Why some people are bashing HardOCP review about Phenom II ?

[Particle]

If his review were anywhere close to being professional, I might defend his right to having an opinion. However, with as unprofessional and personal sounding his review was, I see no problem with some people responding in kind. I agree with most of the other people here that the severely botched review is poorly written and reads more like an epic-length rant than anything that can be associated with a credible review site.

[Calmatory]

I dont like the review myself but do we realy have a thread made for slandering an individual? I realy dont think this should be here.



This kyle spoke his mind but seems he's not allowed the freedom.

Except that he did not say "In my opinion PhII sucks", instead he said "The ultimate fact is that PhII just plain sucks. Loser product. Period". Guess what he wanted to really say? Intel > AMD no matter what, would be my bet.

Not that I care, I never used to visit HOCP anyway nor really know anything about them. People should never trust one review, no matter who does it and how credible one is. Anyone who will read multiple reviews can spot the difference and ignore the bad one.

[Miss Banana]

Now I love this forum as much as I love [H], but this kind of soap opera bull is getting eerily SF-like.

Could you maybe explain why you love [h] as much as you love XS?
I am just curious. Why would someone think positively about a community ran by unprofessional, biased, and immature people, where freedom of speech is only OK as long as you agree with whoever makes the reviews, reviews that by the way really do not deserve the description "review".

*Miss-Banana - the alternatives in your links are not SLI boards.

I never came with alternatives, neither did I look for them. I said that insisting on doing a Phenom II review with tri sli leads to problematic situations in which it's no longer clear what piece of hardware is contributing to what score.

Not much of a choice exactly, which is why I mention in the thread that the review should be updated if nVidia releases a better SLI board for AMD. << What are the chances of that happening though?

Yeah, or an even better idea, why not use a more relevant enthusiast test-setup that will work on both platforms?
Why was trisli picked when there are not even AM2+ trisli motherboards?
Ask yourself this question, and try to keep in mind that a reviewer should -in general- be trying to give objective information about a new product.

[MrMojoZ]

No really, aren't troll/flamebait posts like this against the rules here? If I posted a mocking picture in the Intel forum I'd get hit up by a mod.

[DistortioniZm]

How many of those that disagreed did it without the typical "Kyle is an Intel fanboy" or "[H] is a cult" nonsense? It's a bit hard to read through the noise. I have no problem with people putting well, thought-out and coherent statements, but those were few and far between. Most are just blinded AMD fans attacking the reviewer personally and not the review itself.

Anandtech's quality of review has also slipped since the glory days, so to say it is thorough or "unbiased" - you gotta have a short memory. Anandtech's own words were quoted in Intel marketing slides in 2006 for the Core2 presentation. You call that unbiased? Any AMD fan should have remembered that.

Anyway, it looks like Anand has taken some complaints seriously since he himself wrote the Phenom II review and not a random staff intern.
Now I love this forum as much as I love [H], but this kind of soap opera bull is getting eerily SF-like.

*Miss-Banana - the alternatives in your links are not SLI boards. Not much of a choice exactly, which is why I mention in the thread that the review should be updated if nVidia releases a better SLI board for AMD. << What are the chances of that happening though?

I understand what you're trying to say, and I agree. But I just meant that the article itself seemed unbiased and thorough, not what the site has done in the past in 2006 with slides or whatnot. As far as I can tell the Atech article was just better.

[Baam]

This kyle guy seems to be anti AMD/ATI. I remember when he said the 4870X2 was a great card in his preview, then a few weeks later said it wasn't that great and the 260 sli is better price/performance, yet in this review he claims in his post that people here are only for cutting edge tech, So price/performance don't mean . Which is it?

[biohead]

This kyle guy seems to be anti AMD/ATI. I remember when he said the 4870X2 was a great card in his preview, then a few weeks later said it wasn't that great and the 260 sli is better price/performance, yet in this review he claims in his post that people here are only for cutting edge tech, So price/performance don't mean . Which is it?

A lack of self-worth and a corporate penis up his rear.

[demonkevy666]

I never came with alternatives, neither did I look for them. I said that insisting on doing a Phenom II review with tri sli leads to problematic situations in which it's no longer clear what piece of hardware is contributing to what score.



Yeah, or an even better idea, why not use a more relevant enthusiast test-setup that will work on both platforms?
Why was trisli picked when there are not even AM2+ trisli motherboards?
Ask yourself this question, and try to keep in mind that a reviewer should -in general- be trying to give objective information about a new product.

no AM2+ nv baord then what are ?
720A Am2+
750A Am2+
780A AM2+

personal choice... look at the foxconn board 780A Sof highhad OC closer to 4ghz then then sb750 board hit.
the sb750 seem only improve our Nb clocks.

in the end he mention using phenom II on an 780A board, but nothing else.

[Particle]

He didn't say there weren't any nVidia AM2 boards--just that there were no Tri-SLI ones. I don't know if that's true or not since I don't pay much attention to nVidia stuff, but I just wanted to highlight that since that's different than what you were attacking him for.

