Performance PCs

[masska]

MASSKA
Hello,
I'm writing to you to advise you of discrepancies in your shipping charges.
I noticed that my last order (#130710) I was charged US$47.90 for shipping charges, whereas when I checked the US Postage & Fees Charges Receipt it stated that the total charges for my parcel was indeed US$34.39.
Can you explain this overcharge and will you be refunding the difference?
I must say I never bother to check the actual shipping receipt charges as I trust that you charge accordingly and fairly.
I'm now wishing that I have checked all my shipping receipts and I dread to think how much I may have been overcharged with my previous orders.
I would appreciate that you follow this matter through and also confirm and check that I was not over charged for my previous orders.

You may also be interested in knowing that a number of members on our forums have had the same issue with "over charging for shipping" and I truly hope that you address this matter and give it your full attention.

Thank you

PPC's

Subject: Re: Message from Performance-PCs.com

I will look into this. Sometimes the USPS gives us discounts based on the volume of packages we send per week; so it is not always possible to have exact amount for a customer.

Also being an International customer there are customs documents that have to be filled out.

Many times we set weight so that we have a fair shipping charge which includes packing materials, boxes, etc. We will make every attempt to NOT overcharge on shipping.


Best Regards,
name withheld by masska, Performance-PCs.com


MASSKA

Thank you for your reply name withheld by masska.

Please also note that this is occurring with domestic US deliveries as well and not just for international orders.

I hope you understand that regardless of your volume and turnover discounts you may have with USPS, the end result should mean that the customer pays the correct amount.
And if you do receive special concessions and or discounts for shipping, then this should be passed on to the customer.
The shipping charges are charged separately (by USPS) from your goods and as such should be the correct price listed to the customer.

I hope you give this matter your fullest attention and arrange for a speedy resolve.

Thank you and I look forward to your reply.


PPC's

You see the amount of shipping when you checkout and are agreeing to this charge by placing the order. If you think something is off then please email in advance for future. There are other things that are not shown in the labels like Insurance, pack materials and handling.
Thank you
Best Regards,
Customer Service, Performance-PCs.com

MASSKA

I assume by your last email that is your final response to this matter.

Yes I'm agreeing to the charges as I assume the charges are correct. And please do not tell me that "there are other things that are not shown in the labels like Insurance,pack materials and handling". There was no insurance with my last order, so that would mean I paid you an extra of US$13.51 to pack 9 BitsPower fittings,20 thumbscrews and 1 Bitspower Res, all in a carton less than 20cm W by 10cm H.
I also run a distribution company and all the relative charges (as you say) are automatically built in to the products profit margin and then my customer is charged a separate fee for shipping.
The shipping fee is what I pay for, then I pass this on to my customers and I do not add anything on top of this!

To be honest I was expecting a little more courtesy from you. I have spent more than US$4200.00 in less than a year with PPC's, and if this is the way you resolve your customer complaints and issues then you have lost me as a customer.

And please do not send me any more emails with counter arguments and or justifications regarding my claim.
I have addressed my concerns and claims with you and unless you agree to refund and or supply store credit for this and all my previous orders, then there is really no need to pursue this matter
further.

PPC's

We don't build our shipping charges into the products margin. Maybe that is how you do it but we have very low margins on the majority of these products. So you should not expect every company to do things the way you do things. As you know there are many products like Koolance, Coolermaster, Antec, etc. that have 5% margins on many of their products and so the only way we can match competitor prices is to add a bit to the weight of the product to make anything near a lousy 10% margin. This is nothing new in the e-tailing world as many companies have to do this to turn a profit. Also we are on the opposite coast as where all the product comes into port in the US and so we are fighting against Newegg, Zipzoomfly, who have no shipping costs to obtain their product.

We are sorry if if you are not ordering again because of this but, your demands are not reasonable. As stated in the last email you knew the fees up front and proceeded to make the orders and we have sent you all your products swiftly and properly.
Best Regards,
Customer Service, Performance-PCs.com

MASSKA

Please sign your emails, it would be nice if I knew who I'm communicating with.

I understand your points as you've explained bellow and I also understand that you have very low margins in which to run a profitable business.

May I suggest though, that you be a little more transparent in the way you charge for your shipping and the additional costs that you add, and that this is clearly explained to your customers.
As a customer I wouldn't mind paying a little extra, as long as I was informed as to the reason and the breakdown of the additional charges.

