Lapping the Heatkiller 3.0 [Top tip: DON'T DO IT!]

[Marci]

T'would appear common knowledge is being lost into the depths of time - haven't checked but I guess these links have been omitted from the stickies by now... http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=329453 & http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...ht=anatomy+bow

[DemonEyez]

...

1st
Put on amount of Paste youd normally use,,

2nd
place and mount W/B.

3rd
Remove and wipe off W/B only not IHS.

4th
Do not wipe the IHS,,Respread the paste thats left on IHS.
(plasti wrap finger) works well for this or glove.

5th
I do the above two times back to back . The C's should drop each time.

If the temp goes up , instead of down ,,you only need to perform method #3ONCE.
....

Okay I did as you suggested, now when i remove the block it looks like this:


I'll fire up my sytem and see if reapplying the TIM did some good.

[gOtVoltage]

Yup thats what it should look like..


See how it looks like a haze and that it has filled the pores in the center W/B with out wasting Paste. The Smoother a surfacr the less it will use no matter what.


These new paste are pretty amazing and are so close in performance . It really comes down to How much and the shape contact of W/B.


Try it, .....
The HK is built nice for Intels i tell ya. Little tweaks can make a differance.

Hmm maybe a hair more PRESHURE to left . Im just picky LOL. It can take a few tries to get it just right. Once you have tried this method it gets way easier with each CPU Change/W/B change. It allows you to see exactly How the paste is needed by IHS/W/B. Its also makes it easier to Remove W/B during CPU changes too.

Less paste = Less prybar to remove.

Youll be surprized at how much less paste this actually takes. I know i was

This is the type of detail i do with every build , no matter the cost of system.

[DemonEyez]

Well my temps with my former D-Tek Fuzion have gone down 2 degrees. So kudos to you for pointing out that paste issue.
I also lapped the IHS on my Q9650 this afternoon, but it made no difference for temps with the HK 3.0 block. Also the pressure line looked the same before and after lapping the IHS.

However I have rather conflicting results with my HK 3.0 block. I was under the impression that the HK 3.0 performs better than the D-Tek Fuzion.
So I did some test runs with both blocks, I jotted down idle temps and the highest temps (LinX running ten runs). This is what I got

HK 3.0 + Q9650 with stock IHS: idle 36 / 35 / 37 /28 full load 79 / 79 /67 /67
HK 3.0 + Q9650 with lapped IHS: idle 36 / 35 / 37 /28 full load 79 / 79 /67 / 67

D-Tek + Q9650 with stock IHS: idle 35 / 35 / 37 /31 full load 77 / 77 /67 / 69
D-Tek + Q9650 with lapped IHS: idle 33 / 32 / 37 /28 full load 73 / 73 /65 /65

I actually could't believe the results at first. Then I started thinking, could it be that the IHS on my Q9650 was already flat to begin with. Before lapping I drew a black cross on the IHS to see I if the IHS was bowed , when I just started lapping the cross equaly dissapeared, to that does indeed point to an already flat IHS.

My D-Tek Fuzion block is just a little bowed (using the washer that come with the nozzle kit), the HK 3.0 is far more bowed. So could one say that an bowed block is only useful when you got an bowed IHS? I was not expecting the HK 3.0 to perform this much worse opposed to my Fuzion block. I bought the block for improving my temps, not make them worse.

[gOtVoltage]

It happens sometimes,,Ive kept the V1/V2 because it perform on just about anything.

I wonder how the HK would perform with out the Nozzel plate. I almost wonder if the plate restricts it too much.

You could even try loosing the TWO outer bolts on each side a hair to where there not as snugg as the Single bolt side on each end . that will make the Contact area grow too.

Only loosen enuff to take some flex of the Long side of block. The sides a hair and then leak test it before ya mount it. If it passes the leak test id give it another shot.

It probally has to much bow for your IHS like you were saying.

I know i like to tweak things

Those numbers with the Fusion are pretty nice too.

[DemonEyez]

I tested again, now without the Nozzle plate, and temps are basicly the same, today is a hot day and room temps are about 1.5 degrees higher then yesterday, so it's perhaps a little hard compare, but still , the temps are far higher than with the Fuzion block installed. I also took al look at the baseplate of my Fuzion when switching and it indeed looks like the Fuzion is making far better contact overal, it looks like a circular bow with a tad more presure on the second die-package, which seemes to correspond with my temps being lower for core 3 and 4.

