Onepagebook Lifetime Ban at HWbot

[BenchZowner]

Disgusting.
That's all I have to say.

One more reason why I'm not into this anymore.

[billdavis]

now what will he do with all of his time.

or what his new user name be

[XS_Rich]

now what will he do with all of his time.

or what his new user name be

twopagebook

[SKYMTL]

First of all, I think it is good to get this out in the open so kudos to those involved. Just like with any sport, there will always be those who are willing to do anything to win. The olympics have doping and overclocking has Photoshop and tweaks that may or may not be "legal".

I think the main problem here is that there is very little organization behind the scenes which fits in perfectly with the fact that there are overclockers from around the world competing at any time of the day in a number of official benchmarks. Sure, there are the odd formal competitions here and there but in the end the legality of submitted scores will be judged by one's peers. That in itself causes a problem as these "judges" are the same people you are competing against and finding someone who can stay on neutral territory is very, very hard. It's like a US gymnast's routine being judged by the teams of other countries but that's the nature of the beast with anything community-driven.

We have all seen it again and again: people tap dancing around the subject of a tweak, final score or hardware for fear of reprisals from both the community and others. Because of this I am SURE that some people have got away with almost the same thing as OPB in the past and it will continue into the future as well. Overclocking is a sport governed by some serious politics and as with all political movements, there are some cases that are too sensitive to bring up in front of the public.

Personally, I think this thread should have been posted as a sticky and closed right away. Keep it up for a few days and then remove it since OPB is already banned and there really isn't a point in opening more wounds with a discussion about the who's, why's and how come's this situation came to pass.

[dduckquack]

we all should learn that healthy competition is good competition just take a look at 3d01 race! we like to see good scores, but we like to see it taken down too

[Movieman]

Disgusting.
That's all I have to say.

One more reason why I'm not into this anymore.

Don't feel that way my friend.
Because one person chose the wrong path doesn't mean that all do.
This is just a small slice of real life and there's good and bad everywhere.
Don't let it effect your love of the hobby.

[zlojack]

"I cheated and I'm sorry" is ok the first time.

The second time cheating is just plain urinating on those who participate clean (if these people even exist).

This isn't about a "fun hobby". There are sponsorships, money and personal reputations on the line with this stuff.

[Duh]

Do they also ban IP address so he can't create another name ?

most likely he doesnt either:
-have neighbours to where he can connect via wifi
-have a lappie and use it in a coffee that offers wifi
-pay for a 5 bucks vpn or use a proxy..

of course he is able to do it!!!

[[XC] riptide]

F'him. I've been saying that for a while now. About time HWbot got this done.

[soundood]

onepagebook, banned, who?

[Movieman]

F'him. I've been saying that for a while now. About time HWbot got this done.

Let's be nice and as to HWBot, they handled this very quickly..

[ahmad]

First of all, I think it is good to get this out in the open so kudos to those involved. Just like with any sport, there will always be those who are willing to do anything to w...

I'd guess 95% of overclockers do it for fun. They wake up in the morning, they go to work, they get 'er done, and they go home. There is no overclocking here. Except on some occasions.

As for the other 5%, well they live, smell, and breath overclocking. For those, this would matter.

It's fun to be competitive, but then you only have so much money...

[trans am]

He's lucky he didn't get beat up. Imagine beating somebody up for cheating while overclocking. lol.
I love reading how heated some of you are getting over this. Its the most entertaining thread ive read in while. Keep it up!

[JamesBong420]

"The second time cheating is just plain urinating on those who participate clean (if these people even exist).

This isn't about a "fun hobby". There are sponsorships, money and personal reputations on the line with this stuff.

wow!!! i am glad it IS about the fun to most of us...

[George_o/c]

Fair enough, 1) but at what point does benching switch from hardware tweaking/cooling prowess to driver optimization/software tweaks in order to gain the upper hand.

I guess it depends on what you see as the goal..if the highest score on a given bench is all you are after...then really, the compeition is all about cheating that benchmark, or at least bending the rules and software your system is running on in order to gain a few more points.

so in the end, why not just photoshop? Bending the rules, is bending the rules. 2) Hacking the driver, trimming the fat off your system, modifying the OS, running the bench under multiple frequency profiles to allow it to make it through certain parts...in the end...Ask yourself whats more impressive...someone who cracks 6ghz stable or someone at 5.7 suicide scoring higher in 3dmark due to optimizations?

3) A solid hardware overclock is the most impressive, at least for me.

Proof the rig is up and stable at a given speed is what i see as the goal, but I understand others such as OPB and other pro benchers are more interested in the other side of things...and im sure to compete in this arena requires just as much skill, or perhaps combining them is even harder.

