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Thread: How to set up GTL Ref Values for 45nm & 65nm

  1. #601
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    Quote Originally Posted by jas420221 View Post
    Can someone explain with the GTL refs for the cores (.63 and .67 were are stock on P5Q) are different when its stated GTLref is .67 of FSB?
    It's because with 45nm chips they use a lower Vtt of 1.10v as default, same goes with P45 NB it uses a lower default voltage than the older X48/X38/P35 chipsets.

    The GTL0/3 and GTL1/2 aren't cores, they are mid/end GTL reference pins.

    0/3 are data bus pins. 1/2 are address bus pins. They are logic sampling voltages, taken mid swing and end swing.

    0/3 are kept down to 0.63x since data strobes aren't affected by signal ringing, and lower they are, the earlier swing logic can be determined and data transferred across the bus. It's to keep the low logic swing from overshooting too high before its stabilized, and high swing from undershooting too low before its stabilized. More accurate the receiver is at logic swing pickup, the less likely for inverse data strobe to be read as non-inverse data strobe, and the other way around.

    Personally I think Intel optimized the P45 for the lower data bus GTL for the CPU to maximize the much cheaper parts performance. Nothing more nothing less. Lower voltages on NB and CPU require more expensive circuitry to accurately calculate swings and slews. Less room for error, and with P45 being what it was I don't think there was any other way as they couldn't make it more expensive.
    Last edited by mikeyakame; 03-19-2009 at 04:11 AM.

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  2. #602
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    Excellent. Thank you!

  3. #603
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by mikeyakame View Post
    Start with around 1.45v CPU and 1.22-1.28v Vtt and CPU0/3 Gtl around 0.67x, CPU1/2 GTL around 0.64-0.65x. NB GTL around 0.67x
    really had to put 1.45v vcore, do not imagine that it would need all that
    but now stable, tested in IntelBurnTest

    Bios - P5Q-E - Q6600 VID 1.2500v

    450x8 = 3600mhz
    DDR2 @ 1131mhz 5 5-4-14

    CPU Voltage - 1.4500v
    CPU GTL 0/2 - 0.630
    CPU GTL 1/3 - 0.645
    CPU PLL - 1.54v
    vFSB - 1.28v
    vRam - 2.16v
    vNB - 1.26v
    NB GTL - 0.635
    vSB - 1.10v
    vPCI-E - 1.50v


    not yet tested with less
    to 3.8ghz, as would be?

    thanks
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  4. #604
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    Try 471 of FSB, I have tried:

    0.60x
    0.63x

    0.64x
    0.66x

    0.65x
    0.65x

    0.65x
    0.67x

    0.69x
    0.69x

    PLL 1.54v - 1.56v - 1.58v
    VTT 1.30v - 1.32v - 1.36v
    NB 1.30v-1.32v - 1.36v

    GTL - .64 x .65 x .66 x

    CPU and NB Skew 100 and 200PS

    Do not pass the 2 / 5 IBT test.

    What can be?

    The memories are stable.


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  5. #605
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    your clock jitter is probably too large at that fsb. try either +-2-3mhz of 471 and see if its any better.

    you might have found your limits.

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    Guys could you tell me do I have to mess with GTL's if I haven't touch VTT?

    And 2nd question can NB GTL enchance DRAM overclocking?
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  7. #607
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    Hey all needin some help concerning GTL settings for my setup.

    Current settings are as follows:

    FSB=498
    CPU SKEW=DELAY 200
    NB SKEW= DELAY 100
    DRAM FREQ= 1196
    MEM OC CHARGER= ENABLE
    AI CLOCK TWISTER= STRONGER
    PL=8

    (VOLTAGE SETTINGS WITHIN BIOS)
    CPU VOLTAGE 1.6
    CPU PLL= 1.59275
    FSB TERM V= 1.55050
    DRAM V= 2.21
    NB V= 1.60350
    SB 1.5= 1.5
    SB 1.1= 1.1

    GTL 0= -45
    GTL 1= +20
    GTL 2= -45
    GTL 3= +20
    NB GTL= -25

    Please advise of any changes to GTL's that need to be done, and how do i figure out if it needs to be + or -??



