Lighting?

[ridney]

Hey guys, i'm thinking of making a little home studio lighting for taking portraits with my kids. I just want to know a "rough estimate" of how much it would cost me? and what a typical setup would be?

I am thinking of (1) 580EX II in a softbox, (1) silver reflector, (1) 430EX II for background lighting, (1) Background stand. Do i still need another flash on the hotshoe of my camera? Light meter?

Thanks

[Lestat]

you would spend less just getting strobe lighting, or as i did, constant lighting, stands, umbrellas. came with 5500K CFL bulbs.
then just use a single flash to compensate where needed.
my thought is, and i have no bases to back this, its just a thought, that those little flashes are not going to provide near enough light.
you need a blanket of light, be it strobe or constant. unless you are not wanting a blanket of even night based on your usbject and your goal.
plus, you cant see what the lighting will look like until you take the picture.
strobes will have amodelling mode where the light can be turned on to measure the lighting, pose your subject, then turn them off and use the strobe for the flash.

i dont see the purpose of using strobes when constant lighting leaves no questions about how its going to look., pls they are ALOT cheaper and more controllable if you have adjustable lighting.
plus i have never been in a studio, granted its been a while, where strobes where used, it was always constant lighting, with possible a strobe to fill in any gaps/shadows.

[inCore]

I'm personally a fan of strobes. You can take them anywhere you want and set up a studio anywhere you want. With constant lighting you're stuck somewhere near a socket. I'd also argue that you don't really need a modeling light, you learn to see how it's going to hit the subject. Head over to Strobist and read the Lighting 101. This guys uses only strobes for all his work and does some seriously amazing stuff that you're not able to do with continuous lighting.

You don't need a lightmeter. There is plenty of information on the internet on how to figure it out without one, and you don't need long to learn how to do it by feel and experience.

About the lights, two is generally enough but three is a lot nicer. The light that you might possibly be 'missing' is you only have two is the one on the other side of the camera. A standard lighting setup in a studio is often composed of a lamp at 45 degrees to the left, one above and behind the camera and the last one lighting up the background. However, if you feel that you're lacking light on the other side and you only have two strobes, you can still put up a reflector on the other side.

Also, keep in mind that you don't really need lightstands as such if you are firing a strobe bare. They don't weigh much so you can clamp them pretty much anywhere. There's more information about that also on Strobist, as linked above. That you can't do with continuous light.

Most people start with umbrellas, they're generally easier to use and more versatile. This especially applies if you get an umbrella with a cover that you can take off to change it from shoot-through to a reflector umbrella.

Otherwise, your setup looks good. It might be easier to have two identical strobes if you want to figure out the ratios between them easier, but having two different ones is fine also.

Hope I helped.

[Elisha]

Ridney, if you are indoors, you just need hotshoe flashes. Your 580EX may be a waste in this case. You can get away with flashes like the YN-460 and still have plenty of extra power. I have 2 YN-460s and one white umbrella on a 7' stand.
The room I use as a studio is pretty small but I will be adding a reflective umbrella eventually and maybe some reflectors too so I can use for outdoors as well and a softbox depending on how I fell later on.
I'm also going to get a 3rd flash to use as a hair light for separation of the subject and the dark background as well.

But if you want to shoot outdoors with softbox and brolly, then by all means the 580EX will give you all the power you need since you will be fighting with ambient sunlight.

[ridney]

you would spend less just getting strobe lighting, or as i did, constant lighting, stands, umbrellas. came with 5500K CFL bulbs.
then just use a single flash to compensate where needed.
my thought is, and i have no bases to back this, its just a thought, that those little flashes are not going to provide near enough light.
you need a blanket of light, be it strobe or constant. unless you are not wanting a blanket of even night based on your usbject and your goal.
plus, you cant see what the lighting will look like until you take the picture.
strobes will have amodelling mode where the light can be turned on to measure the lighting, pose your subject, then turn them off and use the strobe for the flash.

i dont see the purpose of using strobes when constant lighting leaves no questions about how its going to look., pls they are ALOT cheaper and more controllable if you have adjustable lighting.
plus i have never been in a studio, granted its been a while, where strobes where used, it was always constant lighting, with possible a strobe to fill in any gaps/shadows.

