Computex 2009: AMD Demonstrates working 40nm DirectX 11 Silicon

[ToTTenTranz]

4770 wasnt new. Just shrinked.

Just why do you say such rubbish sometimes?
It's a new chip and you know it.

[hurleybird]

It's probably safe to say that the shader area is one of the four rectangle-ish quadrants. Maybe the upper right quadrant as it looks the biggest? Or maybe two quadrants contain shader cores? Looks like some kind of bus interface on the left side at the bottom. The die shots seem to suggest that evergreen is much more than a tweaked and shrunk RV770.

[Helmore]

a bit too small for RV870, do you think ?

Wouldn't be surprised if it was 'only' 180 mm^2, RV670 wasn't much bigger than that. This chip will probably have a higher transistor density than RV740, so my guess would be that it will have around 1,2 Billion transistors at it's disposal. Or if we are really lucky and the previous rumors are true, then this might even have 1,4 Billion transistor, but that seem pretty much impossible in such a small space. Now we only need to figure out how much DX11 cost to implement and then we can guesstimate how many units this chip has. It may actually even clock better than the RV790, so clocks might even be higher.

[zerazax]

Not to mention that RV670 to RV770 saw a 38% increase in die size, but 2.5x more shaders and TMUs. Well, RV740 at 137mm^2 to this at 180ish mm^2 is roughly 30% more... and 2.5x 640 shaders is 1600, so putting 1200 probably isn't out of reach. Frankly, I don't think we have a clue at all what this chip is going to have

[Dante80]

Frankly, I don't think we have a clue at all what this chip is going to have

^^^This...but we can always speculate, can't we?...

Whatever the specifics, there 2 things certain.

1> I will have better performance than 4890
2> AMDs margins will be much better with that diesize

And 2 things are uncertain.

1> Can the X2 derivative handle GT300?
2> Can this die scale down for the "5850", or will we see another chip there?

[Shintai]

Just why do you say such rubbish sometimes?
It's a new chip and you know it.

Please explain to me how its design and architecture differences from the other HD4000 series. And no, being 40nm aint that.

[Nedjo]

Please explain to me how its design and architecture differences from the other HD4000 series. And no, being 40nm aint that.

there are no 55nm HD 4000 GPU with 640 SPs, 32 TMUs, 16 ROPs and 128bit mem BUS!

so you're wrong! RV740 is NOT shrink of any other GPU from AMD!

[Shintai]

there are no 55nm HD 4000 GPU with 640 SPs, 32 TMUs, 16 ROPs and 128bit mem BUS!

so you're wrong! RV740 is NOT shrink of any other GPU from AMD!

And that would make RV740 shaders, memory controller, TMU, ROP etc different how? And I didnt say it was a shrinked existing GPU. RV740 is just a shrink of the existing design without changes.

[Nedjo]

And that would make RV740 shaders, memory controller, TMU, ROP etc different how? And I didnt say it was a shrinked existing GPU. RV740 is just a shrink of the existing design without changes.

don't act ignorant!

this arguing isn't about architecture it's about shrinking!

You wrote that RV740 is just a shrink, and not a new GPU.

G200b is 55nm shrink of G200, or G92 vs, G92b!

RV740 isn't shrink of any other RV7xx GPU, it's a brand new GPU.

[Shintai]

don't act ignorant!

this arguing isn't about architecture it's about shrinking!

You wrote that RV740 is just a shrink, and not a new GPU.

G200b is 55nm shrink of G200, or G92 vs, G92b!

RV740 isn't shrink of any other RV7xx GPU, it's a brand new GPU.

But its still a shrinked 4000 series design. The 4000 series was oroginally designed for 55nm. And now its shrinked to 40nm. It behaves and work exactly like the others. Hence also why it also got the faulty memory controller in terms of downclocking.

[hurleybird]

But its still a shrinked 4000 series design. The 4000 series was oroginally designed for 55nm. And now its shrinked to 40nm.

Thank you captain obvious, thank you for making worthless posts about stuff we already know while wording them in whatever way you think will create a pointless argument.

[drjunk]

I would'nt mind if this card ends up being an updated rv790, and not the full specced rv870. Clues pointing to die size, suggests amd are concentrating on energy consumption this time around. Evergreen code name also points in that direction....but just my thoughts.

[Wrench]

I think Shintai sole purpose is to antagonize everyone.

