The GT300/Fermi Thread

[RPGWiZaRD]

At least I've decided "to camp" with this GTX 280 until some refresh arrives from nvidia or ATI if they fix the issues with 120Hz LCDs. Not a fan of spending $400+ that might be worth half of that in a half year.

[saaya]

sony hasset up a 3d booth here in taipei in the city center, companies do stuff like this all the time here next to shopping centers...

anyhow, i went in and they showed 3 things:
240hz lcd tvs -
3d dual dlp with passive glasses - TERRIBLE! dont know why but it was just awful, gave me a headache and looked cr4p...
3d 120hz display with active glasses - very sweet!

what i dont get is why still not a single display maker figured out that combining 240hz panels with 3d would be a great idea... 120hz on each eye... perfect! and you get the full resolution too! and no or almost no flickering at all, even with active shutter glasses...

now THATS something thats worth spending money on!
a 240hz 3d display!

[Cybercat]

nintendo64 was based on a tnt2 when we had geforce2 cards already...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_64

[skycrane]

they sure do... i visited audis hq when i worked for amd... really nice people...
they are all about perfection... really motivated, really bright, really friendly...

i also visited mercedes and vw, vw was a nightmare, its a like a government agency from the 50s... bmw was cool but they were a bit arrogant and not that motivated and innovative.

anyhow, you bring up a good point!
what exactly does any of us NEED a new videocard for?
except for crysis and stalker there isnt a game out there that needs more horsepower than what current mid-highend cards deliver...
and those two only need it for high res and aa...

and what demanding games that push the envelope are we going to see in 2010?
there might be one or even 2 or 3, but will they be good enough to convince people to spend 300$+ on upgrading so they can play the game at high res?
nvidia is pretty lucky that they stumbled in such a point in time tbh... if they would have stumbled when crysis and stalker came out, and other demanding games were pushing the envelope, it would have hurt them a lot more... gtx275 and 285 and probably even 260 owners can camp with their current cards well within 2010 if not until 2011 until they really need a new vga to play demanding games i think...

i see a NEED for it. just because the newest games dont need the power of the new gpus, dosent mean i dont. ive got 18 rigs in my small pharm that could use 9 5870s, and 9 fermis. ive got a pair of 8800gtx, 9600gso. 4870s, and one 9800gx2. and i NEED moar power if i am to win the DC race

[Manicdan]

anyhow, i went in and they showed 3 things:
240hz lcd tvs -

was it 240FPS input and output? or just output? how did they connect it to a PC?

[sholvaco]

afaik rsx is slower than a 7800gtx, and xenos is slower than its desktop equivalent as well, the xbox1 gpu was a geforce 3.5 and at that time gf4 was already out too i think... nintendo64 was based on a tnt2 when we had geforce2 cards already... i think the xbox1 was actually the closest to desktop perf, gpu wise...

I'm not 100% sure about raw computational power but architecture wise Xenos was ahead of the desktop parts at the time of it's launch; at the very least it was the first to feature unified shader architecture.

N64 came out before the first 3dfx Voodoo (summer of 96) and consequently had zero to do with any PC parts. It ran a custom SGI solution developed by the very guys that later provided ATi with the R300 pimp glove. Although the IQ may have been worse due to the limited framebuffer (most games were 320x240, higher res came later via an expansion pack) it still ran circles around contemporary PC accelerators when it came to effects.

Basically until PlayStation 3 came out consoles (at launch) always had a technological advantage over desktop parts however brief it may have been. OTOH even the PS3 "fiasco" was mainly the result of a last minute solution; (the planned dual) cell went over the cost and under-delivered on the graphical performance. Being caught with their pants down Sony had no choice but to go to one of the major GPU houses and ask for the best available part that could have been jury rigged to interface with cell in a timely manner (and since ATi was already in employ of both of it's competitors) therefore a memory interface gimped 7800GTX.

Since consoles are being developed with a certain longevity to their life cycle in mind their hardware dev houses buy exclusivity in whatever they consider is going to be cutting edge at the time of their launch to provide some temporal buffer against competing platforms (including PCs, although the gap has been closing over the generations) and since they've positioned themselves as providers of high def/high fidelity entertainment I'm fairly certain both MS and Sony are carefully arranging their respective entrances into the next gen to up the ante (launching halfway through a GPU refresh cycle with next gen GPU parts, especially amidst all the delays brought on by the current economic conditions doesn't seem outside the realm of possibility).

