GT300 new leaks?

[orangekiwii]

theres a site that totally debunks the stupid 30 fps myth i'm surprised it hasn't been posted yet

http://www.100fps.com/how_many_frame...humans_see.htm


theres a better one, but i can't seem to find it h/o

oh well i can't find it


besides crysis @ 60 fps looks way better and plays way better than it @ 30 fps... even though 30 fps is very playable

[trinibwoy]

Funny how no one can remember the days of CRTs. Can you see a CRT flickering @ 60Hz? If yes, then you can see 60FPS at the very least.

The reason you can see CRT's flickering is because it's physically scanning the screen at that frequency, line by line. LCD's don't scan so that removes a big part of the problem right there.

[saaya]

spculation and rumors...

[Final8ty]

The reason you can see CRT's flickering is because it's physically scanning the screen at that frequency, line by line. LCD's don't scan so that removes a big part of the problem right there.

The comment was not why, but to merely demonstrate that people can see the 60Hz flicker between refresh.
Now take that and imagine 30Hz refresh flicker & people here are saying you would not notice the difference in flicker.

[003]

And you (human eye) just can't see the difference between 30 and 60fps

No.

[trinibwoy]

The comment was not why, but to merely demonstrate that people can see the 60Hz flicker between refresh.
Now take that and imagine 30Hz refresh flicker & people here are saying you would not notice the difference in flicker.

Ah, gotcha.

[Talonman]

So how much memory will the 300 have? 1024MB's or 2048?

I hope it is a 2GB card...

[FischOderAal]

how could higher margins make them less money?

I don't think that NVIDIA's GTX 285 has a higher margin than AMD's HD-4890 (big chip vs small chip). Or are we talking about different margins?

For me: margin = (price - costs)/costs

Or am I confusing things? I'm (or better will be in a few weeks time) a mechanical engineer and we are not known to like economics xD

Which has the higher margin?
Chip A:
cost: 50 $
sold at: 80 $

Chip B:
cost: 30 $
sold at: 50 $

for the making money part you cant say nvidia going in the wrong direction. have you heard of tegra? the mobile mark is a cash cow because lap tops are cute and trendy.

My comment was on the performance desktop-chips only, not on the company in general Honestly I expected a little bit more interest by the companies in Tegra. It is a very capable solution.

[trinibwoy]

For me: margin = (price - costs)/costs

Or am I confusing things?

Nope, that's correct.

[Barys]

GT300 targets X13k pts?

http://translate.google.com/translat...hl=en&ie=UTF-8

IF true that would be a real monster.

[zalbard]

spculation and rumors...

Well, ATI card details are out, why not create a thread for Nvidia to balance things, right???

[trinibwoy]

I thought he was asking us to get back to the speculation and rumours

[orangekiwii]

I sure hope its 2GB as my 1GB card I can already tell is losing vram in certain games (GTA4, Fallout 3 [custom settings that make it look like 20x better], crysis with some texture packs that do the same thing)

[Wh!te Sh4dow]

One thing concerning the eye and fps story :
- on a movie and so on, the fps are equally distributed under a second. so yes there are 24 fps, and each frame is 1/24 second "long".
- in a game, fps vary all the time, and if you once have 24fps, there may be 40 fps in half a second then 8 fps the second half of that same second, which also gives an average of 24 fps. but when you will have the 8 fps period, you will notice the lagging, there's the trick. When people say "i need at least 60fps" is that with about 60fps (or above) there will be much more fps distributed in the same second, so the probability of once having less than 30 or whatever will be almost none, i hope i explained it correctly. The only important notion you have to get here is the way fps are distributed in time.

Concerning the GT300 now : for the X13k points in 3dmark V, in comparison, we have this :

with i7 920 @ 4Ghz CPU seems promising !

[orangekiwii]

uh thats wrong white shadow


the reason 24 fps doesn't seem laggy or anything is because the frames are blurred into each other...

thats why crysis doesn't seem laggy at 30 fps while other games do... because of the extensive blurring of the image


having 60fps negates the need for that because, as you said, the sheer number of frames being shown

[Humminn55]

uh thats wrong white shadow


the reason 24 fps doesn't seem laggy or anything is because the frames are blurred into each other...

