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Thread: If you do not crunch please read. Please.

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Particle View Post
    I like folding and stuff, but I always have to wonder:

    - Am I actually doing anything with the effort? They never seem to talk much about anything that comes out of this project. I'm not saying there isn't anything--just that without feedback I don't feel like I'm doing anything helpful. I don't want to be anyone's fool, you know?

    - Where is processor time best spent? WCG is CPU-only. Does it do more medical good to crunch with CPU or GPU on another project? I don't want to waste potential by doing the wrong thing. I suppose that ultimately, the only wrong choice is to waste the cycles (provided it actually helps).
    I can totally understand that question.
    Now I'm pretty comitted to this project but if I found out that I'd been scammed for the last 3 years I'd thow a nutty like you wouldn't beleive.
    I have seen some updates but here's my take on it and I will give credit to riptide for wording it so well;
    (paraphrasing from memory so rip don't blast me!..
    What is happening is like a home being built.
    What you see are the people excavating the foundation and like driving by a new home every day it seems to take forever to get built.
    They are doing the same with these projects, laying in the foundation of knowledge they will need to crack these diseases. Mountains of data needed to accomplish this.
    Immense man hours to just set up these WU and then the time to sift thru them and this is just the foundation.
    This may take the next 3-5 years to accumulate what is needed for that vast database to find the causes and then the combinations that will cure them.
    I see it as a scale that moves very slowly at first, then gathers momentum as the database is grown and shaped.
    In my heart I see a day, maybe 2 or 10 years off when some researcher in a lab sits up, smiles and says "We got it!"
    Our work now will make that day come sooner.
    We here have some of the best privately owned machines on the planet and combined are more than any supercomputer in existance.
    With each generation of PC advance that mountain of data gets eaten at faster and faster.
    Some of you have heard me pissing and moaning that I can't OC the gainestown rig. It isn't for ego or for that 5 minutes of glory showing huge benchmarks, it's for the additional amount of work I see it able to do that it can't when locked up as it is.
    Computational power is the answer to the problem and the more we can throw at it the sooner this will be accomplished.
    Thanks for reading..
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  2. #52
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    That's some good reading, and it's the kind of thing I was really yearning for. It makes me want to crunch more.
    Particle's First Rule of Online Technical Discussion:
    As a thread about any computer related subject has its length approach infinity, the likelihood and inevitability of a poorly constructed AMD vs. Intel fight also exponentially increases.

    Rule 1A:
    Likewise, the frequency of a car pseudoanalogy to explain a technical concept increases with thread length. This will make many people chuckle, as computer people are rarely knowledgeable about vehicular mechanics.

    Rule 2:
    When confronted with a post that is contrary to what a poster likes, believes, or most often wants to be correct, the poster will pick out only minor details that are largely irrelevant in an attempt to shut out the conflicting idea. The core of the post will be left alone since it isn't easy to contradict what the person is actually saying.

    Rule 2A:
    When a poster cannot properly refute a post they do not like (as described above), the poster will most likely invent fictitious counter-points and/or begin to attack the other's credibility in feeble ways that are dramatic but irrelevant. Do not underestimate this tactic, as in the online world this will sway many observers. Do not forget: Correctness is decided only by what is said last, the most loudly, or with greatest repetition.

    Rule 3:
    When it comes to computer news, 70% of Internet rumors are outright fabricated, 20% are inaccurate enough to simply be discarded, and about 10% are based in reality. Grains of salt--become familiar with them.

    Remember: When debating online, everyone else is ALWAYS wrong if they do not agree with you!

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  3. #53
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    Hey Huff, get yourself a 10 day cache, then you won't run out of WUs
    World Community Grid - come join a great team and help us fight for a better tomorrow![size=1]


  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcool View Post
    Hey Huff, get yourself a 10 day cache, then you won't run out of WUs
    How do I do that?? and I am back in action finally. The guy just left and the first thing I did was boot up WCG and F@h.

    So you will see a little point jump up atleast cause I had like 8 projects done and waiting lol.
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  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by mreuter80 View Post
    Dude ... check the power cable ...
    or the safety fuse
    Haha no I knew what the problem was. I used to work in all this low voltage communications stuff. Just quit my last job installing fiber optics actually so I can get done with school and get my butt to OCS for the Navy.

