EVGA GTX 285 Hydro Copper - Is this a joke or what?

[Roger_D25]

I think that is the best way to handle the situation instead of crapping all over this company (especially since your still trying to get service from them)! If this company doesn't end up helping you out than I'll do my best to help spread the word about their poor customer service, lol!

[Alien Grey]

I forgot to say something about that company in the Netherlands. They are saying that there is nothing wrong with the graphics card and cooler that EVGA gave me but they did remove the EVGA GTX 285 Hydro Copper from their EVGA graphics card list on their website.

Funny, why should they remove it when these graphics cards aren't bad?

[Roger_D25]

Wow, its gets worse and worse! If there was any question left about whose to blame I think that just cleared it up.

[cx-ray]

A-Grey, the situation is much simpler than you think it is. In the EU your purchasing contract is with MPL in Belgium. They are the ones who are obligated by law to give you a refund. What they do behind the scenes to pass on responsibility is completely irrelevant to you as a consumer and the laws that protect you.

[overclocking101]

Wo man you guys overseas really get borked sometimes huh? I hear about this all the time. you guys need a good EU shop with great support because that region is bigger than this one and there is far more money to be made, hell If i had the money to start an operation like that I would because I have seen so damn many of these threads on so many diff forums especially this year. maybe a drop shipping comany for hardware or somehing would workout idk. you guys deserve the same service we get over here its not right that things like this happen at all. man this really burns my ass that I keep seing posts like this everywhere.

[Roger_D25]

cx-ray & overclocking101 - two great posts guys! Since reading A-Grey's last post above I actually spent some time looking into EU law regarding consumer protections and retail sales. Of course I don't fully understand everything but as cx-ray mentioned above the law is very clear regarding situations like yours A-Grey. As far as the law is concerned you shouldn't have to deal with anyone other than the retailer you delt with on the original purchase (and it really doesn't matter whether MPL gets reimbursed or not because the law is to protect consumers). I was actually very impressed by the way EU law has an emphasis on protecting the consumer, now I'm curious how our own law here in the States compares (I have a feeling that there is less emphasis on protecting the end-user consumer than there is with EU law)?

overclocking101-Although I can't say this with certainty it certainly seems like there is more of this in the marketplace (on both sides of the Atlantic), I imagine it has to due with the economic downturn everyone everywhere is facing (these retailers are tightening their belts just like everyone else). However that doesn't mean its right for them to do this but that is probably the main reason for it?

[Alien Grey]

A-Grey, the situation is much simpler than you think it is. In the EU your purchasing contract is with MPL in Belgium. They are the ones who are obligated by law to give you a refund. What they do behind the scenes to pass on responsibility is completely irrelevant to you as a consumer and the laws that protect you.

I know that MPL should give me the refund and that isn't the problem. The problem is that EVGA wants to give me a new EVGA GTX 285 Hydro Copper with the Innovatek Cooler so there is no need for a refund.

What am I going to do with a graphics card that comes with a cooler that I can't connect to my watercooling setup?

[Alien Grey]

Wo man you guys overseas really get borked sometimes huh? I hear about this all the time. you guys need a good EU shop with great support because that region is bigger than this one and there is far more money to be made, hell If i had the money to start an operation like that I would because I have seen so damn many of these threads on so many diff forums especially this year. maybe a drop shipping comany for hardware or somehing would workout idk. you guys deserve the same service we get over here its not right that things like this happen at all. man this really burns my ass that I keep seing posts like this everywhere.

The same service is impossible. The problem isn't the retailers it's the distributors. They don't care if you have to wait weeks or months before you see a solution for your problem.

It's all about money. The shipping costs are to big to send one piece of hardware back to the manufacturer so they wait till there are enough pieces to ship or new pieces of hardware arrive to give you a new one.

[Alien Grey]

cx-ray & overclocking101 - two great posts guys! Since reading A-Grey's last post above I actually spent some time looking into EU law regarding consumer protections and retail sales. Of course I don't fully understand everything but as cx-ray mentioned above the law is very clear regarding situations like yours A-Grey. As far as the law is concerned you shouldn't have to deal with anyone other than the retailer you delt with on the original purchase (and it really doesn't matter whether MPL gets reimbursed or not because the law is to protect consumers). I was actually very impressed by the way EU law has an emphasis on protecting the consumer, now I'm curious how our own law here in the States compares (I have a feeling that there is less emphasis on protecting the end-user consumer than there is with EU law)?

