AMD: You'll be pleasantly surprised

[Donnie27]

This came to mind too. However they got rid of CEO Captain a$$ hat to things have been looking up

JohnZS Quote:

You mean this dude?

He did one thing right, he helped the EU get most of the 1.8 Billion they've invested in AMD back

[TheVaLVe]

Never have any problem with Nvidia or ATI on hardware or software wise. Bang for the bucks still the main point for me.

[JohnZS]

He did one thing right, he helped the EU get most of the 1.8 Billion they've invested in AMD back

True....very true

Joking aside ATi and nVidia have the same driver issue at the moment with Windows 7 RC (or the issue COULD be Windows 7 RC itself?) the issue I am on about is.... ASPECT RATIO SCALING.

Works perfectly in Vista and XP, but is flakey in Windows 7 for both nVidia and ATi users.

Back on topic, nVidia will have the performance crown for DirectX11, however ATi MIGHT be first out the door with DirectX11 products, as I sense nVidia will follow in November, yet ATi will lead the way in Late September.

(Anyone who thinks nVidia will not have the fastest single GPU solution only has to read about DirectX compute and other computational functions of DirectX11....and then realise that the current crop of nVidia hardware already does this.....and VERY well)

John

[zalbard]

Back on topic, nVidia will have the performance crown for DirectX11, however ATi MIGHT be first out the door with DirectX11 products, as I sense nVidia will follow in November, yet ATi will lead the way in Late September.

Uh, that's just rumours... Nvidia will be late for sure, unless they are secretly planning the release, which I doubt. ATI even demonstrated their cards already.
And you have no idea about ATI chip performance and Nvidia chip performance, how can you compare them... Best not make such assumptions or people will put your words in your signature now and back into your mouth after the release if you are wrong.

[marten_larsson]

Back on topic, nVidia will have the performance crown for DirectX11, however ATi MIGHT be first out the door with DirectX11 products, as I sense nVidia will follow in November, yet ATi will lead the way in Late September.

(Anyone who thinks nVidia will not have the fastest single GPU solution only has to read about DirectX compute and other computational functions of DirectX11....and then realise that the current crop of nVidia hardware already does this.....and VERY well)

John

Sure, Nvidia will probably hold the fastest single-gpu solution once more. By looking at die size (rumors) that should be quite obvious otherwise Nvidia really has failed. But AMD will be performance leader with their X2 and have best bang for buck at most price segments (or at least be the once cashing in with their smaller die strategy).

[trinibwoy]

Sure, Nvidia will probably hold the fastest single-gpu solution once more. By looking at die size (rumors) that should be quite obvious otherwise Nvidia really has failed. But AMD will be performance leader with their X2 and have best bang for buck at most price segments (or at least be the once cashing in with their smaller die strategy).

Not sure why you think things are going to happen in the exact same way they did last generation. RV770 definitely smacked Nvidia in the face but the surprise factor is gone. The same trick won't work twice. Right now they know/think ATI is going small and fast again. The surprise would be if ATI reverses direction and goes big die again.

Also, while there is a correlation between cost and die size it isn't a linear correlation. There are other variables at play - Nvidia and AMD don't pay TSMC the same price per wafer. So that could explain why Nvidia can afford to counter-slash prices even with larger chips. Still they can't enjoy having to do so. But they pretty much have no choice but to go with a larger die given their GPGPU centric architecture. And this talk of MIMD like functionality is just going to make it worse - unless game engines start to make heavy use of more general computing algorithms where stuff like that matters.

[cegras]

Not sure why you think things are going to happen in the exact same way they did last generation. RV770 definitely smacked Nvidia in the face but the surprise factor is gone. The same trick won't work twice. Right now they know/think ATI is going small and fast again. The surprise would be if ATI reverses direction and goes big die again.