    All that happened was the end where you put the cable on somehow got broken off and just wasnt making a connection but they got me a new one and I am back to having my amazing 15 meg connection lol
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  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by HuffPCair View Post
    How do I do that?? and I am back in action finally. The guy just left and the first thing I did was boot up WCG and F@h.

    So you will see a little point jump up atleast cause I had like 8 projects done and waiting lol.
    In Boinc Manager: Advanced > Prefences >Network Usage > Additional Work Buffer. Mine are at 2.2 days.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Particle View Post
    - Am I actually doing anything with the effort? They never seem to talk much about anything that comes out of this project. I'm not saying there isn't anything--just that without feedback I don't feel like I'm doing anything helpful. I don't want to be anyone's fool, you know?
    Just found something interesting in regards to that (finding is probably the wrong word as it was in the newsletter, which I have to admit don't read too often).

    On the wcg website, go to About us, then news & media, then look in newsletter archive, they have research updates there for the various projects where they share some details on what they are doing and talk about progress and such, while lots of it requires some sort of medical degree to understand it is still interesting.
    Link to latest one.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by PoppaGeek View Post
    In Boinc Manager: Advanced > Prefences >Network Usage > Additional Work Buffer. Mine are at 2.2 days.
    Ok cool. Thanks
    ~ Little Slice of Heaven ~
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  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by PoppaGeek View Post
    In Boinc Manager: Advanced > Prefences >Network Usage > Additional Work Buffer. Mine are at 2.2 days.
    You can set that online too so every machine you set up automatically has that setting instead of manually setting it on each PC.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SparkyJJO View Post
    You can set that online too so every machine you set up automatically has that setting instead of manually setting it on each PC.
    I had all my farm set to 10 days of WUs (in the PC prefs) but it didnt download more than 5 days worth as that was set on the online profile.

    Also funny one was when I got a message from WCG:

    No more WUs for all your projects.
    You have reached your maximum daily quantity of 320WUs.

    At least it wont run out while I am away for the week and waiting on the internet to be connected.

    One other thing I noticed with no internet access for the farm was that I had to put network activity to suspend (under activity) on all the crunchers as it was locking up the PCs with huge amounts of WUs it was trying to upload.

  11. #61
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    Yeah i just set my computer to 2.2 days also. So Ill be good to go.
    ~ Little Slice of Heaven ~
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    ~~~~~~~~~~~~

  12. #62
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    I got a 5 to 7 day cache on all machines.. in total over 2000 WUs cached
    World Community Grid - come join a great team and help us fight for a better tomorrow![size=1]


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    I found a list or news articles from publications such as Businessweek. Fortune, NYT, CNN Money, Information Week and more covering Nutritious Rice for the World.

    Also found this dated June 11 2009:
    The Rice project is picking up speed again. We are increasing the share on the grid and members may notice the increase in runtime for this project. The space issues should be a thing of the distant past. Thank you again for your participation and patience on World Community Grid.

    -Uplinger

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    Our Mission, Our Work and You

    World Community Grid's mission is to create the world's largest public computing grid to tackle projects that benefit humanity.

    Our work has developed the technical infrastructure that serves as the grid's foundation for scientific research. Our success depends upon individuals collectively contributing their unused computer time to change the world for the better.

    World Community Grid is making technology available only to public and not-for-profit organizations to use in humanitarian research that might otherwise not be completed due to the high cost of the computer infrastructure required in the absence of a public grid. As part of our commitment to advancing human welfare, all results will be in the public domain and made public to the global research community.

    Our Sponsor

    IBM Corporation, a leader in the creation, development and manufacture of the industry's most advanced information technologies, has donated the hardware, software, technical services and expertise to build the infrastructure for World Community Grid and provides free hosting, maintenance and support.

    How Grid Technology Works

    Making a difference has never been easier! Grid technology is simple and safe to use. To start, you register, then download and install a small program or "agent" onto your computer.

    When idle, your computer will request data on a specific project from World Community Grid's server. It will then perform computations on this data, send the results back to the server, and ask the server for a new piece of work. Each computation that your computer performs provides scientists with critical information that accelerates the pace of research!