[annihilat0r]

afaik rsx is slower than a 7800gtx, and xenos is slower than its desktop equivalent as well, the xbox1 gpu was a geforce 3.5 and at that time gf4 was already out too i think... nintendo64 was based on a tnt2 when we had geforce2 cards already... i think the xbox1 was actually the closest to desktop perf, gpu wise...

RSX is not only faster than 7800GTX, Xenos is even faster than RSX plus it was released a lot earlier. This means that the first time the next generation consoles arrive, their GPU technology will / has to be just as fast as their PC counterparts.

[fellix_bg]

RSX is not only faster than 7800GTX, ...

The PS3 RSX chip is essentially a 128-bit version of NV's G70 architecture, with half the ROP count and half the memory bus width. How is that faster than the original implementation?

[RPGWiZaRD]

now THATS something thats worth spending money on!
a 240hz 3d display!

One word: bandwidth...

For 3D it doesn't work with predicted frames, would need 240Hz input and I don't expect to see any interface capable delivering this anytime soon. ^^

[saaya]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_64

wow, weird... why did i think n64 was based on tnt2?
ahhhh i remember, i read somewhere that nvidia wanted them to use one of their chips but nintendo decided against it....

was it 240FPS input and output? or just output? how did they connect it to a PC?

no idea, they didnt speak english at all, lol... and it was all in black curtains... no idea how it was hooked up...

One word: bandwidth...

For 3D it doesn't work with predicted frames, would need 240Hz input and I don't expect to see any interface capable delivering this anytime soon. ^^

dvi dl can do 1920x1200@120hz... so couldnt you just use 2 dvi-dl connectors? kinda split the screen in 2 parts and each handles one part and then run them both at 240hz?

[570091D]

The PS3 RSX chip is essentially a 128-bit version of NV's G70 architecture, with half the ROP count and half the memory bus width. How is that faster than the original implementation?

it uses rambus xdr ram, much MUCH more bandwidth than the original. from what i hear, the RSX chip is about 3 times faster than a 7800gtx. but are we really discussing weather a 7800gtx can play gta4 in the fermi thread?

[annihilat0r]

it uses rambus xdr ram, much MUCH more bandwidth than the original. from what i hear, the RSX chip is about 3 times faster than a 7800gtx. but are we really discussing weather a 7800gtx can play gta4 in the fermi thread?

AFAIK a 8800GTX is considerably faster than a RSX, which means that RSX can't be 3 times as fast as 7800GTX. From what I heard, RSX is about 2 times fast as an 6800 Ultra, which would make it faster than 7800GTX and probably 7900GTX.

[fellix_bg]

it uses rambus xdr ram, much MUCH more bandwidth than the original. from what i hear, the RSX chip is about 3 times faster than a 7800gtx.

I'm simply amazed by the level of ignorance in this matter here!

XDR memory is attached to the Cell processor, not the RSX -- it uses a set of dirt cheap GDDR3 chips.
The full spec's of the RSX are available, as well as those for G70/71, Xenos, or any other GPU architecture you can think of - go and read what's about and then do some reasonable conclusions. Geez...

[Iconyu]

wow, weird... why did i think n64 was based on tnt2?
ahhhh i remember, i read somewhere that nvidia wanted them to use one of their chips but nintendo decided against it....

Nope it was Sega that was considering nvidia for the Dreamcast, but back then nvidia were considering quads instead of triangles which Sega didn't like because it gave them so much merde on the Saturn, so they made prototypes with 3DFx and PowerVR chips.

Look up the NV1 and NV2.

The only time I've really seen a positive link between nintendo and nvidia has been over their new handheld, which may use some form of Tegra part.