Surely you understand my point and I hope you make the necessary changes, and if not that is up to your management to decide.
I'm also disappointed that you feel my "demands" (which by the way was not a demand as you so put it, rather a request), are unreasonable.
However I assume you are in a position of authority to respond to these emails and have acted within your position guidelines and as such your responses to me are official and representative of PPC's.


Thank you

[MomijiTMO]

Well they seem ok but the shipping costs are whacked. Again, this might not be one of the better staff and I've had less than ideal experiences with MSY so I don't think less of PPCs. However, I think you should be refunded as numerous people, including Australians, have done this before. To say no is just. . . . not nice.

It sucks because no one else has a similar amount of stock. Ahh well, GamMod and PCCG are having a nice price war atm to help us.

[masska]

Well they seem ok but the shipping costs are whacked. Again, this might not be one of the better staff and I've had less than ideal experiences with MSY so I don't think less of PPCs. However, I think you should be refunded as numerous people, including Australians, have done this before. To say no is just. . . . not nice.

It sucks because no one else has a similar amount of stock. Ahh well, GamMod and PCCG are having a nice price war atm to help us.

Their shipping charges are WHACKED for sure! I would like to know though what their management response is to all of this. Surely its a valid problem, and if I were responsible I would address it immediately and take action to resolve it and make my customers happy.
Its just not good enough and PPC's (management) should take note.

[3Z3VH]

So, why do they need to build their margin into the shipping costs ? Sidewinder has cheaper prices on all the same products, and their shipping is accurate.

[No1451]

Who knows, I've checked myself with USPS for the prices based on weight, speed and the distance to my doorstep and the USPS quote is always ~$15 or more LESS than what PPCs has charged me, and that was with tracking and insurance which I have checked: I do not get when I order.

Shipping has always been my biggest argument for shopping at Sidewinders, hopefully if enough of us start switching to Sidewinders he can get a bit more diverse stock.

[shazza]

I've just accepted the shipping charges from PPC as a cost of ordering from them. I don't know if it's still on their site, but I believe they (and many other stores) have (or used to have) a disclaimer that shipping charges will not necessarily match what is quoted direct from UPS, USPS, FedEx, etc.

It seems the choices are to a) not order from them or b) check shipping costs and question them before confirming the order if it looks high.

Just for kicks, I checked some orders to see what I might have been "overcharged:"


Order #.. Wght.. PPC Price.... Alternative

1......... 0.3...... 6.95...... 4.95 USPS Priority

2......... 5.9...... 14.01...... 16.74 UPS Ground

3......... 5.9...... 21.60...... 13.95 USPS Priority

4......... 0.25...... 6.95...... 4.95 USPS Priority

5......... 4.6...... 19.50...... 13.95 USPS Priority

6......... 5.6...... 38.69...... 41.26 UPS 2nd Day Air


So, it seems I routinely pay $2 more for USPS Priority Mail on the smaller items. Got hosed a bit on the larger USPS Priority Packages, and UPS comes out close or less. (I have also had PPCs contact me to suggest shipping by a cheaper route instead of the one I've chosen) Note - while I'm not saying the weights quoted by PPC are exact, they are reasonable for the items in those orders. Key point is, in the ones I posted here, and many others I looked at, it was not a routine $15 over charge. This is just my experience. I'm okay with the higher shipping charges, because it's very hard to beat the inventory they have when it comes to finding certain items. I support buying from the store that gives you the best price - including shipping, and am not trying to justify PPC's shipping prices. In my case, I could have saved far more on shipping (from any of the vendors we use), if I stopped ordering bits and bobs and was more organized in my buying.

[defect9]

one thing I can say, and it's not much, is I understand that some vendors do add a touch to shipping to make profits. I'm not saying I agree with the tactic, personally I'd prefer that shopping carts be built dynamically with shipping built in to the price of the item as you click. But years of dealing with ebay means I tend to look at the shipping price first, not the item price. Nobody on ebay is going to refund me shipping costs. Its not right, but in many ways it's up to the consumer to be attentive and ask if their shipping is acceptable. If you click order after they show you the price, that's on you.

now, with some places, like Mouser.com, the fact that they don't give you a shipping price up front kinda sucks, but on the same hand, they calculate it right as they ship the item, so it's friggin accurate.

[xaxis]

I know I'm budding in here a bit but from the last 8 or so posts I've read I get a small gist of what the conversation is about. Now I'm not posting to smear PPC, I've shopped from them more than once to be certain and haven't looked into the shipping in detail, so I don't know one way or another and therefore make no judgment. But that's not what my post is about.

The following is my method to 100% customer satisfaction:
Sidewinder Computers.