    To learn more about World Community Grid's current research, please link to our Research area.

    World Community Grid runs on software called BOINC (Berkeley Open Infrastructure for Network Computing, developed at University of California, Berkeley, USA with funding from NSF (National Science Foundation).

    Join Now. Make a Difference.

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    Nothing about WCG is fast (except your overclocked crunchers ). It takes a lot of time to compile and make sense of all the data that is run. Frankly, each Work Unit is only a minuscule amount of information (ie, one nanosecond in the folding or stable interactions of a protein). If you want this to turn into a cure however, then consider that there is an intense amount of research that must still take place after the computations. Computer modeling is great stuff, but it is just that, modeling. Its relation to the actual biology varies with the degree of precision specified in the programming model, and the initial observations used to create the model. Not only that, but you have to take into consideration how many variables you want to involve. I can model the stability of Protein X, but in doing so I specify the number of water molecules and other ions and chemicals that are present. Increasing the complexity of the system being tested may make it more accurate (in a limited context), but it also increases the computational time and power needed.

    Assuming a reasonable amount of precision and accuracy is obtained however, then you have to do the experiments to verify the biological significance. Granted, there are different projects in WCG, each with a different goal. So, the path may change a little bit. The basic idea is the same though: you have to verify function and interaction of a protein in vivo. Drug companies do similar things on a large scale; they use computation to narrow down the list of chemicals capable of achieving a specific interaction, and then they do the actual testing on the smaller list. This is what WCG does essentially-taking a set of proteins/chemicals/biological variables and seeing what happens in a model system. This establishes a series of predictions that can then be used in further research. It may yield useful data, it may not. So, do we get closer to cure X? Definitely! We've narrowed things down to a manageable size. We just have to continue working on wherever that data takes us.

    EDIT: this is mostly in response to Particle, sorry if it seems a little off-topic.

    CPU and GPU are both useful, even necessary (the GPU necessity being primarily in amount accomplished per amount of time). You can't go wrong with either...

    EDIT 2: Initial mental response to my post will be disappointment. I apologize. To better see the scope though, your essentially making a cure possible. Having an slightly-less-than-infinite (you know what I mean) list of possible chemicals or whatever to test doesn't make for a good probability of finding any cure in our lifetime. The task of narrowing down the possibilities can't be under appreciated in this context then, as it gives us the ability to conquer the complex tasks of disease research in ways that we couldn't have dreamed of only a decade ago.
    Last edited by xVeinx; 06-23-2009 at 04:06 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xVeinx View Post
    Nothing about WCG is fast (except your overclocked crunchers ). It takes a lot of time to compile and make sense of all the data that is run. Frankly, each Work Unit is only a minuscule amount of information (ie, one nanosecond in the folding or stable interactions of a protein). If you want this to turn into a cure however, then consider that there is an intense amount of research that must still take place after the computations. Computer modeling is great stuff, but it is just that, modeling. Its relation to the actual biology varies with the degree of precision specified in the programming model, and the initial observations used to create the model. Not only that, but you have to take into consideration how many variables you want to involve. I can model the stability of Protein X, but in doing so I specify the number of water molecules and other ions and chemicals that are present. Increasing the complexity of the system being tested may make it more accurate (in a limited context), but it also increases the computational time and power needed.

    Assuming a reasonable amount of precision and accuracy is obtained however, then you have to do the experiments to verify the biological significance. Granted, there are different projects in WCG, each with a different goal. So, the path may change a little bit. The basic idea is the same though: you have to verify function and interaction of a protein in vivo. Drug companies do similar things on a large scale; they use computation to narrow down the list of chemicals capable of achieving a specific interaction, and then they do the actual testing on the smaller list. This is what WCG does essentially-taking a set of proteins/chemicals/biological variables and seeing what happens in a model system. This establishes a series of predictions that can then be used in further research. It may yield useful data, it may not. So, do we get closer to cure X? Definitely! We've narrowed things down to a manageable size. We just have to continue working on wherever that data takes us.

    EDIT: this is mostly in response to Particle, sorry if it seems a little off-topic.

    CPU and GPU are both useful, even necessary (the GPU necessity being primarily in amount accomplished per amount of time). You can't go wrong with either...

