Good SAS Raid Controller, 8 ports?

[crazy1323]

I have an adaptec 5 series card and it is great. I have the 51245 and it is great. However it needs a fan blowing on it. I am going to watercool mine very soon. I would recommend the adaptec 5 series to anyone who is in need a a raid card. I would go for the Adaptec 5805 personally.

[IronWarrior]

How you going to watercool it? :o

At the moment, I have got a 120mm Scythe S-FLEX SFF21E Silent Fan 1200 RPM listed to cool the card, thinking that I can attach it to the side panel or something.

But could I mount a fan on the card itself and if so, what size?

[XS Janus]

^well you gotta be creative!
A member here: jcool, has his 5xxx water cooled using a north bridge block I think.
Maybe he could post a pic.

[jcool]

Just click the 5405 my sig
It's an Aquacomputer block for the SB of MSI P35 mobos (46mm hole distance above and below the IOP core), it fits perfectly. Only downside: G1/8"




Never went above 45C after I installed the block, and this machine is running 24/7/365

[IronWarrior]

That's so cool.

Ah I have noticed there are holes in the card, am guessing these allow you to mount a fan.

[alfaunits]

Those are too small for any decent size (read: non-noisy) fan, hmm.

[Levish]

food for thought, you can disable boot bios of most raid controllers and use a plain VR or SSD for a OS drive for fast boots

[IronWarrior]

food for thought, you can disable boot bios of most raid controllers and use a plain VR or SSD for a OS drive for fast boots

Then allow the Raid to turn on afterwards?

[biohead]

Serra, check your PM box.

[Serra]

I know this thread kind of died a few days ago but I just received some information that I wanted to post on the forums regarding the controller heat output issue that may helpful to the OP or at least someone else who comes across this thread on a Google search.

Anyway, the other day I picked up a Dell PERC 6/i which runs an LSI 1078 chip. Without any air flow at all, it does get hot enough that if you hold your finger to it for a few seconds you have to take it off or risk a burn. However I have just rested a very low RPM 120mm fan next to it and it's completely cool to the touch now. So it seems while they do heat up, the actual heat output is quite low, low enough that the heatsink is colder than my skin at any rate ATM.

Incidentally I picked up the PERC 6/i (used, but verified functional) for only $175USD from a non-eBay store - LSI 1078 chip (same as on their highest end internal stuff), 2x wide SAS ports (8x SATA/SAS total without extenders), 256MB DDR2-667 cache (not upgradable). IMO a pretty good alternative, considering its just a re-branded high-end LSI... half the price of anything comparable (likely helps that it's used, but you won't find a used current-gen Areca/3Ware/etc so I feel comfortable with the statement).

We'll see if I end up doing a review of the thing or not. I likely will at some point, but I'll only have 3-4x WD 6400AAKS/LS + ACARD 9010 available to bench with so I won't be able to do anything too fancy. If anyone happens to want one before I get around to doing this, send me a PM and I'll send you a copy of the procedure I used to flash it from Dell -> latest LSI firmware if you've never done it before. Still trying to figure out how to get LSI drivers to find it (Dell drivers work and are relatively new, but LSI has a slightly newer set out that I want to try).

[jcool]

Anyway, the other day I picked up a Dell PERC 6/i which runs an LSI 1078 chip. Without any air flow at all, it does get hot enough that if you hold your finger to it for a few seconds you have to take it off or risk a burn. However I have just rested a very low RPM 120mm fan next to it and it's completely cool to the touch now. So it seems while they do heat up, the actual heat output is quite low, low enough that the heatsink is colder than my skin at any rate ATM.

Yeah but that is a Perc 6... which is a single core XOR at 500 or 800Mhz.
Any raidcon equipped with the Intel IOP348 (Dualcore 1,2Ghz) such as the Adaptec 5 series is an entirely different story, these things ACTUALLY give off loads of heat. Even with a 4000rpm 40mm fan added to the stock cooler, my 5405 still hit close to 80C which I was not comfortable with, hence the water cooler.

Incidentally I picked up the PERC 6/i (used, but verified functional) for only $175USD from a non-eBay store - LSI 1078 chip (same as on their highest end internal stuff), 2x wide SAS ports (8x SATA/SAS total without extenders), 256MB DDR2-667 cache (not upgradable). IMO a pretty good alternative, considering its just a re-branded high-end LSI... half the price of anything comparable (likely helps that it's used, but you won't find a used current-gen Areca/3Ware/etc so I feel comfortable with the statement).

The Percs do have a great price/performance ratio if you get them off ebay, but with a Perc it is still kind of a gambling game, because you are betting on the card to run in your mobo, which is not a given for all mobos. There are lots and lots out there that just don't work with a Perc 5/6 simply because these cards were never designed to properly run anywhere except in Dell servers, hence don't give a damn about general compatibility.