What the heck are you talking about....films are "blurred" between frames?

Are you crazy? Have you never seen how films, and I'm not speaking of digital streaming or anything, but how films are shown in theatres?

Films are nothing more than a series of stills, shown one still at a time for 1/24 of a second onto the screen. The film is stopped for 1/24 of a second, light projected through the projector's apeture, through the stopped still frame which is projected onto the screen, the shutter then closes, the film advances one frame, shutter opens with still frame's image shown on the screen, and the process progresses.

That's why you hear the clicking and whirring from film projectors when a film is shown....the rapid opening and closing of the projector's shutter and the film's moving mechanism ratcheting the film forward one frame at a time, each 1/24 of a second.


They don't blur the frames together, the sense of motion is provided by your brain and retina.....due to the fact they can be fooled into "seeing" smooth motion if a series of stills are shown fast enough, smoothly enough.

[rpg711]

uh thats wrong white shadow


the reason 24 fps doesn't seem laggy or anything is because the frames are blurred into each other...

thats why crysis doesn't seem laggy at 30 fps while other games do... because of the extensive blurring of the image


having 60fps negates the need for that because, as you said, the sheer number of frames being shown

What about 59fps? or is 60 the magic number

Crysis doesn't seem laggy at 30 fps because it ALWAYS puts your GPU under a huge amount of demanding stuff, may it be physics processing, or just rendering. You rarely have framerate dips(which cause "lag") because almost everything in crysis(from a GPU's point of view) is equal... meaning 30 fps= 30(or close) constant fps. Normally when I am upgrading a new graphics card, I look for the minimum fps in games, who cares if it can render 9001 fps if it gets minimums of 1 fps?(extremities but point made, I hope)
I don't know about what exactly a GPU does, but that is what the myths of "30fps in crysis = 60 fps in other games". That, and the crysis engine is -RELATIVELY- optimized for less dips.

[justageek95]

An advantage of >30 FPS is input lag. If you have an average of 30 FPS that means each frame takes an average of 33.33 ms to render. If you have 120 FPS average then the average time it takes to render a frame is 8.33 ms.

Personally I notice a difference in both input lag and smoothness between 30 and 60 FPS even in Crysis.

[Talonman]

Concerning the GT300 now : for the X13k points in 3dmark V, in comparison, we have this : img-snip...

with i7 920 @ 4Ghz CPU seems promising !

Indeed...

X13K would be fun.

[orangekiwii]

frames are blurred in movies, films, and even tv shows...

why do you think if you pause it... ITS BLURRY?

seriously...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frame_rate

read down... its not a lot but its enough that makes it seem fluid

CRYSIS has blurring which lessons the fact that its fewer fps then you would have in other games

turn motion blur on and off in crysis at 20 fps and see which looks more FLUID

[GoldenTiger]

Indeed...

X13K would be fun.

Sure would!

[largon]

CRYSIS has blurring which lessons the fact that its fewer fps then you would have in other games

turn motion blur on and off in crysis at 20 fps and see which looks more FLUID

So why is it still fluild when motion blur is off?

[trinibwoy]

They don't blur the frames together, the sense of motion is provided by your brain and retina.....due to the fact they can be fooled into "seeing" smooth motion if a series of stills are shown fast enough, smoothly enough.

Film/tv frames are naturally blurred together due to the capturing mechanism, it's not a series of "stills" like with games.

[gurusan]

lol can't believe after all these years people are still having these FPS debates.

[Andrew LB]

Yup, it's been proven scientifically that fighter pilots in the USAF have been able to tell 140FPS or more, per articles I read at the time of the tests. Many can tell 30-50 FPS, and a lot can tell higher than that with ease. The whole "eye can only see 30fps" is a myth that's been debunked long ago.

Please be honest here and include in your "Facts" that those pilots are able to distinguish such things because under stressful combat situations with pure adrinaline pumping, the human brain will actually go into overdrive in it's "fight or flee" mode, making time actually seem to slow down. I saw this done where they used a digital screen that was running numbers by at a far greater rate of speed than people can normally read, yet when they had the same guy try to read them while in free-fall skydiving... he read them perfectly.