Thanks Lestat, i would also like continous lighting but i'm kind of concerned with the cost of electric bills and the fact that i wouldn't have mobility if i also wanted to shoot outdoors. Perhaps a mixed setup of strobe and continous lighting would be ideal? That way, i wouldn't have a problem getting AF locked on the subject if i don't have enough ambient light on the studio. But I agree that continous lighting would give you instant view of how the light would look like on the subject and would save you a lot of time.

I'm personally a fan of strobes. You can take them anywhere you want and set up a studio anywhere you want. With constant lighting you're stuck somewhere near a socket. I'd also argue that you don't really need a modeling light, you learn to see how it's going to hit the subject. Head over to Strobist and read the Lighting 101. This guys uses only strobes for all his work and does some seriously amazing stuff that you're not able to do with continuous lighting.

You don't need a lightmeter. There is plenty of information on the internet on how to figure it out without one, and you don't need long to learn how to do it by feel and experience.

About the lights, two is generally enough but three is a lot nicer. The light that you might possibly be 'missing' is you only have two is the one on the other side of the camera. A standard lighting setup in a studio is often composed of a lamp at 45 degrees to the left, one above and behind the camera and the last one lighting up the background. However, if you feel that you're lacking light on the other side and you only have two strobes, you can still put up a reflector on the other side.

Also, keep in mind that you don't really need lightstands as such if you are firing a strobe bare. They don't weigh much so you can clamp them pretty much anywhere. There's more information about that also on Strobist, as linked above. That you can't do with continuous light.

Most people start with umbrellas, they're generally easier to use and more versatile. This especially applies if you get an umbrella with a cover that you can take off to change it from shoot-through to a reflector umbrella.

Otherwise, your setup looks good. It might be easier to have two identical strobes if you want to figure out the ratios between them easier, but having two different ones is fine also.

Hope I helped.

Thanks inCore for the reply and the link too. I have yet to read that blog though but i will until i finish reading volume 3 of scott kelby's book.

Yes, that is why i chose strobes (580EX speedlites) for the convenience of mobility and easy setup. I can shoot at home or outdoors if ever i would get bored with the constant background at home. And this is the same setup we used with my friend who did the shoot of my computer rig and the result was quite okay.

I am planning to get two strobes for a start and use a reflector to act as fill flash on the opposite side of the main flash. I will definitely get a softbox and an umbrella with stands since they don't cost much and by that i will have more choices on my lighting setups. I was thinking of the 430EX II as a second source of light as it might not be as important as the main flash but i don't want to have regrets later on so I guess i will just get the same model of strobes as you've suggested then.

So with this setup, how will i get the camera to AF lock on the subject if i turn off all the lights? Do i need an extra light for this? I guess i just need to read the link you gave me then

Ridney, if you are indoors, you just need hotshoe flashes. Your 580EX may be a waste in this case. You can get away with flashes like the YN-460 and still have plenty of extra power. I have 2 YN-460s and one white umbrella on a 7' stand.
The room I use as a studio is pretty small but I will be adding a reflective umbrella eventually and maybe some reflectors too so I can use for outdoors as well and a softbox depending on how I fell later on.
I'm also going to get a 3rd flash to use as a hair light for separation of the subject and the dark background as well.

But if you want to shoot outdoors with softbox and brolly, then by all means the 580EX will give you all the power you need since you will be fighting with ambient sunlight.

Thanks Elisha, i will try to research about this YN-460 hotshoe flash, it seems to be a good alternative. It looks like you'll be having a pretty good home studio there Yes, i think hair lighting would be the way to go, perhaps if i only have two light source then i will just use the second light as hair lighting and no background light?

I will definitely be shooting outdoors. I want to try to shoot under harsh light but purposely underexpose it and use the flash to overpower the ambient light to get that more fashion/commercial look

[inCore]

Thanks Lestat, i would also like continous lighting but i'm kind of concerned with the cost of electric bills and the fact that i wouldn't have mobility if i also wanted to shoot outdoors. Perhaps a mixed setup of strobe and continous lighting would be ideal? That way, i wouldn't have a problem getting AF locked on the subject if i don't have enough ambient light on the studio. But I agree that continous lighting would give you instant view of how the light would look like on the subject and would save you a lot of time.