Sidewinders is full to the brim with integrity, honesty, and is exemplary in every merit of customer service and satisfaction. For instance (and I'm sorry if he'd rather I'd not said anything but I can't help it), the proprietor of Sidewinders Computers was hospitalized due to food poisoning yesterday. Today, around 4 in the AM I received my first e-mail from him, apologizing to me for the small delay because he couldn't ship while he was in the hospital! Fast forward 12 hours (about 20 minutes ago), I receive a second e-mail explaining how I was being given discount prices on items just because there price dropped a few days after I ordered them along with more apologies (oh and also my shipping info).

This is a guy who has been working all day, feeling nauseous at best, filling his customers' orders while responding with all the humility in the world to e-mails from any number of customers. Knowing this + the many, many, other times "Above and beyond.." surpasses itself in meaning once again, makes me a loyal, unwavering, Sidewinders Computers Customer.

[MomijiTMO]

Well Sidewinders doesn't have a A track record either as some people have complained on this rate your vendor site [I don't remember who posted that]. Basically FrozenCPU and PTS were on a A, Sidewinders was on a B and PPC was on a C-/D. I don't remember JabTech's score but the point of posting this is that some people must have had issues with Sidewinders and that FrozenCPU seems like a good alternative if you do not like PPC. Still, Frozen's shipping costs are equal if not more extravagant than PPC's shipping calculator.


We cannot win lol.

[YMAA]

No retailer is perfect. Every shop makes mistakes once in a while.

[Darth_Penguin]

Well Sidewinders doesn't have a A track record either as some people have complained on this rate your vendor site [I don't remember who posted that]. Basically FrozenCPU and PTS were on a A, Sidewinders was on a B and PPC was on a C-/D. I don't remember JabTech's score but the point of posting this is that some people must have had issues with Sidewinders and that FrozenCPU seems like a good alternative if you do not like PPC. Still, Frozen's shipping costs are equal if not more extravagant than PPC's shipping calculator.


We cannot win lol.

Of course no company is perfect, that's not the point. The point is however how well the company reacts once problem occurs. With that said, I can promise you that you would never hear the things you hear about PPC's come from Garys mouth.

Whats most frustrating about the PPC's issue for me is I would rather take my business somewhere else but they seem to be the only guys around that carry almost everything. I will undoubtedly be ordering from PPC's again, not because I want to but rather I have to.

In the end they win.

[No1451]

Of course no company is perfect, that's not the point. The point is however how well the company reacts once problem occurs. With that said, I can promise you that you would never hear the things you hear about PPC's come from Garys mouth.

Whats most frustrating about the PPC's issue for me is I would rather take my business somewhere else but they seem to be the only guys around that carry almost everything. I will undoubtedly be ordering from PPC's again, not because I want to but rather I have to.

In the end they win.

Bingo, they have a incredibly large and varied selection of items, go to them any time I have trouble finding a given item. When I can though I like Gary, so far I haven't even had to contact him with an issue

[hokiealumnus]

FWIW, I just ordered from PPCs and it was $12.53 UPS ground for 8.7lbs. There was some comment on their site in the terms about the weight not being the actual rate, but some sort of calculated...blah, blah. For all the stuff I ordered, I didn't think 8.7lbs was too bad.

In any event, if he has it, Gary with Sidewinders always gets my business. His service is second to none. To wit, my most recent experience with his superb service (posted elsewhere, but applicable to the conversation):

On the GPU front, Gary with Sidewinder Computers has outdone himself again. You see, when I was ordering the MCW-60, I called to ensure it would fit the 8800GTX as shipped. He wasn't 100% positive, so he didn't guess; no....he gave me the phone number for his supplier at Swiftech! That's brownie point #1.

Cut to yesterday. I email him the issue about it not fitting as the Swiftech person said it would. One day after being notified, he forwards me the entire correspondence between him and two people at Swiftech concluding that the G80 adapter kit is in the post to me.

[jpm804]

I know I'm budding in here a bit but from the last 8 or so posts I've read I get a small gist of what the conversation is about. Now I'm not posting to smear PPC, I've shopped from them more than once to be certain and haven't looked into the shipping in detail, so I don't know one way or another and therefore make no judgment. But that's not what my post is about.

The following is my method to 100% customer satisfaction:
Sidewinder Computers.

Sidewinders is full to the brim with integrity, honesty, and is exemplary in every merit of customer service and satisfaction. For instance (and I'm sorry if he'd rather I'd not said anything but I can't help it), the proprietor of Sidewinders Computers was hospitalized due to food poisoning yesterday. Today, around 4 in the AM I received my first e-mail from him, apologizing to me for the small delay because he couldn't ship while he was in the hospital! Fast forward 12 hours (about 20 minutes ago), I receive a second e-mail explaining how I was being given discount prices on items just because there price dropped a few days after I ordered them along with more apologies (oh and also my shipping info).

