Informal test results CPU 350 vs Apogee GTZ

[gabe]

I asked Stephen to run a limited series of tests to have an idea of the relative performance of these blocks.

Test setup:

Hardware is enclosed in our environmental chamber, and coolant is maintained with our chillers at 30C. Motherboard was Asus Rampage II extreme, CPU was a 920, all stock (unlapped). Factory default were used (no overclock) for this test.

3 mounts only were applied. Both products were installed using their respective stock mounting system. Our preferred methodology is to report the best of all mounts in each series. Load utility used was Burn K6 (8 instances).

[Hondacity]

what pumps were used?

[gabe]

what pumps were used?

Our industrial chiller pump. It's a Little Giant pump with control valves.

[INFRNL]

Thats interesting. Very different results than posted in other tests

[hellcamino]

Our industrial chiller pump. It's a Little Giant pump with control valves.

That tells us nothing as they have many pumps built to suit for a variety of applications and demands. Real world testing with a common pump would be significantly better, you should be using DDC3.2 and D5 pumps as not many of us are running little giant sump pumps in our pc's

[nikhsub1]

That tells us nothing as they have many pumps built to suit for a variety of applications and demands. Real world testing with a common pump would be significantly better, you should be using DDC3.2 and D5 pumps as not many of us are running little giant sump pumps in our pc's

I think you don't understand. They have an industrial pump (similar in specs to an Iwaki MD-30Z IIRC) that they can vary the flowrate with valves... the water is kept at a constant temp. Your comments are irrelevant.

Gabe it would be interesting to see the GTZ at 1.33GPM as well... I realize the 350 is way more restrictive but still.

[hellcamino]

I think you don't understand. They have an industrial pump (similar in specs to an Iwaki MD-30Z IIRC) that they can vary the flowrate with valves... the water is kept at a constant temp. Your comments are irrelevant.

Gabe it would be interesting to see the GTZ at 1.33GPM as well... I realize the 350 is way more restrictive but still.

If that is the case why is it that the two blocks were tested at differing flow rates? Aside from that it would be more useful information having measured flow rates using typical pumps in a comparison with the blocks in question.

[silverphoenix]

If that is the case why is it that the two blocks were tested at differing flow rates? Aside from that it would be more useful information having measured flow rates using typical pumps in a comparison with the blocks in question.

They weren't, not exactly the different flow rates were due to the 350 being more restrictive.

[nikhsub1]

If that is the case why is it that the two blocks were tested at differing flow rates? Aside from that it would be more useful information having measured flow rates using typical pumps in a comparison with the blocks in question.

What does it matter what pumps are used? The flow rates are posted... I am assuming that the 350 has maxed the pump out at 1.33GPM... In the real world, if they used a D5 to test, the 350 would have much less flow rate than the GTZ, the 350 is uber restrictive. So to test both at the same flow rate is comparing apples to oranges. Even if you had 50 RD-30's in series the 350 is STILL going to have much less flow rate than the GTZ.

[hellcamino]

They weren't, not exactly the different flow rates were due to the 350 being more restrictive.

My point being that the added real world info would be great for the average person planning a loop. If a DDC3.2 was used and those were the flow results a person wanting to add a nb block or gpu block to the same loop would have no concerns about flow if using the GTZ. If that was the case it would make a big difference in many people's planning if the difference was that great with a common pump. If a D5 showed even lower or sub par flow for the koolance block it might make a very large difference in who bought which block.

I'm not knocking results here, I'm asking for more information.

[Stealth42o]

Thats interesting. Very different results than posted in other tests

That's what I was thinking.

[santiagodraco]

Thats interesting. Very different results than posted in other tests

What other tests? Serious question, I haven't seen a whole lot and thought you could point some out

As for it being different than other tests... well...ah no comment.

[gabe]

If that is the case why is it that the two blocks were tested at differing flow rates? Aside from that it would be more useful information having measured flow rates using typical pumps in a comparison with the blocks in question.

let me clarify for you. The pump is set to an arbitrary flow rate with very precise control valves. This flow rate is not adjusted for the entire duration of the comparative tests. The difference in flow rate measured between the two blocks reflects the pressure drop induced by each block. Simply put, what this test tells us is that one block is severely restrictive; some of the forum members have already come to that conclusion, and this test is merely validating it.

The temperature data is significant, in so far as our environment (30C constant water-temp) is far more precise than what could be accomplished outside of a lab. This eliminates a huge variable that plagues numerous at-home experiments.