We'll see if I end up doing a review of the thing or not. I likely will at some point, but I'll only have 3-4x WD 6400AAKS/LS + ACARD 9010 available to bench with so I won't be able to do anything too fancy. If anyone happens to want one before I get around to doing this, send me a PM and I'll send you a copy of the procedure I used to flash it from Dell -> latest LSI firmware if you've never done it before. Still trying to figure out how to get LSI drivers to find it (Dell drivers work and are relatively new, but LSI has a slightly newer set out that I want to try).

I think you'll like the setup, I am running 4x WD6400AAKS on my 5405 in Raid 5 since early 2008, no problems whatsoever even though they are not rated for 24/7 operation

You can compare your benchies to mine then (I did Raid 0/1/5/6/10 when I first set it up), even though the firmware of the 5405 has been optimized for even better speed by now.

[Serra]

Yeah but that is a Perc 6... which is a single core XOR at 500 or 800Mhz.
Any raidcon equipped with the Intel IOP348 (Dualcore 1,2Ghz) such as the Adaptec 5 series is an entirely different story, these things ACTUALLY give off loads of heat. Even with a 4000rpm 40mm fan added to the stock cooler, my 5405 still hit close to 80C which I was not comfortable with, hence the water cooler.

It's also not based on any form of Intel architecture, so it's comparing apples and oranges in that way too (ditto with clocks, though I'd be surprised if 500MHz found a way to equal 2x 1.2GHz - still, should sit at least somewhere between the later IOP333's and current 348's... no idea where in between tho). But if anyone decides to go with an LSI-based card, that's hopefully some info for them, I didn't intend it to sound like I was generalizing for all cards and I'm sorry if it did.

The Percs do have a great price/performance ratio if you get them off ebay, but with a Perc it is still kind of a gambling game, because you are betting on the card to run in your mobo, which is not a given for all mobos. There are lots and lots out there that just don't work with a Perc 5/6 simply because these cards were never designed to properly run anywhere except in Dell servers, hence don't give a damn about general compatibility.

The compatibility issue is extremely well documented in DIY circles, both cause and fix. All boards should work with them now. It wasn't that the cards were only designed to work in Dell mobos - that's hogwash - the issue was with bad programming on the part of motherboard manufacturers.

I think you'll like the setup, I am running 4x WD6400AAKS on my 5405 in Raid 5 since early 2008, no problems whatsoever even though they are not rated for 24/7 operation

You can compare your benchies to mine then (I did Raid 0/1/5/6/10 when I first set it up), even though the firmware of the 5405 has been optimized for even better speed by now.

Hopefully I'll be able to go snag some drives today if my local store will price-match Newegg, otherwise it'll have to wait a bit. Either way I'd love to see your benches to compare against once they arrive. PM me with them if possible.

[jcool]

The compatibility issue is extremely well documented in DIY circles, both cause and fix. All boards should work with them now. It wasn't that the cards were only designed to work in Dell mobos - that's hogwash - the issue was with bad programming on the part of motherboard manufacturers.

They were made for Dell servers, so in their making, the engineers didn't care in what other mobos they might or might not work - ofc they weren't designed to ONLY work in Dell mobos. As opposed to other controllers such as Areca, Adaptec, 3ware etc who actually try to certify their cards for a s many mobos as they can.
You can always misinterpret other people's statements if you try really hard

Anyway, I wasn't aware that all board work with them now - at least according to the German hwluxx forums, where I followed the official thread on them closely for over a year now, there are still lots of people unable to run a Perc 5 (mainly older Gigabyte mobos but some others as well).

Would be interesting to know if they work in all x58 boards, gonna have to read up on that.

Hopefully I'll be able to go snag some drives today if my local store will price-match Newegg, otherwise it'll have to wait a bit. Either way I'd love to see your benches to compare against once they arrive. PM me with them if possible.

You can find them if you follow the link in my sig saying "Adaptec 5405"

[Serra]

They were made for Dell servers, so in their making, the engineers didn't care in what other mobos they might or might not work - ofc they weren't designed to ONLY work in Dell mobos. As opposed to other controllers such as Areca, Adaptec, 3ware etc who actually try to certify their cards for a s many mobos as they can.
You can always misinterpret other people's statements if you try really hard

Ha ha, sorry. It's just that it wouldn't exactly be a new trick for Dell to pull to make their stuff proprietary so I thought it was important to make sure we were on the same page.

Anyway, I wasn't aware that all board work with them now - at least according to the German hwluxx forums, where I followed the official thread on them closely for over a year now, there are still lots of people unable to run a Perc 5 (mainly older Gigabyte mobos but some others as well).

Would be interesting to know if they work in all x58 boards, gonna have to read up on that.

This link is one of the best I've found for solving the PERC 5/i problems on Intel chipsets. Info on the PERC 6 is a lot harder to come by (presumably because they're newer and are only starting to hit the used market in numbers high enough to bring down prices notably), but seems to be about the same. In all my searching I didn't come across more than maybe a dozen posts with DIYers with the 6-series, but the idea is effectively the same.

