Anand: PII vs. Q9550 vs. i7 crossfire, Phenom II = smoother

[tiro_uspsss]

See, you wouldn't understand, so stop wasting my time. Roofsniper should know what I'm talking about. You have no idea what this discussion is about. And oh, since you deemed it important to quote it, I believe you see no relationship between minimum framerates and fluidity? Like I said; you've earned it, as far as I'm concerned.

oh snap! I just looked @ ur sig HAHA - nooow I understand why all the hate

[Sparky]

I didn't call names

o rly...

Dude, you're late to this party; and while you think you're making sense, you're not. So what is your argument. The tests were not "smoothness," it was an observation the reviewer made and fanboys saw it and jumped on it; mind you, this is was against the data. So if you choose to ignore the data and concentrate on minimum fps and then proceed to draw conclusions that these mean PHII is smoother, then you're an idiot. But I bet you're not because I believe you're mature enough to not base conclusions on two games in which differences in framerates is like 1fps. Grow up already

[roofsniper]

The tests were not "smoothness," it was an observation the reviewer made and fanboys saw it and jumped on it; mind you, this is was against the data. So if you choose to ignore the data and concentrate on minimum fps and then proceed to draw conclusions that these mean PHII is smoother, then you're an idiot. But I bet you're not because I believe you're mature enough to not base conclusions on two games in which differences in framerates is like 1fps. Grow up already

@Tiro: I didn't call names, however, I'm beginning to think you may actually have earned that title.

1fps = smoothness.

Somebody sig that.

i knew you would sneak in a ninja edit once again. also whats against the data? no one is dwelling on min fps. its just part of the idea. i have explained it to you many times that it is about consistency and not about the higher average. if the averages are very close like 1 fps as you say then it comes down to which one displays them at a stable rate. and just spitting out frames as soon as they are processed doesn't seem smooth to me.

[Zucker2k]

i'm sorry, my eyes must be screwing up

btw, I did a quick scan of C2Q vs PII, chart fps - no 50fps diff anywhere... what are u gonna do, now that u cant walk? (seeing as u shot urself in ur 2nd foot)

Drop it Tiro, that statement was addressed to roofsniper who knows exactly what I mean; unless he edits his posts, I'll put up the quote; roof, me and you know you didn't say that in this thread; but your argument has always been that max fps means nothing so why are you jumping all over this 1fps? I guess the argument now is that the difference between "smoothness" and "lagness" (so to speak) is 1fps?

oh snap! I just looked @ ur sig HAHA - nooow I understand why all the hate

I bet you went cross-eyed when you saw my results, right? Tell me the truth! I don't even know why I'm wasting my time with you guys. Shoot, I'm spitting some sig-worthy stuff tonite.

[roofsniper]

Drop it Tiro, that statement was addressed to roofsniper who knows exactly what I mean; unless he edits his posts, I'll put up the quote; roof, me and you know you didn't say that in this thread; but your argument has always been that max fps means nothing so why are you jumping all over this 1fps? I guess the argument now is that the difference between "smoothness" and "lagness" (so to speak) is 1fps?

find this mythical quote you speak of. id like to see it.

[tiro_uspsss]

Drop it Tiro, that statement was addressed to roofsniper who knows exactly what I mean; unless he edits his posts, I'll put up the quote; roof, me and you know you didn't say that in this thread; but your argument has always been that max fps means nothing so why are you jumping all over this 1fps? I guess the argument now is that the difference between "smoothness" and "lagness" (so to speak) is 1fps?

drop it? u want me to drop it after calling me an idiot?

keep dreaming.. keep posting in here, & I'll show u how I 'drop it'

[Zucker2k]

drop it? u want me to drop it after calling me an idiot?

keep dreaming.. keep posting in here, & I'll show u how I 'drop it'

In living color! Good job; let's see what you can do.

[Brother Esau]

Yea do us a favor and take your negative B.S back into the news thread where you can probably get away with it!

You will get lynched in here we don't want any Bull Shi**t in our only haven on the forum from constant bashing from Intel creeps that feel they need to Flex their E-Penis.