[saaya]

The only time I've really seen a positive link between nintendo and nvidia has been over their new handheld, which may use some form of Tegra part.

weeeell and that might just be a rumor...
nvidia needs good pr atm, and all the sudden there are rumors and public announcements that they have "lots of design wins" but no names mentioned

[cowie]

weeeell and that might just be a rumor...
nvidia needs good pr atm, and all the sudden there are rumors and public announcements that they have "lots of design wins" but no names mentioned

funny as fast as they come from nv or the company itself charlie claims they dont.... without anyproof.
then people post up his bs and wow nv bashers have something to spam about

[waway625]

funny as fast as they come from nv or the company itself charlie claims they dont.... without anyproof.
then people post up his bs and wow nv bashers have something to spam about

ive been lurking for a while and have generally found the news section interesting to read..but the attitude here towards nvidia lately just makes me wonder if this has turned into an ATI clubhouse

[Luka_Aveiro]

ive been lurking for a while and have generally found the news section interesting to read..but the attitude here towards nvidia lately just makes me wonder if this has turned into an ATI clubhouse

It has always been an ATI clubhouse, so it can't turn to what it already is

[LordEC911]

It has always been an ATI clubhouse, so it can't turn to what it already is

Not really... about 1.5years ago is when it started to slowly chang.
Before that it was Nvidia + Intel all the way, it does help that most of the big Nvidia and Intel trolls were banned though.

[Luka_Aveiro]

Not really... about 1.5years ago is when it started to slowly chang.
Before that it was Nvidia + Intel all the way, it does help that most of the big Nvidia and Intel trolls were banned though.

It was Nvidia + Intel because of G80+Conroe... But yeah, AMD is doing it's job, nVidia being asleep helps them, though.

[Chumbucket843]

I'm simply amazed by the level of ignorance in this matter here!

XDR memory is attached to the Cell processor, not the RSX -- it uses a set of dirt cheap GDDR3 chips.
The full spec's of the RSX are available, as well as those for G70/71, Xenos, or any other GPU architecture you can think of - go and read what's about and then do some reasonable conclusions. Geez...

when insulting people try to use proper grammar. not everyone spends their time reading patents, whitepapers and what not nor do they know the trouble the rsx would have to go through to reach xdr. you cant really make any design changes when sony asks you to make a chip so close to launch of a console so hopefully we can all agree that at best this chip is ok.

[Macadamia]

when insulting people try to use proper grammar. not everyone spends their time reading patents, whitepapers and what not nor do they know the trouble the rsx would have to go through to reach xdr. you cant really make any design changes when sony asks you to make a chip so close to launch of a console so hopefully we can all agree that at best this chip is ok.

Unbelievable.

Let's go back to the post again.

from what i hear, the RSX chip is about 3 times faster than a 7800gtx.

So from now on, let's discard factual assessments for hearsay k, since the truth isn't important (since you can always QFT a certain somebody and pretend to be always right) but emotions and pretending to be a gentlemen is.

[fellix_bg]

nor do they know the trouble the rsx would have to go through to reach xdr.

Strangely, I thought that Cell is in trouble of reaching RSX local memory (reads), not the other way around.

[saaya]

funny as fast as they come from nv or the company itself charlie claims they dont....

he did?

AMD is doing it's job, nVidia being asleep helps them, though.

amd as in amd doing its job... idk man... are they? where is their monster ipc 8core bulldozer? where is their ultra low power x86 chip? all they did in the past 5 years was deliver a terrible quadcore and then bit by bit fix it... and oh wow, they patched together a 6core chip, and they finally go mcm, but so what?

amd as in ati has been very active...
i dont think nvidia is sleeping though, they are working hard... very hard... they just made some bad decisions...

when insulting people try to use proper grammar. not everyone spends their time reading patents, whitepapers and what not nor do they know the trouble the rsx would have to go through to reach xdr. you cant really make any design changes when sony asks you to make a chip so close to launch of a console so hopefully we can all agree that at best this chip is ok.

nobody said rsx is a bad chip and nvidia screwed it up... several people just said that its slower than its desktop counterparts...
and i dont think he meant to insult you... not at all...
he didnt mention you, nor did he insult you or anybody else... he posted his opinion.

hes right in critizicing you, and actually me and others as well, for not doing a quick google search before posting something. i could have sworn nintendo64 used an nvidia chip... but i should have checked

[Jowy Atreides]

full fermi specs and pics here,

www.nvidia.com/fermi_news/full_specs