Also, while there is a correlation between cost and die size it isn't a linear correlation. There are other variables at play - Nvidia and AMD don't pay TSMC the same price per wafer. So that could explain why Nvidia can afford to counter-slash prices even with larger chips. Still they can't enjoy having to do so. But they pretty much have no choice but to go with a larger die given their GPGPU centric architecture. And this talk of MIMD like functionality is just going to make it worse - unless game engines start to make heavy use of more general computing algorithms where stuff like that matters.

That would be a bad surprise.

But ATI seems to be on a roll, and I'm expecting the similar situation to occur once more. If both companies enter the next round (e.g. dx11) with no fundamental shift in strategy, what else of an outcome will you predict?

For the record, nvidia will probably still hold the performance crown as well as consumer recognition. But I have a feeling that reviewers are shifting their perspectives from high end to what dominates the value segment, which is reflecting most consumers desire. So I think ATI will come out on top in the end, building on their previous 4xxx success. Of course, they will probably lose due to really insufficient marketing and not pushing enough to position their products (they need to send ads to tvs, magazines, whatever).

[marten_larsson]

Not sure why you think things are going to happen in the exact same way they did last generation. RV770 definitely smacked Nvidia in the face but the surprise factor is gone. The same trick won't work twice. Right now they know/think ATI is going small and fast again. The surprise would be if ATI reverses direction and goes big die again.

Also, while there is a correlation between cost and die size it isn't a linear correlation. There are other variables at play - Nvidia and AMD don't pay TSMC the same price per wafer. So that could explain why Nvidia can afford to counter-slash prices even with larger chips. Still they can't enjoy having to do so. But they pretty much have no choice but to go with a larger die given their GPGPU centric architecture. And this talk of MIMD like functionality is just going to make it worse - unless game engines start to make heavy use of more general computing algorithms where stuff like that matters.

Well, for starters it was what they have been touting for the last year or so. Secondly they did great with RV770 and why not continuing a winning concept? AMD is clearly going for bang for buck in CPUs and GPUs and aiming more on mainstream than ultra high end. With GPUs they can reach high end with the X2s but with CPUs that's simply not possible.

Even though the prices on wafers may quite different it's still safe to say that ATI/AMD has the edge in ability to cut costs.

[trinibwoy]

That would be a bad surprise.

I wouldn't say that. Why wouldn't we want a bigger RV770? There's nothing inherently good about a small die (note that power consumption of RV770 is pretty much equivalent to the much bigger GT200b).

Well, for starters it was what they have been touting for the last year or so. Secondly they did great with RV770 and why not continuing a winning concept?

Sure I expect them to follow the same strategy as well but AMD doesn't operate in a vacuum. Each company's success is contingent on what the competition is doing. So while RV770 looked like a bang/$ winner vs Nvidia's ridiculous GT200 pricing it won't look that way again unless Nvidia makes the same mistake. That would be hard to do considering AMD is shooting first this round. So unless AMD pulls another R300 and totally knocks it out of the park we shouldn't see the gross mispricing on Nvidia's side that made RV770 look so good at launch.

[marten_larsson]

I wouldn't say that. Why wouldn't we want a bigger RV770? There's nothing inherently good about a small die (note that power consumption of RV770 is pretty much equivalent to the much bigger GT200b).



Sure I expect them to follow the same strategy as well but AMD doesn't operate in a vacuum. Each company's success is contingent on what the competition is doing. So while RV770 looked like a bang/$ winner vs Nvidia's ridiculous GT200 pricing it won't look that way again unless Nvidia makes the same mistake. That would be hard to do considering AMD is shooting first this round. So unless AMD pulls another R300 and totally knocks it out of the park we shouldn't see the gross mispricing on Nvidia's side that made RV770 look so good at launch.

Of course Nvidia won't price their cards as badly as they did with GT200 but what if they have no other choice? They can't keep losing money. AMD have kept the prices on 4*** below those of Nvidia at all times making sure they were the most beneficial bang for buck even though it's been a very close race. Still they've managed to make money meanwhile Nvidia lost $100M wasn't it?

The main key for AMD should still be to win over some OEMs, that's where the cash is. Will be nice to see Q2 results and what impact PhII has.