I know that I can ask my money back when there is no solution for the problem but I think that the retailer also has the right to look for an alternative solution before he is going to give you your money back.

[NaeKuh]

I know that I can ask my money back when there is no solution for the problem but I think that the retailer also has the right to look for an alternative solution before he is going to give you your money back.

Meh EU...

Sorry i wrote for USA...

You EU people get screwed so badly..

I honestly feel sorry for you guys compared to USA people.

[Alien Grey]

Meh EU...

Sorry i wrote for USA...

You EU people get screwed so badly..

I honestly feel sorry for you guys compared to USA people.

It isn't so easy in the EU. The consumer is well protected but who is responsible?

If you look at this: Certain standards exist for assessing when conformity can be assumed and when not. If the goods are not delivered in conformity with the sales contract, consumers can ask for the goods to be repaired, replaced, and reduced in price or for the contract to be rescinded. The final seller, who is responsible to the consumer, can also hold the producer liable in their business relationship.


That's why it takes such a long time before you see a solution in the EU. They are always arguing about who is responsible.

[NaeKuh]

That's why it takes such a long time before you see a solution in the EU. They are always arguing about who is responsible.

yeah...

In the USA its either:

1. You got screwed.
2. You got A++ support.

:X

There is no option 3.

[Chruschef]

yeah...

In the USA its either:

1. You got screwed.
2. You got A++ support.

:X

There is no option 3.

yeah...

but, it's usually pretty well known which outcome its going to be. in the USA if you buy an EVGA card, you know your not going to get screwed... if you buy some random obscure card you can't ever be to sure.

[NaeKuh]

yeah...

but, it's usually pretty well known which outcome its going to be. in the USA if you buy an EVGA card, you know your not going to get screwed... if you buy some random obscure card you can't ever be to sure.

definitely...

I personally always get the advance RMA option, with the shipping label.

Makes life a ton easier.

[Chruschef]

This is why you always pay using a credit card. If they give you , you just call the CC and dispute the charges. You did not receive what you ordered. As the card sent to you was different from the one you ordered/defective.

^^ there is always that ^^

i think most people pay for that online goods with credit cards. most of the time once you do that, a company will try to fix the problem to.

[Alien Grey]

You guys are right. But in my case this is the EU.


Here's something else that's very interesting.

EU consumer protection laws are always applicable when a business seller sells to consumers residing in the EU, regardless from where he is operating his business (e.g. US, China, Hong Kong, etc.).


So when the distributor claims that EVGA is a US company and they don't have to honor the EU law, he's very wrong.

There is no doubt that EVGA is the one to blame for causing the trouble with the EVGA GTX 285 Hydro Copper because they violated several rules from the EU law.

So when David from MPL asked the distributor to give them a credit note for the amount that was INVOICED so they can give me a full refund, he had the right to do it.

When the distributor told them that they aren't responsible for the problem and that they don't have to do anything he was also wrong because he is the one that is responsible for making this product available on the EU market and also violates the EU law.


Let's look back at this one: Certain standards exist for assessing when conformity can be assumed and when not. If the goods are not delivered in conformity with the sales contract, consumers can ask for the goods to be repaired, replaced, and reduced in price or for the contract to be rescinded. The final seller, who is responsible to the consumer, can also hold the producer liable in their business relationship.

When David from MPL told EVGA that the customer is king, he's also very right.

I'm king and I decide what I want to pay for the damage that they caused. This can be a full refund, a EVGA GTX 285 Hydro Copper that meets the specs listed on their website, a lower price (Not applicable because what am I going to do with graphics card that I can't use for myself) or ask what ever I want to pay for the damage that they caused me.

Maybe I'm going to have a EVGA GTX 3XX Hydro Copper after all.


Geert the manager from MPL wants to give me one of their graphics cards to use for the time that I have to wait for my new graphics card to arrive.

Why would I want to ask my money back to them because I don't want to wait for a solution for the RMA?

MPL is the only one that I trust to buy my computer components. I don't think that you'll find another one in Belgium that can give you the service that they give. They give you the support you need that you should have from the manufacturer.

But of course if you can't have this service from your retailer your screwed and can wait a long time in the EU before you see your precious hardware back.

[cx-ray]

You said you sent the card back with-in 8 days of taking delivery. In that case it's simple. You can demand a full refund based on the law for purchase over a distant location. No reason has to be given. Just a change of mind is sufficient to qualify.