This is a guy who has been working all day, feeling nauseous at best, filling his customers' orders while responding with all the humility in the world to e-mails from any number of customers. Knowing this + the many, many, other times "Above and beyond.." surpasses itself in meaning once again, makes me a loyal, unwavering, Sidewinders Computers Customer.

Received a similar email from Gary also today after I just shot him a quick email asking him when he was shipping out the EK Classified block i ordered.
Apologized that he wasnt able to ship out due to being sick .... and took care of me as a customer.

Never had any issues with Sidewinders and when I did, gary fixed it immediately.. I always try to buy most of my stuff from him when I can since he usually has the best prices, quickest turnaround time and fair shipping charges.

Never had any issues with any of my PPC's orders ..<knock on wood> PPC's while it seems like is getting knocked on its shipping practices... like some people are saying, they do have a wide selection when it comes to items and while their shipping is not the chepest their prices for items probably fall in betwen sidewinders and frozencpus ...their prices just seem to be just so much more than any other company.

[dsumanik]

I am switching Vendors from PPC's, i have a small store credit left with the company after that is used.... never again.

I live up in canada and have spent several thousand with this company on my latest build, they have charged excessive shipping on every order I placed, The response by him saying they are charging for international shipping costs is BS, i had to pay duties and GST on top of thier shipping prices. The hose I ordered is filthy, literally gease and grime all over it, and warehouse dust and filth.

The tubing really pissed me off.

I also had to RMA 3 waterblocks due to the PCB changes and they wouldn't give a refund only a store credit and I had to pay return shipping.

The bases on both Heatkiller CPU blocks I ordered were tarnished, and one had a nasty scratch, I ordered a couple sleeved cables bits and pieces, and they were not done correctly and the pins already fell out of two of them, and the latches fell off of one of the others.

Also, they chinced me out on some of the barbs I ordered as well, in the end the cost of returning or RMA'ing things will be greater than just ordering new parts to replace....Vote with yoru wallet folks, these guys are overcharging on thier so called "slim margins" to begin with and then shipping on top of it to boot.

It is not our responsibility as consumers to make up for a poorly managed business, newegg gets thing shipped to canada quickly cheaply, with duties and fees included at far cheaper prices.

The only thing PPC's has is a great inventory, but after all the money I have spent with them...i realize now I could have purchsed from multiple vendors and shipping costs would have been the same as it was paying for their overcharged shipping...seriously its like ebay shipping with them, a joke.

[MomijiTMO]

If you ordered old school non Pro LRT Primochill tubing you get something that looks and feels like a thick condom. The tarnish thing isn't their fault either, HK must have packaging.

[Movieman]

Although I agree that there seems to be issues with PPC's shipping I also want to toss in that where you live is part of the costs.
I'm in NH and PPC's is in Florida.
2 days to me by USPS priority mail and what I've been charged is right with what the costs should be.
You also have to remember that shipping isn't just a postal charge. Those little bubble mailers cost $1.00 each, cardboard boxes cost like you wouldn't beleive.
You can easily pay $5.00 for a cardboard box and all of this has to be included in the shipping costs.
Then add bubble wrap. Have you priced it recently?
Sealing tape is $3.00 a roll and it isn't that big a roll.
Amazing how it can all add up.

[dengyong]

I am switching Vendors from PPC's, i have a small store credit left with the company after that is used.... never again.

I live up in canada and have spent several thousand with this company on my latest build, they have charged excessive shipping on every order I placed, The response by him saying they are charging for international shipping costs is BS, i had to pay duties and GST on top of thier shipping prices. The hose I ordered is filthy, literally gease and grime all over it, and warehouse dust and filth.

The tubing really pissed me off.

I also had to RMA 3 waterblocks due to the PCB changes and they wouldn't give a refund only a store credit and I had to pay return shipping.

The bases on both Heatkiller CPU blocks I ordered were tarnished, and one had a nasty scratch, I ordered a couple sleeved cables bits and pieces, and they were not done correctly and the pins already fell out of two of them, and the latches fell off of one of the others.

Also, they chinced me out on some of the barbs I ordered as well, in the end the cost of returning or RMA'ing things will be greater than just ordering new parts to replace....Vote with yoru wallet folks, these guys are overcharging on thier so called "slim margins" to begin with and then shipping on top of it to boot.