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  8. #608
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    Exclamation

    Quote Originally Posted by CryptiK View Post
    For a good explanation of what GTL Ref voltages are and do, go here:

    http://www.thetechrepository.com/showthread.php?t=87

    I will simply explain how to set them for your particular CPU and motherboard. They are very important for quad core cpu's, but also affect the stability of dual core cpu's.

    A GTL Ref voltage is derived from the Vtt (vFSB) voltage. The GTL voltage is a certain percentage of the Vtt so to set it you use a multiplier (eg: 0.667x) which means the resulting voltage is 0.667x (66.7% of) the Vtt voltage.

    For 45nm CPU's, on boards where you just set the multiplier, you should begin with the 0.635x multiplier for each core, and for 65nm CPU's, you begin with the 0.667x setting for each core. From there you tweak as necessary to find the optimum sweet spot for you cpu & FSB.

    Some new boards (like Maximus II Formula) use a different method for setting the GTL Ref voltages. They do not simply have a multiplier, the multiplier remains fixed and you enter a 'Y value' that modifies the resultant voltage.

    If you have a 45nm cpu, you are aiming for the voltage given by the 0.635x multiplier, so to work out what to put for the the 0.667x GTL Ref (Y) values (it will be a negative number to make the resulting voltage the same as the 0.635x GTL Ref voltage), use the following eqn, but substitute the Vtt you use, in place of the example Vtt.

    In the examples given, I have rounded off to 3 decimal places throughout for simplicity.

    For me, Vtt = 1.14v

    Equation:

    Vtt x 0.667 + Y = Vtt x 0.635


    1.14v x 0.667 + Y = 1.14v x 0.635
    0.760v + Y = 0.724v
    Y = 0.724v - 0.760v
    Y = -0.036v
    Y = -36 mv

    So to verify it:
    1.14v x 0.635 = 0.724v
    1.14v x 0.667 = 0.760v

    0.760v - 0.036v = 0.724v

    or an easier, non algebraic alternative:

    1.14v x 0.635 = 0.724v
    1.14v x 0.667 = 0.760v
    0.724v - 0.760v = -0.036v
    = -36mv

    Round up to the nearest selectable bios value, in Maximus II Formula bios this is -40mv

    So now you set the 0.667x 'Y value' to -40mv

    You have now made the 0.667x GTL voltage as close as possible to the 0.635x GTL voltage.

    If you have a 65nm cpu, you are aiming for the voltage given by the 0.667x multiplier, so to work out what to put for the the 0.635x GTL Ref (Y) values (it will be a positive number to make the resulting voltage the same as the 0.667x GTL Ref voltage), use the following eqn, but substitute the Vtt you use, in place of the example Vtt.

    For me, Vtt = 1.14v

    Equation:

    Vtt x 0.667 = Vtt x 0.635 + Y


    1.14v x 0.667 = 1.14v x 0.635 + Y
    0.760v = 0.724v + Y
    Y = 0.760v - 0.724v
    Y = 0.036V
    Y = 36 mv

    So to verify it:
    1.14v x 0.667 = 0.760v
    1.14v x 0.635 = 0.724v

    0.724v + 0.036v = 0.760v

    or an easier, non algebraic alternative:

    1.14v x 0.667 = 0.760v
    1.14v x 0.635 = 0.724v
    0.760v - 0.724v = 0.036v
    = 36mv

    Round up to the nearest selectable bios value, in Maximus II Formula bios this is +40mv

    So now you set the 0.635x 'Y value' to +40mv

    You have now made the 0.635x GTL voltage as close as possible to the 0.667x GTL voltage.

    **EDIT**

    Naming and meaning of the CPU gtl ref's, and land pin assignment names (Kindly provided by Mikeyakame):

    CPU GTL Reference (0/2 Lane0/Lane2)
    GTL Reference Data Strobe Input Buffer Middle/End Landing Pins 0 & 2. (GTLREF0/GTLREF2)

    CPU GTL Reference (1/3 Lane1/Lane3)
    GTL Reference Address Strobe Input Buffer Middle/End Landing Pins 1 & 3 ( GTLREF1/GTLREF3 )

    For quad-core multi-die chips:
    Middle Landing Pins (GTLREF0/1) act as input buffer for DIE0, End Landing Pins ( GTLREF2/3 ) act as input buffer for DIE1.

