Nanofluid tested with three different temperatures on a Q6600

[littleowl]

I like using the stuff either way and I didn't see any wear on the block or anything else.... I will put it in on my B3 as soon as I get time. I should have done it already just not really in the mood to deal with it I guess....

[littleowl]

*sigh*

Andy, its not instantanous cut like a water jet.

Its gradual, have particles, create impact, over time you will have abrasions.

You think the grand canyon was cut out using a waterjet?

Your using simple concepts like errosion.

but NaeKuh! Plain water does the same thing......... I think you guys are going a lot deeper then it really is!!! That is what Andy is trying to point out here IMO

[NaeKuh]

but NaeKuh! Plain water does the same thing......... I think you guys are going a lot deeper then it really is!!! That is what Andy is trying to point out here IMO

blah..

But you dont have solid particles impacting. <You guys dont see this aspect, your thinking visocisty and concentration>
particles will abrase the internals of your stuff, this will happen over time.

as i said my friend gave me these timelines.. and scenarios.

And he's 99% right when i have a firm debate with him,
so feel free to agrue with him.

Only way to pull this off is to use particles which is less dense then the copper its impacting.

I should call him in this thread.

[littleowl]

But NaeKuh I am running his stuff! It does a decent job.. I took it off my E6600 and plan on putting it on a B3 Q6600

[NaeKuh]

But NaeKuh I am running his stuff! It does a decent job.. I took it off my E6600 and plan on putting it on a B3 Q6600

owl never said it didnt work.

i even said under low flow situations his data is TRUE.

Blah... seriously once again, if nanopartilcles was sooo good, why didnt 3m make one for computer usages like flournert?

i can thikn of a bunch of crays that would of used it in a heart beat, and even the military went on liquid gallium. <-- doesnt this sound wierd to you guys?

[littleowl]

That is a good question. I have found that like he said a while back that if I use a smaller rad it works better then when I use my 120.3 rad's.

[NaeKuh]

That is a good question. I have found that like he said a while back that if I use a smaller rad it works better then when I use my 120.3 rad's.

if he didnt bend physics every time he tried to answer, i wouldnt be so mean.

But he's trying to write the code in watercooling which no one but phsysics can.

This is why i want to talk to its creator.

[NaeKuh]

I'm not saying that nanofluid is good or bad either way as far as this stuff is concerned, or any other for that matter as it relates to LC. I'm just saying that abrasion isn't an issue to be concerned about. Not enough surface area on the nanoparticles themselves to worry about, or pressure to cause it in a LC loop.

I understand your a legend and all, but I think your a tad off base on this premise.

andyc

okey so tell me.. why my friends reason holds false.

I told you guys what he told me.

As you accelerate the water in the block, you will cause more kentic impact. Since water is super super fine were looking at molecule dimensions now, there is no impact besides mol. on mol. on the copper.

You introduce a hard substance such as a nano particle, and speed it though an injector, you get the same effect of little hammers hitting your plate.
(tell me THIS IS NOT TRUE)

So over the time as these particles hit your base plate, it will change the shape of the copper and the cooling area.
(tell me this is ALSO not true)

So for the particles to work and NOT damage the copper, the particles must be of less desnity the copper which then WONT aid in thermal transfer.

So andy, Tell me where im wrong... so i can take it back to my friend who taught me nanofluids and fight back with him.

dude you guys are butching physics... seriously..

[[XC] riptide]

I haven't kept track of all the nano fluid threads that are floating about. What i do know is that in areas with water which is pumped from underground, sand particulates can cause extensive damage to pumps etc. This is for domestic supply... so we're not talking about 50,000 PSI jet cutters.

[[XC] riptide]

=snip-..

Good points... but he said the mixture was the same density (or nearly) as water?

But anyways... what we need to know is what is the hardness and does it decrease with the size of the grain at these particular sizes.

When you decrese somethings size, Naekuh, it becomes virtually harder but after a critical size hardness decreases. Sounds mad but true.

[NaeKuh]

But anyways... what we need to know is what is the hardness and does it decrease with the size of the grain at these particular sizes.

Rip read my entire arguement.

this is what ive been trying to get for the past 2 pages.