[tiro_uspsss]

In living color! Good job; let's see what you can do.

post allll the bs u want - u appear to be pro at that

[roofsniper]

well zucker i went to the smoothness thread for you and searched for the word max. even tho i never said anything relating to the max fps in this thread which you were accusing me of i thought id show you what i said before.

maybe but if it is an outlier compared to the rest of the data then it shouldn't be considered. the min and max can paint a picture but it doesn't always come down to that. anyone have any ideas on how to test this idea? i had one idea but i don't have a core 2 to test it.

i see nothing wrong with this.

not necessarily. if one system has just one problem then the min will be set low and won't be a good representation. its more of what is happening in split seconds over the period of the entire trial.

nothing here.

its not just the min and max its what is happening every single second not just during two different times during the bench.

if someone with a core 2 could run fraps and record the frames times and run 3d mark 06 it would be nice. then you could see the differences between each frame instead of just the fps values.

nope

there are many intel fanboys as well but that has nothing to do with the topic. and yes people use intel in video card reviews. why? because in video card reviews you make graphs to show fps. if intel gives more fps then the graph will show that the card has a higher fps. video card reviews have nothing to do with the smoothness of a cpu. most people are trying to show that the latest card has the highest fps as possible so people will buy them.



i think you are forgetting the point. i am talking about smoothness here. not how fast a task can finish that has absolutely nothing to do with how smooth it is. and i am not talking about min and max fps either. what does that have to do with it? lets say you have an amd getting a max of 50 fps and a min of 40 fps and an average of 45 fps. then you have an intel getting a max of 70 fps and a min of 45 fps and an average of 50 fps. how big of a change is the drop from 70 fps to 45 fps going to be? you will be able to tell thats for sure. even if the amd has a lower minimum fps and a lower maximum if it can keep the frames coming out at a more consistent pace and within a reasonable amount of the intel cpu it should be smoother. its not like its that easy of a test to find out which is smoother. the only info we have right now are neutral people saying that amd is smoother when they have tested them side by side and some people switching to amd because they think its smoother. unless you can have some info to disprove this i don't know what you are trying to say. just because one gets a higher ammount of fps doesn't mean it will be smoother. especially if the fps changes around by a dramatic amount. only way i can think of testing this is by taking fps measurements at many different intervals and comparing them. because by comparing max fps average fps and min fps there is no way to tell which one is smoother.

hmmmm?

[Sparky]

Please just stop the useless, pointless arguing and THANK YOU FOR DERAILING THE THREAD once again

Zucker take your personal fights someplace else please.

[iandh]

Drop it Tiro, that statement was addressed to roofsniper who knows exactly what I mean; unless he edits his posts, I'll put up the quote; roof, me and you know you didn't say that in this thread; but your argument has always been that max fps means nothing so why are you jumping all over this 1fps? I guess the argument now is that the difference between "smoothness" and "lagness" (so to speak) is 1fps?

The thing is that when a system that gets higher avg fps is also getting lower min fps, that gives it a larger fps delta, which means less framerate stability by definition. How that translates into real world performance is subjective, which is where the author's comments come in.

[Brother Esau]

In living color! Good job; let's see what you can do.

Do you really want to see Zucker? I can arrange this! Please leave peacefully

[tiro_uspsss]

well zucker i went to the smoothness thread for you and searched for the word max. even tho i never said anything relating to the max fps in this thread which you were accusing me of i thought id show you what i said before.

i see nothing wrong with this.

nothing here.

nope

hmmmm?

oh noooes! but .. but.. he's got no feet left!! whats he gonna shot off now?!?

[keithlm]

oh noooes! but .. but.. he's got no feet left!! whats he gonna shot off now?!?

Is this like the script in the Holy Grail? Should I get popcorn?

Z: Oh, oh, I see, running away then. You yellow b@st@rs! Come back here and take what's coming to you. I'll bite your legs off!
R: What are you going to do, bleed on me?
Z: I'm invincible!
R: You're a loon.

[Zucker2k]

Thanks roof, it's somewhere in that last quote. I'll leave the reading to you. As far as your logic its already established that a large gap between frames would lead to that symptom; but your argument assumes that the drop from 70 t0 45 fps happens abruptly, which may not be the case at all. But here is the OP taking 1fps to mean smoother gameplay for PHII and all of you are defending it while making different arguments on the side. Another logic is that, a fast processor is bad for gaming because in conjunction with the gpu, certain frames would be rendered faster where as other frames may be rendered slowly due to the gpu (because the processor is too powerful anyway) having problems rendering that part of a game faster?

Edit: Yawn: Off to bed.