4) but for me, when I am stability testing.... the ethernet drivers better be working, and the sound drivers, and the video drivers and everything else the system needs to be up and running and fully functional...otherwise is it really actually stable?

5) Whats the use of a really, REALLY, REALLY fast computer you can't even check your email on?

And that is the question. Stable is different things to different people so there is no one catch all for everyone.
For me its my machines at 100% load 24/7 on WCG.
For another guy it's SP32m stable, or prime 85 stable for X hours..
Stable is what you want it to be for your uses.

Wise words there Movieman However, I just couldn't resist, and felt that I really need to answer to dsumanik regarding his statements ...

1) Dude, are you seriously putting software tweaking regarding benchmarking in question ? It has been done for live forever. I just can't distinctly remember when was the first time I read about tweaking in a Team Japan's thread, it was for sure though long time ago.

2) Someone at 5.7GHz suicide scoring a lot more in 3DMark is more impressive, at least for me. Actually from my point of view, that's the most fun benchmarking aspect I've spotted the last few years - there's nothing more fun for me in benchmarking, than tweaking, literally talking here. Chopping off your OS, hysterically testing more and more CW File Sizes or ways of doing CW, finding how to delete all svchost.exe's without the system rebooting in "1 minute" ( ), experimenting with CW/CDT/CDT-IV, going through registry deleting various keys/editing even more of them and competing in Low Clock Challenges works for me. I'm not going to even talk about 3DMark2001 SE, and how inspiring -from a software tweaking point of view- that benchmark is.

3) For you maybe This is Xtremesystems though

4) Damn' I never thought of it like that. Next time when I'll play with some LN2 with the rest of the guys from Athens, I'll make sure to turn on Ethernet ports and onboard Lan features while benchmarking SuperPi 32M ... Maybe I'll get some incredible gains, stabillity-wise

5) Damn' again. I wanted to put that in my sig, but I came in 5th, or 6th (I firmly believe that I wasn't the only one who was looking forward to something like that in his signature ).

These are the formulas

Actually these 3DMark calculation formulas derive from K404. It's a pity that he decided to step back from overclocking/benchmarking now that he is getting married , he is such an outstanding and passionate benchmarker

Disgusting.
That's all I have to say.

One more reason why I'm not into this anymore.

Bill where are you my friend ? I haven't been able to contact you since early May. Are you really going to quit overclocking/benchmarking, that's why you've been so remote lately ?

[zlojack]

wow!!! i am glad it IS about the fun to most of us...

For most of us it is, but at that level you're getting into money and sponsorships and such. It turns from a hobby into a money competition pretty quickly.

I'm not even that into benching, though it's fun to watch scores and records go up there, but I find it strange that people are so quick to forgive someone who cheats. I guess he must be a really nice guy

[dsumanik]

Wise words there Movieman However, I just couldn't resist, and felt that I really need to answer to dsumanik regarding his statements ...

LOL, im glad my post struck a nerve....it means my words rung home with some truth.....i wish i had some LN2 to pour on my epeen like you and the boys in athens, but i guess I don't so ill just enable my ethernet drivers and upload a photoshopped screenie like everyone else...

(by the way this isn't an insult its a joke...but you seem like the type to flip a lid so i thought id add a disclaimer for you before a tantrum ensues )

Oh yeah, as for your tweaking is more impressive argument...you can still tweak in the exact same fashion, on the higher clocked hardware. Its getting the clock that is harder. And guess what if you manage to get it stable...well you can even be a super pi loser and turn on your ethernet drivers allowing you to flip someone like me the bird all the way from athens!!

...peace out homeslice!

[George_o/c]

I'm really enjoying this, no hard feelings matey. Just wanted to point out that there are some people who tweak the hell out of their systems when benchmarking in order to get the maximum performance in specific system clocks Nothing illegal in that, thus the comparison with photoshop is not valid. Tweaking is acceptable by the overclocking community and when it's right it can lead to some outstanding results. Photoshopping can lead to some outstanding results as well, but a) it's not fun/fair, b) it's gay (regarding benchmarking of course ) and c) it's totally un-acceptable by overclocking community (and that's the way it should be).


George

[Formann]

I want a 7 day cruise to Norway!

No, you dont

[Movieman]

LOL, im glad my post struck a nerve....it means my words rung home with some truth.....i wish i had some LN2 to pour on my epeen like you and the boys in athens, but i guess I don't so ill just enable my ethernet drivers and upload a photoshopped screenie like everyone else...

(by the way this isn't an insult its a joke...but you seem like the type to flip a lid so i thought id add a disclaimer for you before a tantrum ensues )

Oh yeah, as for your tweaking is more impressive argument...you can still tweak in the exact same fashion, on the higher clocked hardware. Its getting the clock that is harder. And guess what if you manage to get it stable...well you can even be a super pi loser and turn on your ethernet drivers allowing you to flip someone like me the bird all the way from athens!!