[hellcamino]

let me clarify for you. The pump is set to an arbitrary flow rate with very precise control valves. This flow rate is not adjusted for the entire duration of the comparative tests. The difference in flow rate measured between the two blocks reflects the pressure drop induced by each block. Simply put, what this test tells us is that one block is severely restrictive; some of the forum members have already come to that conclusion, and this test is merely validating it.

The temperature data is significant, in so far as our environment (30C constant water-temp) is far more precise than what could be accomplished outside of a lab. This eliminates a huge variable that plagues numerous at-home experiments.

I understand your testing and while good information it could be expanded upon. Think about it, if you showed results with some common pumps including temperature variations and flow rate, assuming your results thus far aren't skewed would it not benefit your sales? I'm not trying to be an ass here but really your info means squat to me as it has no relation to an actual pc lcs.

[santiagodraco]

So, you didn't test with your system increasing the flow rate to match (which can probably be done by end users) OR so that flow rates are higher on both above your current test.

What I'd like to see are the results with:

1. The same flow rate for each block
2. The flow rate increased for each block by say 50%

Seems that should be simple to do since your system gives you so much control. I'm not knowledgeable enough to know if there's a threshold where say increasing flow rate has little effect... and if the low flow on your Koolance numbers is below any theoretical threshold for the koolance block...

In other words I wonder if the temperatures might compare differently at a higher flow rate?

[gabe]

I think you don't understand. They have an industrial pump (similar in specs to an Iwaki MD-30Z IIRC) that they can vary the flowrate with valves... the water is kept at a constant temp. Your comments are irrelevant.

Gabe it would be interesting to see the GTZ at 1.33GPM as well... I realize the 350 is way more restrictive but still.

Please clarify your thinking.

[santiagodraco]

What does it matter what pumps are used? The flow rates are posted... I am assuming that the 350 has maxed the pump out at 1.33GPM... In the real world, if they used a D5 to test, the 350 would have much less flow rate than the GTZ, the 350 is uber restrictive. So to test both at the same flow rate is comparing apples to oranges. Even if you had 50 RD-30's in series the 350 is STILL going to have much less flow rate than the GTZ.

Except that the GTZ may top out, performance wise, at flow rate of x while the 350 may continue to improve through x so that it actually yields better results. And if x is below the rate of which a given pump is capable of flowing liquid through the 350... there ya go.

[hellcamino]

Well I see Martin's testing of the GTZ was done using a DDC3.2 with xspc top and a tfc 480 radiator. The block appears to have been maxed out with that setup at 1.86 gpm, now THAT is useful information! So that tells us that Gabe's test is a bit skewed here, I think a redo is in order with your "arbitrary" pump setting set to max the GTZ at 1.86 gpm.

[sirheck]

Nice test Gabe.
Do you think the Koolance 350 might perform better or equal to the GTZ
if it had the extra 1GPM flow?

Never mind it seems my question was already asked, only in a diifferent way.

Then again if the 350 is getting around 1.5GPM It is probably is at its max
thermal transfer rate anyway.

[Hondacity]

based on my results with k350 and the ek supreme...and martins data...

gabe's flow results are very close...to that of using two 355's with xspc tops...

just my two cents..

[santiagodraco]

You know, there's another thing about this "test" that just drives me nuts....

Anyone remember the infamous radiator tests that Koolance ran? The one where they tested using something other than real world equipment? And they got ran out of town?

Why does this test smack of that to me? I just can't put my finger on it...

[santiagodraco]

based on my results with k350 and the ek supreme...and martins data...

gabe's flow results are very close...to that of using two 355's with xspc tops...

just my two cents..

Well then use two 355s, and 1, and a D5. Real world or the highway. Hell, show results at 3 different pump speeds.

Then the results can stand on their own and we'll know. Who knows maybe the GTZ really is king with a 1.5c delta at all flow rates.

[sirheck]

What i see is everything being equal but the cpu blocks.
Seems the 350 block is about 1GPM (avg) less for the above mentioned test.

So it would be safe to assume it(flowrate) would be equal or proportional
no matter which pump is used

[gabe]

Except that the GTZ may top out, performance wise, at flow rate of x while the 350 may continue to improve through x so that it actually yields better results. And if x is below the rate of which a given pump is capable of flowing liquid through the 350... there ya go.

Given the similarities in design, this is quite unlikely. A set of thermal resistance vs flow rate curves would have to be drawn in order to identify the performance profiles and to validate this nonetheless.

[hellcamino]

I look forward to seeing some real world comparison testing by skinnee.