundbreaking" GPU/CPU.... it almost always ends in disaster. (FX series of nVidia cards).

I'm even becoming quite concerned for ATI/AMD because they're by far the more vocal of the two GPU manufacturers.

I have a feeling nVidia is going to release a beast of a card later this year.

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I laugh so hard, i barely avoiding pissing in my pant.

Way to go fella, keep on making prediction & "smart" post like those.

[eric66]

Wow best post in 6 months and of the whole thread. QFT.

two nvidia boys agreeing on same bs never saw that coming

[kadozer]

And what is a reliable source ? B3D forum or what ?

Please be serious ...

It can't be Nvidia PR

[firas]

GF100 White paper on nVidia site, page 12

not a reliable sources.

Charlie himself said top GF would have 512sp in his latest article.

also not reliable , but if he said it then it must be true
just now i took a quick look at the semiaccurate forums, man they hate XS so much , funny how Charlie can't be accurate about the number of people who's stalking him, he says 3-4.

[Piotrsama]

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...3&postcount=70

Nice quote there

ATi rushed out their cards on this same process which caused them to have very high production costs and near non-existent availability during 2009 with the hopes that they'd grab a sizable chunk of market share away from nVidia.

Having your cards/architecture ready is "rushing" in your book?
You might want to see Nvidia's struggle to put their fermis on the market and rethink the whole situation. Because, they are the ones rushing their launch to march, when real availability is slated for may-july.

To my surprise, a large majority of customers who I build high end systems for have yet to show any inclination in going in the direction of transitioning to HD 5xxx graphics solutions even after I inform them that ATi cards are clearly the best performing cards currently on the market.

Many of them simply don't want to go with ATi because the lack of Cuda and PhysX processing, a history of shoddy drivers, and because they think ATi's current market lead will be just like previous leads in that it's typically followed by a couple years of being second rate once nVidia gets it's new architecture on the market.

Somehow (based on your posts lately) I would rather believe it's actually the reverse situation, your clients ask for the new Direct X 11 cards which they see are faster and everybody is talking about, and as you don't like ATI.... just give them those so important reasons as "lack of Cuda".
And about the drivers.... I've used Nvidia since 2001, but for my last purchase I chose ATI (my first ATI), and after 1+ year using this card....I had zero problems, and games played perfectly.

A lot of consumers see ATi's performance lead not as some huge feat of technological innovation, but rather as the result of nVidia holding off release of a clearly better card because manufacturing costs would have been extremely high (as ATi has found out) due to TSMC's very low .40nm yields last year.

If ATi's strategy was as good as the fanboys here claim it to be, why has it clearly failed in terms of profits and market share gains?

Because of the same problem you just mentioned: TSMC process/yields problems.

[Sam_oslo]

I didn't get the whole picture in all that twitter-mess last might. Is the official launch date for GTX 480 & 470, March 26 now?

[Gilgamesh]

3dmark Vantage Extreme and Performance on GTX470 (no screenshots):
http://translate.google.it/translate...n&hl=&ie=UTF-8

X73xx and P167xx (Physix?)

for reference:

http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/314...rd/index4.html

[eric66]

I didn't get the whole picture in all that twitter-mess last might. Is the official launch date for GTX 480 & 470, March 26 now?

yep of course nvidia failed to deliver message that simple instead pissed of ppl with that lan party anouncement

[annihilat0r]

3dmark Vantage Extreme and Performance on GTX470 (no screenshots):
http://translate.google.it/translate...n&hl=&ie=UTF-8

X73xx and P167xx (Physix?)

for reference:

http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/314...rd/index4.html

So this puts GTX 470 to around 5850-5870 level performance?

[Gilgamesh]

So this puts GTX 470 to around 5850 level performance?

Frankly, I hope no.
Bad/old drivers?

[annihilat0r]

I've done some research and concluded that those Performance scores are in line with HD5870 and Extreme scores are a bit lower than HD5870.

But obviously those HD5000 scores are from initial Cypress reviews and I believe those scores should have gone up slightly with newer drivers.

However, the same should be the case with GF100, it should increase performance over time. Even more so than Cypress, taking into account the new architecture.

[ajaidev]

If the 3D mark vantage scores are correct this is bad. I mean in extrema GTX 470 actually loses out to 5850 Toxic "765 clock instead of 725"

But i also hope its a driver thing, because if its not a mild boosted 5870 would be able to compete against a GTX 470

I would prefer 19xxx and 9xxx from GTX 4xx !!