    EDIT 2: Initial mental response to my post will be disappointment. I apologize. To better see the scope though, your essentially making a cure possible. Having an slightly-less-than-infinite (you know what I mean) list of possible chemicals or whatever to test doesn't make for a good probability of finding any cure in our lifetime. The task of narrowing down the possibilities can't be under appreciated in this context then, as it gives us the ability to conquer the complex tasks of disease research in ways that we couldn't have dreamed of only a decade ago.
    Reality usually is a disappointment. We live in a time of "I want it now" and instant fixes and solutions. The BIG challenges in Life ain't that simple. It takes a lot of hard work and a dedication to see it thru no matter how long it takes. The goal is worth the wait.

    Thanks for an informative and well written explanation.


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    My Milestone

    This week I hit a couple of Milestones that I am pleased with. What surprised me is how much the numbers have grown since I stated this thread almost a month ago. I passed 6 years of computer time and 10,000 work units. I am closing in on 6 million points as well.

    There are different ways of gauging success and you can set your own goals and take pride in what is important to you. There is nothing special about my hardware most of it is humble in comparison to todays faster hardware. But I am pleased I was able to make the contribution I have and hope I can do it again and again.




    Join us!

    Last edited by PoppaGeek; 07-04-2009 at 09:27 PM.

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    Excellent post Poppa. I lost my grandfather to cancer in 2004 and many other relatives before him. Cancer has hit my family hard, so when I first read about wcg last year I was so happy to be able to contribute and hopefully save some other family's the pain mine has been through. I don't have much to crunch with but I help how ever I can.

    I kind of screwed up the screenie O.o
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malcontent View Post
    Excellent post Poppa. I lost my grandfather to cancer in 2004 and many other relatives before him. Cancer has hit my family hard, so when I first read about wcg last year I was so happy to be able to contribute and hopefully save some other family's the pain mine has been through. I don't have much to crunch with but I help how ever I can.

    I kind of screwed up the screenie O.o
    Yep that's all any of us can. What is important is that we do it!

    Nice numbers there!


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    Quote Originally Posted by PoppaGeek View Post
    Yep that's all any of us can. What is important is that we do it!

    Nice numbers there!

    Thanks, thats little more than a q6600@3ghz over about a year.
    I had a few duals running for a little while but not much. Every little bit helps. Every core, every wu, every point.
    I crunch for you Gramps R.I.P.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malcontent View Post
    Thanks, thats little more than a q6600@3ghz over about a year.
    I had a few duals running for a little while but not much. Every little bit helps. Every core, every wu, every point.
    Haha, I started with just two single cores, which lasted a few years - Then I joined XS. A week later I had a quad core up.

    Man i need more...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Otis11 View Post
    Haha, I started with just two single cores, which lasted a few years - Then I joined XS. A week later I had a quad core up.

    Man i need more...
    I know the feeling. Crap economy sucks Can't seem to find a job any where Really rains on my crunching parade, I want to get a 2nd quad up so bad
    I crunch for you Gramps R.I.P.
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    I haven't been crunching for a long time I wish i found the team more early. "thank you Dave"
    My dad died from Leukemia and ill do anything to help find a cure for it.

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    IBM was awarded the prestigious Coffey International Award for its application of technical expertise in innovative ways to address the greatest societal challenges of our time at the annual Business in the Community (BITC) Awards for Excellence last night.

    We... challenge the business world at large to sign up to World Community Grid and help grow its potential to achieve even greater impact on the Millennium Development Goals (MDGs) and the world’s most pressing needs.

    Charles DuffCorporate Development Manager, Coffey International Limited and Chair of the International Award judges

    IBM earned the award for World Community Grid (WCG), in essence the virtual equivalent in processing power to a Top 10 Supercomputer devoted to humanitarian research. World Community Grid gains its power from the aggregated spare computing capacity of 1.3million PCs belonging to 460,000 volunteers from over 200 countries. For participating members, some with perhaps limited time for volunteering, it provides the opportunity through the World Community Grid to make a significant contribution to tackling the Millennium Development Goals.

    The Award was presented to Larry Hirst, Chairman IBM Europe Middle East Africa, by HRH The Prince of Wales, President of BITC, at a garden party reception hosted by The Prince at his home, Clarence House.