I'm sticking with the Fuzion I think. Will test your suggestion for loosening up the two outer bolts. But I'm a little wary for using that 24/7 eventhough I can run a leek test before.

[DemonEyez]

...

I wonder how the HK would perform with out the Nozzel plate. I almost wonder if the plate restricts it too much.

You could even try loosing the TWO outer bolts on each side a hair to where there not as snugg as the Single bolt side on each end . that will make the Contact area grow too.

Only loosen enuff to take some flex of the Long side of block. The sides a hair and then leak test it before ya mount it. If it passes the leak test id give it another shot.

It probally has to much bow for your IHS like you were saying.

....

Okay , I tried your suggestion. The block seems to make some better contact, but is still bowed in a line. Also I removed the quad nozzle but that doesn't seems to have an impact on the temps. Results are still a few degrees higher than my best temps with my Fuzion block:

HK 3.0 with significant bow + Q9650 with lapped IHS: idle 36 / 35 / 37 /28 full load 79 / 79 /67 / 67

HK 3.0 with less bow with nozzle + Q9650 with lapped IHS: idle 36 / 35 / 37 / 30 full load 77 / 77 /73 / 73

HK 3.0 with less bow no nozzle + Q9650 with lapped IHS: idle 36 / 35 / 37 / 30 full load 77 / 77 /73 / 73

D-Tek Fuzion1 small bow with nozzle + Q9650 with lapped IHS: idle 33 / 32 / 37 /28 full load 73 / 73 /65 / 65

So no HK 3.0 for me anymore. Too bad the shop I bought it from won't take back used watercool products. But I'm sure I get rid of it second hand for a good price.

[WeeMaan]

I'm waiting on my Heatkiller now, but I have a question.
I already have a lapped cpu (i7 920 D0), you think it's worth lapping the block once it arrives?
If it is convex, could lapping it actually hurt the temps?

[Waterlogged]

I'm waiting on my Heatkiller now, but I have a question.
I already have a lapped cpu (i7 920 D0), you think it's worth lapping the block once it arrives?
If it is convex, could lapping it actually hurt the temps?

To answer your Q:

. . .snip. . .
Conclusion

As expected, the performance suffered from lapping down the bow. Though I never expected it to suffer this much!

What did we learn?

- The HK 3.0 has a slightly bowed base.
- It's nice to see your reflection in a block's base but not necessarily a good thing.
- Shane is willing to wreck his stuff in the name of science...

Cheers,
Shane

[Jon K]

I know everyone is into lapping them down and making them flat, which obviously isn't always good.

However, has anyone considered simply polishing the surface that's already formed? IE., taking the HK 3.0 to my 8" buffer wheel and using some copper compound and mirror polishing whatever shape they already machined?

[kinghong1970]

Jon, read the first link from Marci above... polishing is overrated... you don't need to see your gorgeous face on the bottom of your block in order to get nice temps.

[Diverge]

I know everyone is into lapping them down and making them flat, which obviously isn't always good.

However, has anyone considered simply polishing the surface that's already formed? IE., taking the HK 3.0 to my 8" buffer wheel and using some copper compound and mirror polishing whatever shape they already machined?

Using any kind of polish compound for something intended on transferring heat isn't gonna be good. The job of tim is to fill microscopic spaces, but if packed with polish, its won't work as well.

[Brodholm]

There is lines left from the mill I think on the hk. So the surface isn't 100% smooth. Maybe just take a 1200grit paper and lap it with your hand so it don't get flat but it gets shiny? Would that be a good idea? Just to get down the "reffels" or how I should describe it?

But so far? A non lapped HK3.0 with a lapped cpu is best?!

[kinghong1970]

...Just to get down the "reffels" or how I should describe it?...

it's RUFFLES... as in RRRUFFLES have Ridges!

[FireDragon]

So what if both the cpu and the HK r lapped? i would think 2 flat surfaces would b way better then a convex surface for the tim to bond 2, also could you use the indigo extreme on lapped cpu's and blocks? as i noticed it is odish shaped, but you have to "flow it with your cpu pretty much level if i have read right, thinking of getting another cpu and redoing my wc loop and and doing something to my HK base as i can feel small machining ridges with my finger nail....and was considering lapping my IHS as i have taking them off every a64 i have ever owned, and i havnt seen any of that with the new x4 cores, r they epoxied, glued or soldered on now like the intels?

Dragon

[Johnny87au]

ahh serious, i lapped my cpu and noticed my temps were rather crap!