[Halk]

It's another bad review, as a result any future reviews need to be read carefully. End of story. I can't understand the personal attacks.

[demonkevy666]

He didn't say there weren't any nVidia AM2 boards--just that there were no Tri-SLI ones. I don't know if that's true or not since I don't pay much attention to nVidia stuff, but I just wanted to highlight that since that's different than what you were attacking him for.

all 780A do TRI SLI. it's the higher end chipset form nv
whyelse would they have 3 pci -express slots, sidenote: 4 for the destroyer (s.o.s price jump after phenom II release I know should have bought it when it $204 >_< fudge)

best part is we don't' need ACC with phenom II, I know AMD wants to promote dragon platform but that leaves these systems nameless for platform basically lol

[possessed]

best part is we don't' need ACC with phenom II, I know AMD wants to promote dragon platform but that leaves these systems nameless for platform basically lol

I also thought that the dragon platform was with a board with sb750, but pretty much every info I've read recently refers only to a 790 chipset (fx and gx), no reference to the sb

[Dean]

How many of those that disagreed did it without the typical "Kyle is an Intel fanboy" or "[H] is a cult" nonsense? It's a bit hard to read through the noise. I have no problem with people putting well, thought-out and coherent statements, but those were few and far between. Most are just blinded AMD fans attacking the reviewer personally and not the review itself.

Anandtech's quality of review has also slipped since the glory days, so to say it is thorough or "unbiased" - you gotta have a short memory. Anandtech's own words were quoted in Intel marketing slides in 2006 for the Core2 presentation. You call that unbiased? Any AMD fan should have remembered that.

Anyway, it looks like Anand has taken some complaints seriously since he himself wrote the Phenom II review and not a random staff intern.
Now I love this forum as much as I love [H], but this kind of soap opera bull is getting eerily SF-like.

*Miss-Banana - the alternatives in your links are not SLI boards. Not much of a choice exactly, which is why I mention in the thread that the review should be updated if nVidia releases a better SLI board for AMD. << What are the chances of that happening though?

Please, don't EVER reference Anand and [H] in the same post. At least Anand has glory days to return to... [H] has always sucked (though I used to like the forums back in the day). Do you honestly think even in Anand's darkest hour they would have posted garbage like that "review"? Compare the [H] "review" to this:

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets...oc.aspx?i=3492

I have no real bias towards or against AMD (current rig is Intel, previous was AMD), so I am not upset with Kyle's conclusion because I feel that AMD should win. I'm upset with that whole "review" because I feel it was a punch to the gut of reviewers everywhere. [H] is a site with a lot of traffic, and they honestly think it's OK to publish garbage like that for the masses to consume?

-Dean

[TL1000S]

I am a little overwhelmed by the reactions here.
But I can understand them.

The review is a joke to say the least.
I did not read it at first, just looked at the tables/results, and they sure do not put AMD/PHII in a good light.

Here is the "setup" from this joke of an "Editor".

Test Setup

AMD Phenom II 940 clocked to 3.2GHz; MSI DKA790GX Platinum; 2GB Corsair DDR2-8888; BFGTech GTX 280 OC; Intel 8GB SSD; Koolance Exos 2 LS and 345 CPU waterblock; Thermaltake ToughPower 1200w PSU.


Intel Core 2 Extreme QX9770 clocked to 3.2GHz; ASUS Ramapage Extreme; 4GB Corsair DDR3-1600; BFGTech GTX 280 OC; Intel 8GB SSD; Koolance Exos 2 LS and 345 CPU waterblock; Thermaltake ToughPower 1200w PSU.


Intel Core i7 965 clocked to 3.2GHz; ASUS P6T6; 6GB Corsair DDR3-1600; BFGTech GTX 280 OC; Intel 8GB SSD; Koolance Exos 2 LS and 345 CPU waterblock; Thermaltake ToughPower 1200w PSU.

(Choosing a Nivida card was a "smart trick" with AMD chipset).

Later on in the review he starts talking/testing 3-SLI
Then the above setup obviously do not apply. Just a line in that part of the review that they used another Nvidia-chipset based board from MSI.

Talk about testing orange and apples

Anybody with the least of knowledge about both hardware or testing methods must think this "editor" is mad.
It is as testing a 455 "rocket" in a 1000lpbs open car vs. BMW F1 in a 20tonn semi.
And calling it a *CPU-scaling test*???

BTW.
He "The Mad Editor" has commersials for AMD on the front page.
Just to show that he is a complete whore.
Which is even worse. A pathetic fanboi has at least integrity.

[Mav451]

Lol Particle's sig is becoming true. *hint Rule 1A.

[Dean]

Yeah I was like "wow... how is he testing tri-SLI with that MSI mobo that doesn't support it" to myself as well. I wasn't sure if I was just an idiot and he knew some special trick or what.

[Glow9]

got my self banned from [H], cant even see the home page

Welcome to the club

[Dean]

Man, they won't let you see the front page when they ban you? Wow.