In Dutch: Wet kopen op afstand (has to be sent back within 7 working days - hope you didn't wait until 8).

Edit again...it gets even better: when a retailer doesn't notify you of this law, your 7 day period to send stuff back will begin from the moment you're made aware of this law by your retailer.

[Alien Grey]

You said you sent the card back with-in 8 days of taking delivery. In that case it's simple. You can demand a full refund based on the law for purchase over a distant location. No reason has to be given. Just a change of mind is sufficient to qualify.

In Dutch: Wet kopen op afstand (has to be sent back within 7 working days - hope you didn't wait until 8).

Edit again...it gets even better: when a retailer doesn't notify you of this law, your 7 day period to send stuff back will begin from the moment you're made aware of this law by your retailer.

No, they got it back within 7 days. There is no doubt that I can get a full refund.


What I would like to know is if EVGA can sell there EVGA GTX 285 Hydro Copper with a different cooler that doesn't have the specs that they listed on there website without breaking the EU law?

There's no way you can know that you won't get what you saw on their website. There's nothing on the box that can give you an idea of what you are going to find in the box. The words Hydro Copper is just a sticker that they put on the box.

Can they sell it to us europeans without violating the EU law or did they find a backport to make it possible and screw us?

[Roger_D25]

Ideally A-Grey what would you like to happen, do you just want a refund or do you simply want the card you initially thought you were buying (the one pictured on the website)?

[Waterlogged]

Just an FYI.

All manufacturers reserve the right to change product specifications without any prior notification. It's always in the fine print somewhere.

Personally, I think that's what happened here and don't see any sort of resolution except getting your refund from P.O.S..

[Roger_D25]

This sounds stupid but I didn't even think about that Waterlogged but that is probably the most likely answer to what happened here (after reading your post above I browsed over to eVGA's site, just as you mention they do indeed mention that). I guess its the only way to protect themselves against situations like this. With that said its still dissapointing when your the one who gets a product that doesn't match the one you thought you were buying (with regards to both looks and specifications)!

[Alien Grey]

Ideally A-Grey what would you like to happen, do you just want a refund or do you simply want the card you initially thought you were buying (the one pictured on the website)?

I would like to have the graphics card that I thought I would get.

[Alien Grey]

Just an FYI.

All manufacturers reserve the right to change product specifications without any prior notification. It's always in the fine print somewhere.

Personally, I think that's what happened here and don't see any sort of resolution except getting your refund from P.O.S..

This sounds stupid but I didn't even think about that Waterlogged but that is probably the most likely answer to what happened here (after reading your post above I browsed over to eVGA's site, just as you mention they do indeed mention that). I guess its the only way to protect themselves against situations like this. With that said its still dissapointing when your the one who gets a product that doesn't match the one you thought you were buying (with regards to both looks and specifications)!

They can do what they want if it's still the same quality. This graphics that they gave me isn't worth the money (523 Euro) with the cooler it came. I think that I don't have to say that I feel like they've ripped me off.

It would certainly ruin the performance of my Swiftech 1/2" watercooling setup and I would have to use elbows to connect the tubes on the bottom side.

Elbows that was the solution that EVGA would have given me.

[Roger_D25]

Your absolutly correct A-Grey, even if you could shoehorn 1/2" barbs onto that block it would be a massive restriction given how small the block openings are (like most Invotek blocks in my opinion, their mostly for 1/4" line).

[Alien Grey]

Your absolutly correct A-Grey, even if you could shoehorn 1/2" barbs onto that block it would be a massive restriction given how small the block openings are (like most Invotek blocks in my opinion, their mostly for 1/4" line).

Nowhere do they mention that it isn't possible to use 1/2" fittings and that this Innovatek cooler isn't designed to use with a 1/2" setup.

Nowhere do they mention that it isn't possible to connect the fittings on the top side or connect it to use it for SLI.


On some retailers website you do see a picture of the graphics card with the Innovatek cooler. You only see a picture of the bottom side of the graphics card with the fittings screwed in.

The only information about this product that they gave me that I can find on the website of EVGA is a PDF of the Part Number 01G-P3-1290-ER with a picture of the bottom side of the graphics card.


If you look at the website of MPL you can still find the information of the EVGA GTX Hydro Copper with the same graphics card and cooler that you can find on the website of EVGA.

Nobody ever told them that this product isn't the same as what they show on their website and what they think they are selling.