Gulftown "i9" in Q1 2010 (Digitimes)

[G0ldBr1ck]

Then there should be any economic text which covers this and yet there is not.

Alfred Slone who was the CEO of General Motors in 1941 put the theory of "Planned Obsolesce" into there production and have used it ever since. The rest of the industry followed shortly after. This is just one well known example. look it up

I think he used the term "built in obsolesce" tho.

[Movieman]

I don't think it's so much planned obsolescence as the perception of such by society.
My car is a 1994 Intrepid. All the buddies are" Dave, get a new car"
Why? It serves me well, does what I need and is dependable..Ok, so I lost a brake line Monday and had to drive like a formula 1 driver for 60 yards to save my life!
My point is that we don't need to toss things away when they are still serviceable but we choose to from either public pressure or from just having it programmed into us.
A well tuned P3-1000 w/512mb ram will do most anything you need for day to day use on a PC
A AMD X2-3800 is still an excellent machine.
We replace by choice, not by need..Excepting the gamers of course and in that case nothing that exists is fast enough for them!

[breathemetal]

Very well said

[Chad Boga]

I don't think it's so much planned obsolescence as the perception of such by society.
My car is a 1994 Intrepid. All the buddies are" Dave, get a new car"
Why? It serves me well, does what I need and is dependable..Ok, so I lost a brake line Monday and had to drive like a formula 1 driver for 60 yards to save my life!
My point is that we don't need to toss things away when they are still serviceable but we choose to from either public pressure or from just having it programmed into us.
A well tuned P3-1000 w/512mb ram will do most anything you need for day to day use on a PC
A AMD X2-3800 is still an excellent machine.
We replace by choice, not by need..Excepting the gamers of course and in that case nothing that exists is fast enough for them!

Exactly.

I still have computer gear that is over 10 years old and still working fine, but I have moved on.

Now who nows how long this gear will last for, but clearly it wasn't built for planned obsolescence and if when it first came out was built to last two or three times longer than it will, it would then be at a cost disadvantage to other products built to a standard still greater than my needs.

That is why it is so laughable that anyone could assert that modern economics is all driven by planned obsolescence and even more laughable that people come in to back up this nonsense.

[G0ldBr1ck]

I don't think it's so much planned obsolescence as the perception of such by society.
My car is a 1994 Intrepid. All the buddies are" Dave, get a new car"
Why? It serves me well, does what I need and is dependable..Ok, so I lost a brake line Monday and had to drive like a formula 1 driver for 60 yards to save my life!
My point is that we don't need to toss things away when they are still serviceable but we choose to from either public pressure or from just having it programmed into us.
A well tuned P3-1000 w/512mb ram will do most anything you need for day to day use on a PC
A AMD X2-3800 is still an excellent machine.
We replace by choice, not by need..Excepting the gamers of course and in that case nothing that exists is fast enough for them!

Funny you mention the Dodge Intrepid. I Work for Chrysler and most of the 90's My job revolved around those LH body cars. I say keep the car, some very fine engineering if I may say so myself.

As for the planned obsolescence, most of this like you say is do to Trend and "in style" by social Acceptance but it is planned none the less.

[Movieman]

I'm looking forward to Gulftown.
My Gainestown board is supposed to take them with no issues..12 cores/24 threads....MMMMMMMMMM

[perkam]

I'm looking forward to Gulftown.
My Gainestown board is supposed to take them with no issues..12 cores/24 threads....MMMMMMMMMM

I'm thinking it'll scale in a linear fashion : instant 50% performance jump in "some very important" apps

Perkam

[algorhythm]

What I want to know is if there will ever be another sub $800 LGA1366 CPU. It doesn't look like it...

[[XC] gomeler]

What I want to know is if there will ever be another sub $800 LGA1366 CPU. It doesn't look like it...

Why do you say that? LGA1366 may be the performance socket but surely Intel must recognize that LGA1366 wouldn't be as popular if they had launched with a $500 chip. Right now there isn't an $800 bracket, there is the $250 to $350 range which is acceptable for budget stuff, and then the next bin around $400-$500. Anything past that is a halo product and of such small volume versus the bread and butter that it doesn't count. Gulftown may be a massive upgrade compared to Bloomfield but if they market a 1P chip surely they'll have a chip in the $250 to $350 bracket at launch.

[saaya]

It's going to be fast enough to turn the corners of your mouth upwards..

with what? extra cores?
which i need for.... what?
fyi im running my 920 with ht enabled and 3 cores disabled since it saves loads of power and gets me a higher overclock... performance is about the same as with 2 cores and ht and i see absolutely no gain whatsoever with 4 cores and ht... in any app i use... ever...