[Lightman]

I would'nt mind if this card ends up being an updated rv790, and not the full specced rv870. Clues pointing to die size, suggests amd are concentrating on energy consumption this time around. Evergreen code name also points in that direction....but just my thoughts.

I'm with you on that!
Performance good enough to play console ports on 24'' screen and low power consumption! I'm jumping on such a thing straight away!

[perkam]

I would'nt mind if this card ends up being an updated rv790, and not the full specced rv870. Clues pointing to die size, suggests amd are concentrating on energy consumption this time around. Evergreen code name also points in that direction....but just my thoughts.

This isn't VIA we're talking about, its good ol' ATI inside of AMD.

It's going to be $299 and its going to be close to level with the 4870X2.

Those are not my predictions, they are my expectations.

Perkam

[Manicdan]

what are you expectations on its idle power saving features? think it will be better than the 4000 series or possibly better than the 3000 series?

[lockee]

I think Shintai sole purpose is to antagonize everyone.

I think he's a stock pumper.

[Motiv]

Please explain to me how its design and architecture differences from the other HD4000 series. And no, being 40nm aint that.

By all intent and purposes it is a shrink, with a new 128b memory controller and a few simds disabled. So yes, you are right.

[Chickenfeed]

This isn't VIA we're talking about, its good ol' ATI inside of AMD.

It's going to be $299 and its going to be close to level with the 4870X2.

Those are not my predictions, they are my expectations.

Perkam

That sounds entirely reasonable and I expect no less myself. Hopefully they deliver.

As far as power consumption goes, ATI could do a tad better with their idle ( hopefully they've managed to get their GDDR5 controllers to behave better ) but the load on the 4870 was reasonable I felt. Given most people leave their systems on unattended for extended peroids ( waste of power I know...) the lower the idle usage the better.

[Helmore]

It's probably safe to say that the shader area is one of the four rectangle-ish quadrants. Maybe the upper right quadrant as it looks the biggest? Or maybe two quadrants contain shader cores? Looks like some kind of bus interface on the left side at the bottom. The die shots seem to suggest that evergreen is much more than a tweaked and shrunk RV770.

I think CJ could be right with this:

You do realize that AMD flipped the wafer... we're only seeing the backside...

In other words, you can't really read much from the pictures of that wafer. CJ seems to be properly informed most of the time when it comes to this kind of stuff.
He also mentioned that NVIDIA won't be launching any DX11 hardware in 2009, although he said he's looking for some more confirmation regarding this. Would be good for ATI, but not for the consumer.

[clonez]

I think CJ could be right with this:

In other words, you can't really read much from the pictures of that wafer. CJ seems to be properly informed most of the time when it comes to this kind of stuff.
He also mentioned that NVIDIA won't be launching any DX11 hardware in 2009, although he said he's looking for some more confirmation regarding this. Would be good for ATI, but not for the consumer.

i think hes right about the flipped wafer, there just isnt a good reason for creating this 2x2 square design. the reflections are too homogenous, as if it were 4 cache/memory parts or something. wasnt that the main requirement for "free AA" we keep hearing about now and then? so we cant be shure whats the actual shader area size is as we arent seeing it

doesnt change anything with the die size, however

[Sparky]

But its still a shrinked 4000 series design. The 4000 series was oroginally designed for 55nm. And now its shrinked to 40nm. It behaves and work exactly like the others. Hence also why it also got the faulty memory controller in terms of downclocking.

Bah who cares about downclocking. More performance, not less

[ubuntu83]

Bah who cares about downclocking. More performance, not less

but some people want to save power in idle mode.

[Sparky]

but some people want to save power in idle mode.

Idle? What's that

I wouldn't think the memory uses that much in idle though, wouldn't the core clock be more of a power savings?

[Manicdan]

Bah who cares about downclocking. More performance, not less

i cared about downclocking, the 4000 was a power saving failure, and i think many ati fans will hope they get their idle power act together this time around. (especially with such a small chip, they better have good power consumption)

Idle? What's that

I wouldn't think the memory uses that much in idle though, wouldn't the core clock be more of a power savings?

that statement lets us all know you havnt looked into a single detail about power consuption. reducing the ram speed can save 10-20W, reducing cpu speed will save 1-2w, reducing cpu voltage will save 10-15w. ignoring ram speed throttling is the fastest way to get bad reviews.