    Charles Duff, Corporate Development Manager, Coffey International Limited and Chair of judges said: "The scale, significance, power and potential of World Community Grid is impressive. IBM has collaborated with a wide spectrum of research partners and encouraged businesses, community groups and individuals to provide free computational capacity to support international humanitarian projects. The judges salute IBM’s programme and hope that the recognition conferred by this award will encourage individuals everywhere to join with IBM so that more research can be completed even faster as part of this exciting, inspiring and innovative development initiative. We also challenge the business world at large to sign up to World Community Grid and help grow its potential to achieve even greater impact on the Millennium Development Goals (MDGs) and the world’s most pressing needs.“

    World Community Grid is a powerful example of IBM’s recently announced smarter planet vision in which systems from utility grids to healthcare can be made to work better, as a result of increased data, interconnected networks and greater embedded intelligence.

    According to Larry Hirst of IBM, "A lot of important scientific research isn't happening. It lacks the funding for the supercomputing capacity that is needed to execute large and complex calculations. World Community Grid changes the rules. It's free and available to both public and not for profit organisations for use in humanitarian research that might not otherwise be performed."

    He continues, "The Grid is about large scale volunteerism - utilising an individual's unused computer capacity to address scientific problems - and in doing so accelerates research breakthroughs that underpin the Millennium Development Goals. This helps to make the world a smarter, better place. At IBM we appreciate winning the BITC Coffey International Award, and it is my hope that through the award awareness will be increased, more people will join the grid, and more scientists will submit research proposals."

    World Community Grid works when an individual’s computer is on but not in active use. It performs a small piece of complex scientific research, receiving and returning the results via World Community Grid. There is no need to leave an idle computer turned on, but while it’s active and a user takes a break for even a few seconds, World Community Grid harnesses the spare capacity. The accumulation of the idle time in short spurts from millions of computers is the equivalent of one of the world’s top 10 supercomputers.

    World Community Grid is operated by IBM and provided for free to support not-for-profit humanitarian research projects. In total 14 projects are currently running or have completed their computational phase, involving teams of scientists from 35 research centres in six countries. Projects cover three big topics of Nutrition – Disease – Environment. These projects are contributing to five of the eight Millennium Development Goals.

    IBM’s investment in World Community Grid has provided research scientists with over 252,000 years of computer run-time at no cost, and delivered over 290 million research results since 2004. It enables research which would not otherwise be possible because of the time it would take for the calculations to run on the scientist’s own computers. As a result scientists can focus on clinical work to develop the real world applications as opposed to IT, and by significantly accelerating research, develop new approaches and move more quickly into subsequent phases of testing.

    More than 400 organisations are official partners of the WCG, and many thousands more teams have formed through the site. World Community Grid provides public and community organisations such as UNICEF, United Way and Aids Action Committee with a resource to generate public awareness and engagement around their own key issues. It also provides commercial organisations with another means for them and their employees to contribute to a variety of social issues. Organisations such as BankInter, Serco and Ogilvy are partners on the Grid.

    For individuals, World Community Grid helps translate interest into awareness and engagement and promotes volunteerism. This collaborative technology enables people to contribute, altruistically or for deeper personal reasons. This is evidenced by the 200-250 new members who join each day, and by the level of dialogue IBM sees in this online community.

    World Community Grid exemplifies how the application of IBM’s leading edge technology and expertise delivers exceptional value. It epitomises one of IBM’s three values: “Innovation that matters for our company and the world”.

    To find out more, or to volunteer your computer go to http://www.worldcommunitygrid.org/

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    Placerville, California
    Posts
    834
    Good read there Poppa, thanks for posting.
    I crunch for you Gramps R.I.P.
    Photo:
    Canon T2i(550d) w/ Magic Lantern
    Canon 20mm F/2.8
    Canon 50mm F/1.8
    Canon 70-200mm F/4L
    C&C is always welcome on my photos.

    PC
    Asus Crosshair IV Forumla, AMD 1090t-Crunching away @4.1ghz, Noctua NH-U12P SE2,4x2 Musikin Silverline's, Sapphire 6950 2gb(flashed to 6970 and running at 950/1450), Corsair HX650, NZXT Tempest.
    http://500px.com/KodyHungenberg

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