...peace out homeslice!

I'm really enjoying this, no hard feelings matey. Just wanted to point out that there are some people who tweak the hell out of their systems when benchmarking in order to get the maximum performance in specific system clocks Nothing illegal in that, thus the comparison with photoshop is not valid. Tweaking is acceptable by the overclocking community and when it's right it can lead to some outstanding results. Photoshopping can lead to some outstanding results as well, but a) it's not fun/fair, b) it's gay (regarding benchmarking of course ) and c) it's totally un-acceptable by overclocking community (and that's the way it should be).


George

I'm going to jump in here with a couple comments.
1) Even though I don't "bench" once in a while I'll try something like 3DMark06 with my machines which I think are top machines and dead solid and then I see just how good some of these guys are as my scores look pitiful compared to theirs but I mentally put everything in it's proper place and have a good chuckle.
No anger, no jealousy, we just build to different purposes.
2) I think in this thread I might listen a bit more to what George O/C has to say because in this subject if he's who I think he is, he's a fairly knowledgable person.

not bashing you dsumanik, just saying take a breath and a little less of the sarcasm ok?
Thanks to both for reading..

[G.Foyle]

Did you notice how most image-altering tweaks are not legit? That's partly because all the tweaks: nlited OS, OS choice, even LOD can be used in real world scenarios, not only for benching. I know people who play online games competitively and they need LOD tweaks to keep playable framerates. Most of the tweaks are not something you would use only for benching.

[dsumanik]

Yeah no worries movie...george and I both know when push comes to shove I really have no foot to stand on I because don't have the skills or knowledge to do what these guys do, and alot of innovation in our little world trickles downs from the efforts from the hardcores pushing things to the edge...which we are all thankful for.

I am just poking fun that some of the most impressive, hardest working, talented guys/gals on the planet..running extremely expensive custom setups well above speeds that us mere mortals can ever achieve....cant seem to check thier email.

No hard feelings george, or anyone else out there... I was just trying to provide some comic relief.

On another note, seriously though if it is becoming this hardcore of a "sport" someone needs to set up some sort of regulations or secure method for verification...if someone photoshopped thier way to third place I guarantee its just the tip of the iceberg.

[ahmad]

[Boogerlad]

Fair enough, but at what point does benching switch from hardware tweaking/cooling prowess to driver optimization/software tweaks in order to gain the upper hand.

I guess it depends on what you see as the goal..if the highest score on a given bench is all you are after...then really, the compeition is all about cheating that benchmark, or at least bending the rules and software your system is running on in order to gain a few more points.

so in the end, why not just photoshop? Bending the rules, is bending the rules. Hacking the driver, trimming the fat off your system, modifying the OS, running the bench under multiple frequency profiles to allow it to make it through certain parts...in the end...Ask yourself whats more impressive...someone who cracks 6ghz stable or someone at 5.7 suicide scoring higher in 3dmark due to optimizations?

A solid hardware overclock is the most impressive, at least for me.

Proof the rig is up and stable at a given speed is what i see as the goal, but I understand others such as OPB and other pro benchers are more interested in the other side of things...and im sure to compete in this arena requires just as much skill, or perhaps combining them is even harder.

but for me, when I am stability testing.... the ethernet drivers better be working, and the sound drivers, and the video drivers and everything else the system needs to be up and running and fully functional...otherwise is it really actually stable?

Whats the use of a really, REALLY, REALLY fast computer you can't even check your email on?

What's wrong with os optimization?

[BrokenWall]

What if the executable was randomized somehow and only valid for 6 hours or something, you gotta pass the test in a given time frame or you are pooched.

option B

Use VNC to allow a "referee" to administer the test on a user's system. the user tweaks the setup, requests verification, remote administrator executes.

Pretty easy to dial in on VNC, and download linx / CPU-Z and super Pi

If people are really that hardcore and want to prove validation...remote access for a few mins is no big deal. You could even have opposing teams administering the tests to thier competitors, ensuring no monkey business and encouraging the competition. Anyone hardcore tweaking won't be storing vital data on the test rig, and as far as security is concerned..just unplug your lan cable or kill the VNC client..no one gonna get hacked from this. How fun would it be to try and prove your worst enemy is full of BS.

Sign me up lol.

Trust me, run a VNC server on your bench machine and then watch it remotely. I promise you it will nail your score, because your CPU is busy compressing and sending that screen data to an remote guest. if you do it over the internet its even worse. plus VNC does not do video at all. play a stupid flash game remotely with VNC and you might as well have someone email you screenshots every 30 seconds.