When you decrese somethings size, Naekuh, it becomes virtually harder but after a critical size hardness decreases. Sounds mad but true.

yes i know which is why i want to know what the heck it is.

I'm just saying that the basis of your argument is wrong from the abrasion perspective.

andyc

Ummm then why did rip say this?

I haven't kept track of all the nano fluid threads that are floating about. What i do know is that in areas with water which is pumped from underground, sand particulates can cause extensive damage to pumps etc. This is for domestic supply... so we're not talking about 50,000 PSI jet cutters.

[fart_plume]

They won't give you what the particle is or it's actual density, I'm afraid, as that would id the material for other companies to copy it, ie. trade secret.

[NaeKuh]

They won't give you what the particle is or it's actual density, I'm afraid, as that would id the material for other companies to copy it, ie. trade secret.

brings me back to one.

if its so powerful, how come a large comapny like 3M hasnt invented it yet?

[Sabre2]

Do systems typically last long enough for damage to be done by nanofluids? Seriously, if you're using the same WC hardware after 10 years of use... something isn't right (like those people who still bring Windows 98 machines into my shop).

I can understand the effects of it all... but what is the timeline for damage to be noticable and affect performance?

[NaeKuh]

I have no idea, but doesn't mean anything as it relates to nanoparticles as far as I'm concerned. As much as I respect Rip, doesn't make it any more so becuase he said than when you did.

Mass, velocity and concentrations come into play when your talking about sand, water pipes and water jets. Just not the same with nanoparticles in the concentration and size being used for nanofluids right now.

andyc

and how do you know this?

The OP hasnt told us anything besides its close to water. (if it is how does that help at all?)
The OP hasnt even given any sample to skinnee or Martin310 who had all the stuff to test it.
(infact i told him the choices he made were kinda off)

So how do you know what the particles are and what he is talking about? Until he says something we have to assume its:

One of these:
Quantum dots
Nanostructures
Colloidal gold
Colloidal silver
Iron nanoparticles
Platinum nanoparticles


If he just answer this question, we can all be happy because i'll just ask my friend the results of it.

But having the particle be some mystery element X.
Common, this isnt a fruit roll were buying.

Do you want to see another repeat of Fluid XP original on our forum but only on a much larger bibblical proportion is what i am talking about.

[fart_plume]

brings me back to one.

if its so powerful, how come a large comapny like 3M hasnt invented it yet?

Dunno, maybe they don't feel the market for it is big enough?

[gillbot]

As interesting as all this has been, I'll stick with good old distilled water. Distilled easier to deal with and the Nano Fluid's improvment gains don't seem to worth the added cost and hassle.

I'm sure there's a market for it though, and good luck to you.

andyc

That's been my stance all along. Seems like a load of hype to me.

okey excuse me im a legend on anandtech for h2o also the cases and cooling mod.

just who are you giving nano fluid to on anandtech thats loving it? (if its chris you will never see a review on it)

Infact i can only think of 5 people on AT who would be able to test a LC system, and none of them have nano fluid.

Also im very skeptical about this stuff.

Why? cuz any answer you've given us was with a shaddy wrong backwards answer.

Volumne not being important in any system is really funny. Volumne holds delta, more volumne the more work the system needs to do bring coolant temps up.

Your coolant would be at best for LOW FLOW systems which is NOT LOW VOLUMNE systems. And if your saying we can use a smaller radiator, then no, smaller radiators still dictate to faster fans regardless of any coolant used. So no, your statement is completely wrong.

Sorry we arent like TOMS hardware who accept blind truths. A lot of us here are probably WAY more experienced then you, and have been cringing at your comments. If you want to promote this product, lets speak to the guy who developed it. Because from the sounds of things, your the guy who is marketing(PR), and not in RnD.

So i want to know who your source testing is at anandtech, because i dont like people using my forum name without proper backing up.

Good points... but he said the mixture was the same density (or nearly) as water?

But anyways... what we need to know is what is the hardness and does it decrease with the size of the grain at these particular sizes.

When you decrese somethings size, Naekuh, it becomes virtually harder but after a critical size hardness decreases. Sounds mad but true.

Density is irrelevant, you can etch materials with water and suspended sponges given enough velocity. I think the overall evasiveness and butchering of the properties of cooling have NaeKuh honed in like a rabid squirrel on a trashcan. He smells BS and reltem is just being more and more evasive and butchering his replies.