Your camera has an autofocus assist light so it won't have a problem. I'd stay away from combining continuous lighting with strobes, you'll end up being angry inside because your strobes aren't as easy to predict as the continous lights and you'll be angry everywhere else because you'll end up having just one strobe to carry around.

Thanks inCore for the reply and the link too. I have yet to read that blog though but i will until i finish reading volume 3 of scott kelby's book.

Yes, that is why i chose strobes (580EX speedlites) for the convenience of mobility and easy setup. I can shoot at home or outdoors if ever i would get bored with the constant background at home. And this is the same setup we used with my friend who did the shoot of my computer rig and the result was quite okay.

I am planning to get two strobes for a start and use a reflector to act as fill flash on the opposite side of the main flash. I will definitely get a softbox and an umbrella with stands since they don't cost much and by that i will have more choices on my lighting setups. I was thinking of the 430EX II as a second source of light as it might not be as important as the main flash but i don't want to have regrets later on so I guess i will just get the same model of strobes as you've suggested then.

So with this setup, how will i get the camera to AF lock on the subject if i turn off all the lights? Do i need an extra light for this? I guess i just need to read the link you gave me then

As mentioned, your 7D (that's the camera you have, if I remember correctly) will have no problem focusing. The 7D also has quite a good autofocusing system in general. Although it's been in the news for being problematic at times, when it works, it works well.

When shooting outside, you're sometimes forced to fight the sun's light, so having a powerful flash is just not a bad idea if you're shooting outside. When you're inside you can turn it down.

Thanks Elisha, i will try to research about this YN-460 hotshoe flash, it seems to be a good alternative. It looks like you'll be having a pretty good home studio there Yes, i think hair lighting would be the way to go, perhaps if i only have two light source then i will just use the second light as hair lighting and no background light?

I will definitely be shooting outdoors. I want to try to shoot under harsh light but purposely underexpose it and use the flash to overpower the ambient light to get that more fashion/commercial look

You don't really need a background light unless you're trying to seperate a darker subject from a white background. If you're shooting with a dark background, it could be said that you don't need to light it at all, if you light your subject well enough. An example of a time when you would definitely need to light the background is when you're trying to get some detail into a subject with black clothing and they're in front of a white background. In this case you'd try to light it more heavily from one side (a strong strobe on the left for example) and have a reflector on the right. Then you'd flash the background as heavily as you can to make the black pop out of the picture.

About the style you're trying to achieve, I know what you mean. I love it too.

[ridney]

Thanks Incore, for that informative reply. I was wondering if you could have some time to see the link below and give your opinion if it would be a better setup?

http://www.cathayphoto.com.sg/offers...-500500-go-set

It's an Elinchrom BXRi 500/500 To-go set which i find interesting but i don't have any idea of the difference between this kind of setup or with the 580EX IIs that I mentioned from the start of this thread. Besides the disadvantage of portability/mobility for outside shots where power is unavailable, would this be better? The price on that link is in singapore dollars so it would be about US $1 = SGD $1.50

Perhaps, i could just buy a 580EX II later when i get bored with shooting indoors? would I be wasting money?

[ridney]

i'll be getting the D-lite 4 set this weekend, thanks everyone.

[Lestat]

dude please tell me you are not spending $800 dollars on a strobe kit.
now in singapore maybe they are dirt cheap, but Adorama has them at nearly $800

[inCore]

i'll be getting the D-lite 4 set this weekend, thanks everyone.

First off, really sorry for not seeing that you posted in this thread earlier.

The Elinchroms are really good. They're of course also Swiss, so I have to endorse my local products.

You say you're getting the 'set', is this the kit the comes with two softboxes etc.? If so, it seems to be a good deal. There is nothing wrong with it really, you really get what you pay for and it even comes with modeling lights, for those that feel like that's the problem with strobes.

I personally like the versatility of fully portable strobes but you can buy battery packs for the Elinchroms rather easily.