[saki_bomber]

surprised i'm not yet

i guess give it time

[Particle]

all 780A do TRI SLI. it's the higher end chipset form nv
whyelse would they have 3 pci -express slots, sidenote: 4 for the destroyer (s.o.s price jump after phenom II release I know should have bought it when it $204 >_< fudge)

best part is we don't' need ACC with phenom II, I know AMD wants to promote dragon platform but that leaves these systems nameless for platform basically lol

That's fine and all, but I think you've entirely missed the only point I was making in my post. I honestly couldn't care any less if they do tri-SLI or not. You were attacking the guy for saying that there are no AM2+ nVidia boards, and that isn't what he said. He was debating the SLI thing. You need to respond to him, not me.

[qurious63ss]

That's funny right there, I don't care who you are. On a serious note...bad gallag bad.

[cdawall]

why exactly did he choose to use the MSI K9N2 and not the foxconn destroyer or Asus corsshair II you know boards that work right and are known for overclocking? <-wait don't answer this

i do however like the 2x1GB of DDR800 in the AMD vs 4GB of 1066 in the intel... to bad he couldn't figure out how to use the EPP option in the MSI's BIOS its only a click away kyle :p


alas it was a BS review to boost intel (whose ad was on the front page of his review) P2 competes clock for clock with the Q9400 its not aimed at higher it competes with higher but all it can do is shake an angry fist. Maybe with more mature chips and BIOS's we will see higher oc's and better scores but for now high end C2Q>PII

[informal]

why exactly did he choose to use the MSI K9N2 and not the foxconn destroyer or Asus corsshair II you know boards that work right and are known for overclocking? <-wait don't answer this

i do however like the 2x1GB of DDR800 in the AMD vs 4GB of 1066 in the intel... to bad he couldn't figure out how to use the EPP option in the MSI's BIOS its only a click away kyle :p


alas it was a BS review to boost intel (whose ad was on the front page of his review) P2 competes clock for clock with the Q9400 its not aimed at higher it competes with higher but all it can do is shake an angry fist. Maybe with more mature chips and BIOS's we will see higher oc's and better scores but for now high end C2Q>PII

Exactly.Also if you go by the review of the board they used for the tri SLI testing with Phenom II,you will see it was packed with odd results (tested with phenom I) and it underperformed miserably,compared to other AMD boards.Yet Kyle decides to use this particular board for Phenom II SLI tests even though his own initial review of the same board stated the board had plethora of issues with performance across the board

[Mav451]

Exactly.Also if you go by the review of the board they used for the tri SLI testing with Phenom II,you will see it was packed with odd results (tested with phenom I) and it underperformed miserably,compared to other AMD boards.Yet Kyle decides to use this particular board for Phenom II SLI tests even though his own initial review of the same board stated the board had plethora of issues with performance across the board

http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTUyMyw2LCxoZW50aHVzaWE=
Very interesting. If you look at the conclusion to that review, it's obvious that Dan D (Motherboard Editor) had a far better experience with the board than Kyle. Now if I remember correctly, Kyle had an AMD 939 setup...not sure about AM2 though - I'm pretty sure he jumped to a Q6600 after. So perhaps Kyle's AMD experience, post s939, is not as good as Dan. It wouldn't surprise me, considering Dan is the primary guy for Mobos anyway though.

My problem would be if Kyle didn't consult Dan, the more experienced guy with AMD boards to begin with, to assist with the review. Definitely a good point you brought up though.

[informal]

Yeah,either way the review is bs ,only for the fact the board acted up in the earlier review.Whether or not Kyle is competent enough to do the tests and setup the systems correctly ,I don't know.I doubt he is,but that's my opinion.

Edit:
This is the comment on the board Kyle used in his " SLI review" of the Phenom II:

Beyond that, the confusing performance and terrible board layout is not the only thing worthy of complaint. How Dan got away with a such a good overclocking experience is beyond me. I could not get the board stable at stock CPU speeds with 1066MHz DDR2 memory speeds. The first thing the board did was to hard lock during an aborted Windows install and then require me to reset the CMOS when I had only set it to “optimize defaults.” Watchdog did not function well for me. OS corrupted once during RAM OCing. NVIDIA hard drive manager constantly gave me worthless pop-up balloon warnings. Hotplug SATA worked, HotUNPlug SATA caused me to have to reset the CMOS by hand again to POST. Getting Hybrid Power to work required some hoop jumping that was in no way documented by MSI or NIVIDIA even though they knew what had to be done – and they were active in correcting this on its websites. If you did not shut down the board properly, it would require me power on an off multiple times before I could POST. Wrong Hybrid Power drivers were on the MSI-included disk. Hybrid Power would not turn off for me easily, then just finally did. And last but not least, the board would not successfully run a Crysis benchmark without BSODing.

Now what sane individual would use this board for 3 SLI testing of Phenom II is beyond me... I'd assume people would use Asus crosshair II or similar(given the comment above and the problems described).The comment above renders Kyle's 3 SLI tests on phenom II useless .