It is not our responsibility as consumers to make up for a poorly managed business, newegg gets thing shipped to canada quickly cheaply, with duties and fees included at far cheaper prices.

The only thing PPC's has is a great inventory, but after all the money I have spent with them...i realize now I could have purchsed from multiple vendors and shipping costs would have been the same as it was paying for their overcharged shipping...seriously its like ebay shipping with them, a joke.

They sent me some of that greasy/tacky/dirty tubing about two years ago.
Looked like something had been sprayed on it that dissolved the outside of the tubing.
Anyone who picked it up to put it in the box would have known the tubing was no good.... I threw it in the trash like ppc's should have.
If Hank can live with it, I can live without it.

[Sadasius]

I like PPC's and for a variety of good reasons:

1) The have the best damn stock in the industry that I would gladly pay an extra couple dollars to a business that took the initiative to stock so much hardware and for having such an awesome selection.

2) They have always done things right with me. Hell they even marked my items as a 'gift' so I did not have to pay duty charges. Seriously my last 5 or 6 orders were like that. Duty can be a killer and they have thought about me when they ship my stuff out. So yeah I don't mind paying an extra few dollars on shipping when they saved me sooooo much more on duty.

3) Other then with the time of them moving their shipping pretty much makes it out the same day or the next day.

4) Every time I had a problem I talked to them as people and never had a problem because I did that. I don't tell them how they should be. I don't tell them how to run their business. I don't threaten them saying do this or I will shop somewhere else. So in return I was always treated right because I treated them right. The customer is always right thing is BS. There are some people out there that are very difficult to deal with and will try to get as much as they can for as long as they can with this mentality.

All in all I have read many things in this thread and some may be valid in some ways but others are downright retarded to me. If they did not exist and you had to scrounge all over the internet to find your parts wouldn't you be saying..."You know, if someone opened a store that stocked all the parts most don't sell plus the parts they do sell I would not mind helping pitch a few extra dollars here and there to help stock so much stuff."

It's like a hot blond who has a killer body compared to a ugly duckling who has to be nice to get attention. PPC's has the overkill stock we need just like the hot body of the blond who has everything we want. Other places hardly have stock and thus need to get your business by being nice and as courteous as possible so that you keep checking back when they do have some stock. Understand?!?

[MomijiTMO]

Nope disagree with the last part. If you actually read the thread or at least the previous page you would have seen that someone did not get the gift treatment and their 2k order became extra expensive. There is no obligation for PPC to do this but you passed it off as the standard.

[Eddie3dfx]

Gary was in the hospital? Sorry to hear that. Hopefully he is doing better

[MomijiTMO]

Yeah his kids also were quite sick =\

[masska]

Although I agree that there seems to be issues with PPC's shipping I also want to toss in that where you live is part of the costs.
I'm in NH and PPC's is in Florida.
2 days to me by USPS priority mail and what I've been charged is right with what the costs should be.
You also have to remember that shipping isn't just a postal charge. Those little bubble mailers cost $1.00 each, cardboard boxes cost like you wouldn't beleive.
You can easily pay $5.00 for a cardboard box and all of this has to be included in the shipping costs.
Then add bubble wrap. Have you priced it recently?
Sealing tape is $3.00 a roll and it isn't that big a roll.
Amazing how it can all add up.

Sorry Movieman, no disrespect intended however your figures on packing material seem a little high!
I did run a small distribution business and remember that my turnover was no where near as much as PPC's. I used corn/potato starch filling and the price was aprox AU$37.00 for 200lt bag (this would pack about 40-50 consignments). Cardboard boxes were ordered in bulk and aprox cost was AU$1.55 (H45cmm x W30cm x L60cm). Sealing tape, bought in bulk at AU$1.70 .Surely PPC's would have access to better pricing than me!
I can accept a small and fair surcharge for shipping to cover for materials and labor, however its clearly evident that their shipping charges are not in line with proper margins. Their responses to this and lack of understanding has left me very disappointed. At least show your customers some courtesy... I know I would

ps: Gary and family, get better soon...

[MomijiTMO]

All my pc purchases have come in boxes that were not purchased by the respected stores. Ie I've gotten a few EVGA stamped boxes, Panaflo etc. So you really can't say they spend money on boxes unless they run out.

[masska]

All my pc purchases have come in boxes that were not purchased by the respected stores. Ie I've gotten a few EVGA stamped boxes, Panaflo etc. So you really can't say they spend money on boxes unless they run out.

same here. all but one of my orders from PPC's have come in aftermarket boxes.