You can find them if you follow the link in my sig saying "Adaptec 5405"

Sweet! Once I'm able to pick up the drives and run off a few benches I'll send you my results.

[jcool]

All right then, awaiting your results.
As a matter of fact, I am currently looking into the possibility of getting a perc5 myself.. the Raid 5 on the 5405 is pretty much filled, and I need more space. I wanted to go for the 5805 but damn, prices have risen like mad. It's an Intel 5400 chipset so I guess the Perc should work fine in there, only question is will it work along with the 5405...

[metro.cl]

guys what do you think of the Supertrak EX8650? i don't have the budget to pay more for a sas controller.

[Serra]

Should be a good product, runs on the top-of-the-line Intel IOP. It's too bad it doesn't have expandable cache, but 256MB is enough for most of us. Not sure what the guys with 2GB do with all their cache, likely leave most of it to sit I think.

Maybe someone who actually has a Promise controller can shed some light on the drivers/associated software.

[Serra]

OK, all I'm going to have time to do for a bit are the RAID-5 and RAID-6 tests. To give a comparison against the 5405 I've used a 256k stripe size and enabled write caching like you did in your benches. I'm not sure if that's optimal or not for these drives, but I'm happy enough with the results that I'm going to leave it alone. RAID-0 and combo results can be part of a real review later.

Comparing the two cards results are certainly interesting. There are enough wiggles between us that I think it's evident we have some differences in actual hard drives so this isn't as terrific of a comparison as it could be, but it's the best we're going to get.

RAID 5:
HD Tach:
- Read: You beat me by about 20MB/s
- Write: You beat me by about 9MB/s
- Random Access: You have me beat by about 0.8ms

But then....

ATTO:
- Excepting your anomalously large 256 & 4096 read results that I want to blame on cache (but don't think for sure I can) I pretty well slap you around like... well, something that gets slapped hard.

I have no good idea why the differences would be so large between the two tests. A few hypothesis maybe, but nothing that I really like.


RAID 6:
HD Tach:
- Read: I win by ~9MB/s
- Write: I win by ~30MB/s
- Random Access: I win by about 0.3ms (???)

ATTO:
- You seem to have me beat on writes (most notably at 8k), but above 8k the difference doesn't look huge... though the 4 & 8mb reads don't quite keep up on mine. The reads I definitely have you beat on *at 64k and above*, you definitely have me below that.



So... hmmm. I don't know quite what to say. Short of seeing either of us pulling notably better results with updated drivers (ie. you said yours were outdated and I know the LSI drivers are supposed to be better on my card) I don't think we can call either card better than the other at this point - though I'll concede that I would expect with SSD's your card to pull away. For mass storage though I hope I've at least shown to the forums that the thrifty-priced PERC 6/i ($175USD, used) can be a real contender to the high-priced alternatives.

So what do you think jcool? 12 hour benching sessions tweaking for optimum performance? Or would you rather just agree that the first one to visit the others country gets free beers? The latter option sounds a little better to me



Edit: First 2 images are RAID-5, second 2 are RAID-6. Should be pretty obvious given the sudden speed decrease, but being an Internet forum it's not safe to assume everyone who sees this will understand the obvious.

[jcool]

Nice tests serra,

sad you didn't test a Raid 0 tho - that would have been more conclusive as to the drive difference issue.
Anyway, the performance of the Perc 6 looks really good, especially in Raid 6 (I don't care as much about ATTO as I used to, since even the weakest MLC SSDs can score sky-high there and still suck ass in real life applications or even HDTach/tune).

I don't know how far the driver optimizations on Adaptec's side have progressed, I benched the drives back in April 08 when I set the whole thing up. Since then, there were 3 firmware updates I think, and I am not even on the latest. Running a HD-Tach read only while running the OS from the array (which is 90% full by the way ) I got 280MB/s average read, and the latest firmware is supposed to give the reads a real boost again
See Napalm's comparison-thread with SSDs, it's quite evident there.

Still, my next storage array won't be about performance, as is totally irrelevant for storage whether the array can write 200 or 400MB/s. I am thinking a perc 5/6 + 4 of these 2TB WD Greenpower, if they arrive soon.

Is there a noticeable difference between the Perc 5 and 6 in Raid 5? I think the Perc 5 can be outfitted with more cache which might be beneficial?

So what do you think jcool? 12 hour benching sessions tweaking for optimum performance? Or would you rather just agree that the first one to visit the others country gets free beers? The latter option sounds a little better to me

Definitely the latter one
Also obviously I can't bench the whole setup again with the latest drivers and firmware without transferring 1,8TB to an equally safe location first, which I don't have at the moment - so we'll just leave it at that and both be happy

About the Promise EX8650 somebody was asking about earlier, from what I recall it is very strong in Raid 0 configs, even stronger than the Adaptec, but not as good with parity raids (5/6 etc)