[ridney]

dude please tell me you are not spending $800 dollars on a strobe kit.
now in singapore maybe they are dirt cheap, but Adorama has them at nearly $800

Yes, it's around that price range. Kit is S$1200 (U$800) brand new + skyport S$150 (U$100). There's a guy in one of our local forums offering me his kit (used 4 months) including the skyport for S$1100 (U$700+), it might be a better deal.

First off, really sorry for not seeing that you posted in this thread earlier.

The Elinchroms are really good. They're of course also Swiss, so I have to endorse my local products.

You say you're getting the 'set', is this the kit the comes with two softboxes etc.? If so, it seems to be a good deal. There is nothing wrong with it really, you really get what you pay for and it even comes with modeling lights, for those that feel like that's the problem with strobes.

I personally like the versatility of fully portable strobes but you can buy battery packs for the Elinchroms rather easily.

Yep, it's the kit with two 400ws strobes, softboxes and light stands. And yes, I've also been thinking of getting a battery pack (explorer xt or vagabond) for outdoor shoots or another battery operated 400ws strobe from "Jinbei" which would be around the same cost. Or perhaps, i'll just get a 580. Anyways, i would be shooting outdoors at a much later time, need to practice indoors first. The good thing to know is that, if i need to go outdoors, for a better dramatic background then i have an option of getting a battery pack.

[Nate P.]

dude please tell me you are not spending $800 dollars on a strobe kit.
now in singapore maybe they are dirt cheap, but Adorama has them at nearly $800

Man, thats downright cheap for a quality strobe kit.

[ridney]

But if you want to shoot outdoors with softbox and brolly, then by all means the 580EX will give you all the power you need since you will be fighting with ambient sunlight.

Elisha, i am considering getting a hotshoe flash and was wondering if a Nissin Di866 would be a good idea than the 580EX II as it's almost half the price of the canon counterpart?
Or would i be better off with the 580EX II because i could trigger it wirelessly (optically with the pop-up flash?) for off camera flash and adjust flash settings through the camera instead? I have a skyport wireless trigger though that i could use for the nissin. thanks

[Elisha]

Better get the 580EX II instead. Not sure if the Nissin will do HSS when mounted on the camera.
Also don't quite know how well it will co-operate with Canon wireless protocol for remote flashes. If the Nissin works with the STE-2 then it will work with the 7D built in commander.
Plus the 580EX II is weather sealed so you can shoot outdoors with confidence if the weather gets rough!

[ridney]

thanks elisha, i better get the 580exII then. hope it would be enough for some outdoor shoots under the shade

[Elisha]

Ridney, I spoke to a friend yesterday who also has the Metz 58 in addition to the 580 EX II and he says he prefers the Metz for portraits because when he bounces, the Metz has a secondary smaller light that is used as fill.
And he also mentioned that it does HSS when mounted on the camera.
Plus since it comes with a USB input, you can do firmware updates on it. However, it is not weather sealed like the 580 II.

[ridney]

elisha, those features you've mentioned are also available with the nissin di866. it also has a sub-flash to use as a fill for shadows under the eyes when bouncing off the ceiling though based from the reviews i have read, it overexposes the subject. it also do ttl high-speed-sync and a usb port for firmware updates. i believe they are in the works for an updated firmware to make it compatible with 7D's wireless flash functions.

http://www.nissindigital.com/en/Di866-2.html

i'll take a look at that metz flash but i think it's more expensive than the 580ex II right? thanks

[Elisha]

The Metz price is pretty stable and the Canon would occasionally be the same or cheaper depending on the Canon rebates.
However for 100% Canon wireless TTL compatibility, I recommend sticking with the Canon.
Also with the 580 EX II, you can control most of the flash settings when mounted on the 7D without physically touching the unit itself which is cool. For any other flash, you will have to actually use the unit's interface itself.
So that's a huge plus for the 580 EX II.

[Janno]

i'm happy with my 580ex ii
sure, metz might have some tricks up it's sleeve like the fill flash and firmware updates, but the 580 is built like a tank and works 100% reliably

[strange|ife]

the ghetto studio
http://www.diyphotography.net/stuidi...-ghetto-studio