    For dual core single-die chips:
    Middle Landing Pin (GTLREF0/1) acts as input buffer for DIE0, End Landing Pin (GTLREF2/3) uncertain if used. Either unused and terminated to open drain Vtt or used as reference for middle pins as margin of error.

    Things to note concerning adjustment:
    Address strobe Pins (GTLREF1/3) will generally tolerate small variance with respect to reference voltage accuracy, and should in most cases be setup a little lower with respect to Data strobe Reference multiplier or voltage.
    Why?
    Probably the same reason as any other reference or input voltage for clock strobes, signal resonance or cross talking.

    Data strobe pins (GTLREF0/2) will not tolerate being out by more than 0.5-1% below nominal, but will tolerate slightly more above nominal. Keep set values above Address Strobe GTL multiplier/voltage offset.
    Why?
    Works better in almost all situations, don't know why until I get a chance to monitor on a logic analyzer.
    By How Much?
    Varies according to FSB base clock, higher the FSB BCLK the smaller the difference will probably need to be at least with respect to the Diff Amplitude driving the clock.

    Also not that when you are adjusting the GTL Refs with a board that using a fixed multiplier and a modifier (eg: +/- in mv) the resultant Vref will be slightly different for the data strobe lanes and the address strobe lanes, as shown by this example (Kindly provided by Seban):

    Calculations made for a Vtt = 1.365v

    GTL Ref 0 = +50mv = 0.9336025v
    GTL Ref 1 = +10mv = 0.9381305v
    GTL Ref 2 = +50mv
    GTL Ref 3 = +10mv

    GTL Ref 0 = +30mv = 0.9136025v
    GTL Ref 1 = -10mv = 0.9181305v
    GTL Ref 2 = +30mv
    GTL Ref 3 = -10mv

    As you can see, the resulting Vrefs are not quite equal, but they are close enough for the sake of GTL Ref adjustment. The aim is not to have the Vrefs all exactly the same, but to find the GTL Ref settings that give you the most stability.

    **EDIT 2**

    Attached to this post is a spreadsheet kindly made by Seban, allowing easy calculation of GTL Refs required, as a starting point fo your tweaking. Here is his description of it:


    I got little present for every one for new year .

    It is simple Excel file which is counting GTLs and NB GTL as well as new Multiplier for you and few other minor values for given Vtt. It is nothing special but saves time and allows to tweak GTLs without asking for help and getting too much into it.

    How to use it:

    First type in desired / currently used vtt voltage as in your bios (or rather the way it looks loaded in Everest for example - but bios one is also working fine)

    Secondly put some correction numbers and watch how GTL values are changing (Max and Min values of GTL for given VTT are also shown there).

    The goal is to figure out which GTL works best for you for one VTT - in most cases the same GTLs voltages will work for different VTTs or very similar ones (or sometimes not ). So when we switch Vtt we would need to adjust GTLrefs to values which will give same or close to same GTLs as working previous ones for different vtt.

    Anyway have fun using it, I created it to make my life easier and it does the job.

    PS. There are 2 sets of values to compare between different VTT.
    PS2. This calculator is made for MF2 board but will work with all boards that got correction number in equation (like +40 or - 20 and so on).



    "PS2. This calculator is made for MF2 board but will work with all boards that got correction number in equation (like +40 or - 20 and so on).
    Attached Files GTL_Calcuator_by_Seban.zip (5.6 KB, 1429 views) "


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  9. #609
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    Greetings!

    I'm trying to tweak the GTL values on my DFI DK P45+, but I'm not sure about some things.
    Is GTL 1/3 really used when you're dealing with a dual core?
    I was looking in the bios and I have a wide range of settings for the 0/2, but only 4 settings for the 1/3 : 0.67,0.63,0.61,0.58.
    And also for the NB, just 4 values.

    So, how do I set these GTLs? I know that the voltage should be around 0.8 - 1V, so for a 1.3V nb voltage I should use a 0.61 gtl.
    What about the CPU?
    I'm going to calculate that according to the VTT, right? What about the FSB Vref? I leave that to 2A.

    So, the only settings I should alter are the GTL 0/2, the GTL for the nb and the fsb vref, right?

    Thanks!

  10. #610
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    Guys can anyone Help me.. i cant stabilize at 4ghz... Here's my settings and system setup... very much appreciate any help.. tia..