[NaeKuh]

Again, I'm not arguing the validity of this particular fluid and it's value as a LC coolant. I'm just saying that abrasion isn't an issue.

If I thought it was worth testing and using, I would have done so when the chance was offered to me. But my concerns wern't centered on abrasion issues. As far as the testing I've seen, the value isn't there just as with any coolant other than distilled water.

andyc

ability for water to carry more heat.

Ability to cheat the system by using a different medium to more efficiently transfer heat from one end to the other.

I really want this kind of coolant... however... my friend says go gallium then.

Do systems typically last long enough for damage to be done by nanofluids? Seriously, if you're using the same WC hardware after 10 years of use... something isn't right (like those people who still bring Windows 98 machines into my shop).

I can understand the effects of it all... but what is the timeline for damage to be noticable and affect performance?

brings us back to the first page... what is the particle causing impact, and how much pressure is your system holding...

let me ask an RD-30 owner, after reading this page, are you willing to drop your 275 dollar pump package on the coolant without knowing what particle it is?

Or even more fear anyone thinking of using it in a DDC-2 which are prone to dying for no reason?

[Sabre2]

NaeKuh, he already explained why he isnt sharing all that information. And I think his reason actually makes sense. If I had a great idea, I wouldnt go spilling it out on a forum full of technically inclined people and risk loosing my ideas to copycats.

It sounds to me like you're concern is genuine but you aren't taking the whole picture into consideration. When the liquid is ready, it will be ready. When it is distributed, it will be tested. When it is pattened and fully protected, he will probably tell us all the details. When it's tested, your conclusions will either be valid or not but there is nothing more important than real testing when it comes down to this type of stuff.

Patience , this guy is convinced this will work!

[[XC] riptide]

Density is irrelevant, you can etch materials with water and suspended sponges given enough velocity.

Oh. I know! I spoke density specifically to Naekuhs post. Which mentioned density.

I know water can be used to cut titanium at >50,000 PSI with jewel heads and at Mach 3.

[NaeKuh]

LOL,

Until someone shows me some new earth shattering results, I'll be using good old pure distilled direct from Wally World or Safeway. I've gotten so I buy it in the 2.5 gallon jugs now with the little faucet.

andyc

which is why im dreaming for a uber coolant.

[skinnee]

and how do you know this?
The OP hasnt even given any sample to skinnee or Martin310 who had all the stuff to test it.

Actually, I did get an early sample and I completely botched a couple of things...such as flow rate.

Dual Core Nanofluid Test

...but the formula has changed since. In my testing there was a slight gain in a low flow setting (~2ºC).

I completely disagree with the statement/concept of Nanofluid turning a single rad into the cooling capacity of a double or triple though.

[NaeKuh]

It sounds to me like you're concern is genuine but you aren't taking the whole picture into consideration. When the liquid is ready, it will be ready. When it is distributed, it will be tested. When it is pattened and fully protected, he will probably tell us all the details. When it's tested, your conclusions will either be valid or not but there is nothing more important than real testing when it comes down to this type of stuff.

Patience , this guy is convinced this will work!

blah

So we wait until after people buy it know what it is?

Can we just talk to the developers. Shiet let me talk to them, i'll even sign an NDA.

[Aberration]

I would just like to say that your avatar is so fitting NaeKuh.

Not that its a bad thing, but just reading this thread and then seeing your avatar has me literally LMAO.

[relttem]

I thought I answered all the questions except what it is made of and the exact concentration/formula, which I won't until the patent comes back favorably, but I told you the density is close to water - extremely close. So close that for rudimentary calculations you can assume water density. Oh, cost and availability I haven't answered either. I don't have an answer to those yet
You can calculate the velocity needed to cut copper with a nanoparticle if you would like. You can easily assume a nanoparticle with a size of 50nm and do it, you can also do it with varying nanoparticle materials since it will be mass dependent. Or, since it was mentioned that the pump head was 10psi you can calculate what size of hole you would need to push your fluid through to obtain that velocity. Then, you can compare it to the hole size in your set-up. Also, knowing the hole size and pump head you can calculate the velocity of the water going thru it to see how close you are to reaching the cutting velocity.