[tiro_uspsss]

But here is the OP taking 1fps to mean smoother gameplay for PHII

did u not read before?? :

here is a very new 'concept' for u: ppl make posts containing poor spelling, grammar & english on this very forum..mm.. probably every second.

u got that? good:

a) iandh was refering to smoothness PII vs C2Q
b) so was the OP - yes I know the thread title says Ci7, but thats not what he meant - believe it or not poor spelling, grammar, english enters thread titles as well

a) correct
b) I listed the article author, the name of the article, and a quote from the article... could be seen as misleading but I was just trying to get across the most info with the least thread title.

my goodness, I'm even repeating myself!

[iandh]

Thanks roof, it's somewhere in that last quote. I'll leave the reading to you. As far as your logic its already established that a large gap between frames would lead to that symptom; but your argument assumes that the drop from 70 t0 45 fps happens abruptly, which may not be the case at all. But here is the OP taking 1fps to mean smoother gameplay for PHII and all of you are defending it while making different arguments on the side. Another logic is that, a fast processor is bad for gaming because in conjunction with the gpu, certain frames would be rendered faster where as other frames may be rendered slowly due to the gpu (because the processor is too powerful anyway) having problems rendering that part of a game faster?

Why are you grasping so tightly to that 1fps? That is a tiny part of the equation... a small piece of a larger puzzle.

I didn't "take 1fps to mean Phenom II is smoother", I read Anand's words that Phenom II is smoother, and agreed with them because they matched my experiences.

You're putting uneccessary spin on my thread and twisting the meaning of my posts...

[tiro_uspsss]

Why are you grasping so tightly to that 1fps? That is a tiny part of the equation... a small piece of a larger puzzle.

I didn't "take 1fps to mean Phenom II is smoother", I read Anand's words that Phenom II is smoother, and agreed with them because they matched my experiences.

You're putting uneccessary spin on my thread and twisting the meaning of my posts...

a sign that he's clutching at straws.. tales of a desperate man fighting a losing battle OH DAH MANTEEE!!!

[tiro_uspsss]

Edit: Yawn: Off to bed.

read: I got

[Zucker2k]

did u not read before?? :





my goodness, I'm even repeating myself!

See below...

Why are you grasping so tightly to that 1fps? That is a tiny part of the equation... a small piece of a larger puzzle.

I didn't "take 1fps to mean Phenom II is smoother", I read Anand's words that Phenom II is smoother, and agreed with them because they matched my experiences.

You're putting uneccessary spin on my thread and twisting the meaning of my posts...

You both refresh your memory: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...7&postcount=91

[roofsniper]

Thanks roof, it's somewhere in that last quote. I'll leave the reading to you. As far as your logic its already established that a large gap between frames would lead to that symptom; but your argument assumes that the drop from 70 t0 45 fps happens abruptly, which may not be the case at all. But here is the OP taking 1fps to mean smoother gameplay for PHII and all of you are defending it while making different arguments on the side. Another logic is that, a fast processor is bad for gaming because in conjunction with the gpu, certain frames would be rendered faster where as other frames may be rendered slowly due to the gpu (because the processor is too powerful anyway) having problems rendering that part of a game faster?

Edit: Yawn: Off to bed.

i am saying that it is possible to have a huge drop like that and that would explain why it could have higher average fps numbers but not look smooth. here we are dealing with fps averages that have a difference of 1 or less fps. so the average is very similar so it comes down to what happens during the course of the process. i think because of the imc and the high bandwidth of the amd cpus it would be more consistent. intel is processing the info and shooting it at as soon as it is done. which is what amd is doing as well. but at times when the cpu is busy and loaded up like during some action scene or explosion or something it might choke. the core 2 cpu could suffer from low fsb bandwidth and the lack of the imc. so even tho it is throwing the frames out as fast as possible it is being held down. amd on the other hand can let them out with a consistent speed because of the imc and the high bandwidth. so when they action scenes come along the fps values will drop on both but because the core 2 is getting a higher average already and because it is being held down due to bandwidth issues it will choke during times. this is my explanation and reasoning.

[iandh]

See below...

You both refresh your memory: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...7&postcount=91

What are you trying to show me? All I said in that post was "I don't particularly count min FPS to mean smoother".

[tiro_uspsss]

See below...

You both refresh your memory: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...7&postcount=91

So if you count min fps as smoother (which I don't particularly btw), then in this case my title holds true. With PII and i7 920 both clocked at 4Ghz, PII gets higher min fps- so your attempt to invalidate my thread title... is, well, invalidated.

dude, u need to ease up on shooting ur body parts, there cant be many left judging by this thread

[G0ldBr1ck]

Another AMD news thread was just locked down, wont be long till this one is locked.