[Gamekiller]

with what? extra cores?
which i need for.... what?
fyi im running my 920 with ht enabled and 3 cores disabled since it saves loads of power and gets me a higher overclock... performance is about the same as with 2 cores and ht and i see absolutely no gain whatsoever with 4 cores and ht... in any app i use... ever...

DC projects?
Namely WCG.

[JPQY]

Also with Chess programs -> You never have enough speed and cores..till chess is solved...i hope the Gulftown will come out for the 1366 socket,
because i have not see yet this will be sure!

[haylui]

256 threads era is near......

[Movieman]

with what? extra cores?
which i need for.... what?
fyi im running my 920 with ht enabled and 3 cores disabled since it saves loads of power and gets me a higher overclock... performance is about the same as with 2 cores and ht and i see absolutely no gain whatsoever with 4 cores and ht... in any app i use... ever...

Do some Dc work or some encoding or PS rendering and you will see the difference..

[gOJDO]

with what? extra cores?
which i need for.... what?
fyi im running my 920 with ht enabled and 3 cores disabled since it saves loads of power and gets me a higher overclock... performance is about the same as with 2 cores and ht and i see absolutely no gain whatsoever with 4 cores and ht... in any app i use... ever...

QFT!
What we need for a desktop and notebook is a raw performance!
I would upgrade my 920 to a Gulfy because of the better OC-ing ability, higher IPC and lower temperatures. I might disable HT because it will slightly boost threads IPC.

[Carfax]

This will be the CPU I build my next upgrade around..

[Hornet331]

Alfred Slone who was the CEO of General Motors in 1941 put the theory of "Planned Obsolesce" into there production and have used it ever since. The rest of the industry followed shortly after. This is just one well known example. look it up

I think he used the term "built in obsolesce" tho.

I still have a problem with the terme cause it lables all technological advancements as "planned obsolescence".

If we stick to car analogies, a fine example is ABS... ABS tech was already there since the 1930ies but took almost 40 year to bring them to the point where they were usfull and usable in cars... so does that mean that all cars sold after 1930 where already planed to be obsolent by the companies, cause the tech was already there?

Same could be said for saftyblets, crumple zones, ESC and much more.

For myself i call this innovation, theres a new product with new technology that weren't available when the old product was build and leads to obsolesce of the old product.

[[XC] Synthetickiller]

with what? extra cores?
which i need for.... what?
fyi im running my 920 with ht enabled and 3 cores disabled since it saves loads of power and gets me a higher overclock... performance is about the same as with 2 cores and ht and i see absolutely no gain whatsoever with 4 cores and ht... in any app i use... ever...

Thanks for mentioning this.

I just don't see the need for a 6 core w/ HT cpu on a desktop. Besides folding, etc, what else can benefit from that many cores? Very few games support a quad now, so whats the point? Even extreme gamers can't benefit from this improvement, at least for another 2-4 years, depending how how development goes.

I think I'll go i7 since I simply can't utilize extra cores, unless i9 is the same price or the clock for clock speed is dramatically increased. My q6600 does everything I need and more, and although I want to be extreme, I don't want to waste power either.

[saaya]

Do some Dc work or some encoding or PS rendering and you will see the difference..

your basically telling me i should move to another city so that i need to drive on the highway every day to work and can then justify a beefier car cause it gets me through traffic faster :P

why should i change my way of working/living to fit the needs of my hardware?
thats not how it works... technology is supposed to aid us, not force us to do things diferently... :P

but you never stop, do you? hehehe
your title should be WCG Evangelist

[Movieman]

your basically telling me i should move to another city so that i need to drive on the highway every day to work and can then justify a beefier car cause it gets me through traffic faster :P

why should i change my way of working/living to fit the needs of my hardware?
thats not how it works... technology is supposed to aid us, not force us to do things diferently... :P

but you never stop, do you? hehehe
your title should be WCG Evangelist

Not at all. It all depends on your personal use. Not all chips will be 6 core and if you don't need them then don't buy them.
Hell, a E8600 running up at 4000 and very controlable on air will suit your uses.
And yes, I never stop.. The goals are worth the effort.

[perkam]

why should i change my way of working/living to fit the needs of my hardware?
thats not how it works... technology is supposed to aid us, not force us to do things diferently... :P

Blasphemy !!! Close Thy mouth and Repent foul mouthed knave !! How dare thy question the words of a cruncher !!

Crunchers need all the cores they can get as do those who require workstations and xtreme forms of multi-tasking.