    FSB: 500
    Multi: x8
    VTT: 1.46V
    VCore: 1.55V
    GTL ref 0/2: 0.69x
    GTL ref 1/3: 0.69x
    CPU PLL: 1.52V
    NB Volt: 1.4V
    NB GTL: .68x

    Here's what i got so far...


    System Specs:

    Intel Xeon X3210
    Asus P5Q Deluxe 1702 bios
    Corsair Dominator 8500C5D version 1.2
    MSI HD4850 Virus Edition
    Corsair HX620 PSU
    Last edited by Padol_Inc; 06-02-2009 at 10:00 PM.

  11. #611
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    The Dx does not like 500FSB at 1:1 ratio I learned (see P5Q Deluxe thread instead of this one). 1200Mhz ram should help it out. It helped me. Besides your vcore is already quite high at 1.55v. Especially if you are on air.

    Be happy at 3.9Ghz with that mobo.

  12. #612
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    Thanks jas..
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  13. #613
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    Very nice work mans
    Last edited by xandelly; 06-11-2009 at 10:17 AM.
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  14. #614
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    Hello guys,

    May I ask for your help?
    I would like to improve my overclocking but after reading this thread i'm still not sure to understand how to fix GTL values.

    My computer is the following one :

    Q9650 @ 4.2GHz (9*467)
    2*2048mb Gskill Pi black 8500
    Asus P5Q deluxe bios 1306
    ifx14-10 + scythe slipstream
    PSu corsair HX520

    For the moment my bios :

    AI Overclock tuner: Manual

    CPU Ratio Setting: x9,0
    FSB Frequency: 467MHz
    PCI-E Frequency: 100MHz
    FSB Strap to North Bridge: 333
    DRAM Frequency: 935MHz
    DRAM CLK Skew on Channel : tout sur AUTO
    DRAM Timing Control: Manual

    1st Information:

    CAS# Latency: 5
    DRAM RAS# to CAS# Delay: 5
    DRAM RAS# Precharge: 5
    DRAM RAS# Activate to Precharge: 12
    RAS# to RAS# Delay : AUTO
    Row Refresh Cycle Time: 45
    Write Recovery Time: AUTO
    Read to Precharge Time: AUTO
    DRAM Static Read Control : DISABLED
    DRAM Read Training: DISABLED
    MEM. OC Charger: DISABLED
    AI Clock Twister: MODERATE
    AI Transaction Booster: MANUAL
    Common Performance Level: 10
    All Pull-Ins: ENABLED
    CPU Voltage : 1,30000
    CPU GTL Voltage Reference (0/2) : AUTO
    CPU GTL Voltage Reference (1/3) : AUTO
    CPU PLL Voltage : 1,50
    FSB Termination Voltage : 1,28
    DRAM Voltage : 1.80
    NBridge Voltage : 1.24
    NBridge GTL Reference : AUTO
    SBridge Voltage : 1,10
    PCIE SATA Voltage : 1,50
    Load Line Calibration : ENABLED
    CPU Spread Spectrum : DISABLED
    PCIE Spread Spectrum : DISABLED
    CPU Clock Skew : NORMAL
    NBridge Clock Skew : NORMAL




    Do I have to use the standard values (according to the bios) or something else?
    I would appreciate your help.
    Thank you very much in advance.

  15. #615
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    Experimentation to see what gives you the best results is the key to GTL Ref tuning.

    Start with the standard values, and try lowering them, as well as increasing them. See what gives your CPU / board the most stability. You may even gain a few more FSB and MHz as a result.

    Some CPU's like lower values like 0.61 - 0.630x, others like higher values like 0.690x, some like the same values on each GTL Ref setting like 0.670x (0/2) and 0.670x (1/3), others like a higher 1/3 GTL Ref than 0/2 GTL Ref, like 0.670x (0/2) and 0.690x (1/3). There are many possible cominations, you have to try them out.

    It might help you to write down on some paper the combinations you try, and the results they give. When you have tried all the sensible options, you will be able to see which ones worked best for your gear
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  16. #616
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    All right thank you very much for your help.
    I will try this ^_^

  17. #617
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    Hello everyone,
    guys, help to set the value of GTL Refer. I read several times the first post, but he did not understand. (I am sorry for my "English".)
    Now adjust the following:



    Asus P5Q Deluxe, E8400 [E0] Vid=1,25V

  18. #618
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    Welcome to XS Saturn. I will give you the same advice I gave the guy who posted before you.