Though yes, those that require six cores are very few in number compared to those that don't. But then again, Intel could have beaten phenom without HT, so one can argue even that is overkill, but we still have it

Perkam

[saaya]

i never said crunchers wont want or need 6cores... i just said most people dont...
and dave said i should get 6 cores to which i replied, no i shouldnt

but yes, for crunching and video editing and rendering 6 cores will be sweet, and with ht this should be very very impressive...
you needed a 4 socket board for that performance only a few years ago

isnt it sad that cpu performance doesnt scale for normal users as it does for crunchers?
since conroe there have been barely any notably performance improvents in the cpu segment for normal end users...
think about it, whats the performance diference in a normal gaming 24/7 system of a conroe 4ghz compared to gulftown?
maybe 10% in some apps?

for crunchers, the performance improvement will be almost 600%
but for desktop usage its maybe 30% at best in some few scenarios...
i really really think both intel and amd are on the wrong way cpu development wise...
theres no way you could re-code the os and all the apps we use every day to get anywhere near the 600% improvement for a gaming 24/7 desktop scenario with gulftown vs a conroe at the same speed... some things just cant be parallelized...

we need faster cores and better ipc, not more cores...
that will benefit everybody, crunchers, servers, desktop users...

[Movieman]

i never said crunchers wont want or need 6cores... i just said most people dont...
and dave said i should get 6 cores to which i replied, no i shouldnt

but yes, for crunching and video editing and rendering 6 cores will be sweet, and with ht this should be very very impressive...
you needed a 4 socket board for that performance only a few years ago

isnt it sad that cpu performance doesnt scale for normal users as it does for crunchers?
since conroe there have been barely any notably performance improvents in the cpu segment for normal end users...
think about it, whats the performance diference in a normal gaming 24/7 system of a conroe 4ghz compared to gulftown?
maybe 10% in some apps?

for crunchers, the performance improvement will be almost 600%
but for desktop usage its maybe 30% at best in some few scenarios...
i really really think both intel and amd are on the wrong way cpu development wise...
theres no way you could re-code the os and all the apps we use every day to get anywhere near the 600% improvement for a gaming 24/7 desktop scenario with gulftown vs a conroe at the same speed... some things just cant be parallelized...

we need faster cores and better ipc, not more cores...
that will benefit everybody, crunchers, servers, desktop users...

Your correct, the simple problem is they hit a heat wall and to increase performance added cores instead of MHz..
That simple, they don't know how to build a 7000mhz air cooled chip yet.. Would be nice if they did but until then we live with more cores or as I suggested to you, build a E8600 dual core and clock the crap out of it.
I bet you could get close to 5000 on water cooling and that should be fast enough for you.. and cheap too..

[JPQY]

I don't know if you see Chess as a game or application...but it's still a boardgame..and they are just the right way to go with these multi core cpu's!!
Many years we have wait for them.
How more cores i see..how more the chess engine like it...from the E6600 to Q6600 and now I7 core 920 i get millions and millions more positions in one second!
And it will comes better when we have the cluster version from these chess engines,because then we can connect different computers to each other and use all
these cores from these connected computers...then it will come interesting!!
When the games comes multi core then is chess already step further...Cluster!

[saaya]

Your correct, the simple problem is they hit a heat wall and to increase performance added cores instead of MHz..
That simple, they don't know how to build a 7000mhz air cooled chip yet.. Would be nice if they did but until then we live with more cores or as I suggested to you, build a E8600 dual core and clock the crap out of it.
I bet you could get close to 5000 on water cooling and that should be fast enough for you.. and cheap too..

well thats what doesnt make sense though imo...
they hit a power ceiling? gulftown will have 6 cores in a 135W tdp, right?
thats 22.5W per core... now remove uncore and L3 cache and imc, and your left with an actual tdp per core of less than 20W... that can hardly be the power limit...

so intel and amd can produce less than 20W cores at around 3ghz, but they cant produce 40W cores that either clock notably higher or have a better ipc?
sorry, but im not buying it :P

taking the core apart and reworking it means a LOT of r&d and r&d is biiiig money... just doubling your previous design up and maybe changing a few bits here and there is much cheaper... thats the way the dram industry and nand industry works, and i think intel and amd want to go down that route to save costs and avoid delays and failures when tinkering with the actual cores...

all fair and fine... if this would actually work for the end users like it does with nand and dram... but it doesnt... id really like to know how much power is wasted on a global basis on additional cpu cores being idle... it must be an insane amount of energy...

bring in atom... now THATS innovation!
intel again stumbles over a great design as with the pentium M, and what do they do? AGAIN they break out in political internal BS arguments and instead of pushing forward innovation they cripple the design artificially so they can keep ramming more cores down everybodies throats and charge for it big time... and amd? they dont have anything comparable so they dont even try to compete... oh please... the cpu industry is in a really sad state...

no wonder intel pushes for gpus, they know that they risk pulling a blue ray victory, winning the cpu segment over once and for good, to find out most people really dont care about fast cpus anymore