    Quote Originally Posted by CryptiK View Post
    Experimentation to see what gives you the best results is the key to GTL Ref tuning.

    Start with the standard values, and try lowering them, as well as increasing them. See what gives your CPU / board the most stability. You may even gain a few more FSB and MHz as a result.

    Some CPU's like lower values like 0.61 - 0.630x, others like higher values like 0.690x, some like the same values on each GTL Ref setting like 0.670x (0/2) and 0.670x (1/3), others like a higher 1/3 GTL Ref than 0/2 GTL Ref, like 0.670x (0/2) and 0.690x (1/3). There are many possible cominations, you have to try them out.

    It might help you to write down on some paper the combinations you try, and the results they give. When you have tried all the sensible options, you will be able to see which ones worked best for your gear
    Happy testing.
    Last edited by CryptiK; 07-13-2009 at 04:34 AM.
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  19. #619
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    hi
    I need a simple tip finetuning this thing. My skews and GTL refs are all default. E8400 E0 plus P5E64 WS


    With 2x1gb ddr3 @ 1600mhz.

    500fsb x 9 = 4500mhz 1.3vcore = IBT stable


    I upgraded to 8GB ram (4x2gb). So now:

    With 4x2gb ddr3 @ 1333mhz
    500fsb x 8.5 = 4250mhz 1.3vcore = IBT stable. But at 4500mhz is unstable.



    I am missing 250mhz from the added Ram.
    How can the Skews and GTL refs help me?


    thanks

  20. #620
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    Adding ram wont affect your CPU stability, and CPU GTL Refs will only help/affect your cpu. Something else is going on with your system, so try and isolate the problem. Skews are a different thing to GTL Refs, and they really depend on your board, cpu and ram size & IC type etc. You will have to just experiment and work out what works best for your system configuration. You'd be best to get some advice from people with your board concerning stabilizing 8GB ram at 500 FSB and 4.5GHz.
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  21. #621
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    Wow, lots of good info in this thread, huge thanks to Cryptik and mikeyakame. Previously I would just leave vtt and gtlref on auto on my p5q pro-e8400, course that didn't get me anywhere as the auto values seem way off even at low fsb speed .

    I notice I have no option for changing gtlref nb which is kind of a bummer. Guess I shouldn't have cheaped out on my mobo

  22. #622
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    hello to all,

    im new to GTLref & i still confuse how to differentiate between 0 , 1 , 2 , 3..

    as i know & understand 0 will same with 2

    and 1 will same with 3..

    but how can i differentiate the value?...i start to calculate using the formula from 1st page and just got 1 value ...

    example :- it will be GTLref (0) = +20, so same as GTLref (2)...

    but how can i know value for GTLref 1 and 3?...

    i look at this example

    Calculations made for a Vtt = 1.365v

    GTL Ref 0 = +50mv = 0.9336025v
    GTL Ref 1 = +10mv = 0.9381305v
    GTL Ref 2 = +50mv
    GTL Ref 3 = +10mv

    and make me real confused =.=||....arghh!!! help me...

  23. #623
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    68
    i've not understood well. For my P5Q-E :
    0/2 => 0.630
    1/3 => 0.670


    For a 45nm chip I have to set 1/3 to 6.30, and NB to 6.30 am I right ?
    Last edited by lordmagnum; 08-09-2009 at 08:22 AM.

  24. #624
    Xtreme Mentor
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    3,035
    That's your starting point. You should also try different values to see what works best for your system.
    Ci7 990X::Rampage III Extreme::12GB Corsair Dominator 1866C7GT::2 x EVGA SC Titans in SLI::Corsair AX1200::TJ07::Watercooled
    Ci7 920 3849B018::Rampage II Extreme::6GB GSKILL Trident 2000C9 BBSE::EVGA GTX580::Antec Signature SG850::TJ09::Aircooled w/TRUE 120X

  25. #625
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    68
    But : Do GTL 0/2, 1/3 and NB have to be set by the same value ?

    My VTT is now 1.20V, vNB 1.20, vcore 1.23 (LLC on), FSB 400.

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