so, just out of curiousity, will this also enable sli/crossfire like functions for let's say matrox graphics cards?
so, just out of curiousity, will this also enable sli/crossfire like functions for let's say matrox graphics cards?
1. Asus P5Q-E / Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550 @~3612 MHz (8,5x425) / 2x2GB OCZ Platinum XTC (PC2-8000U, CL5) / EVGA GeForce GTX 570 / Crucial M4 128GB, WD Caviar Blue 640GB, WD Caviar SE16 320GB, WD Caviar SE 160GB / be quiet! Dark Power Pro P7 550W / Thermaltake Tsunami VA3000BWA / LG L227WT / Teufel Concept E Magnum 5.1 // SysProfile
2. Asus A8N-SLI / AMD Athlon 64 4000+ @~2640 MHz (12x220) / 1024 MB Corsair CMX TwinX 3200C2, 2.5-3-3-6 1T / Club3D GeForce 7800GT @463/1120 MHz / Crucial M4 64GB, Hitachi Deskstar 40GB / be quiet! Blackline P5 470W
I'm just hoping it also scales using multiple monitors.
And I'm just hoping Mr DrWho confirms this information.Originally Posted by Dslyder
i thought i also heard that the lucid chip is the one that windows sees the drivers for, and then the chip manages any combination of cards
That sounds like very complex drivers. Or how would the chip/drivers talk to the cards and utilize all their abilities.
You aint gonna go nowhere without the AMD/nVidia etc drivers.
Plus with all the going back and forth. The possible latency/shutter issues could create havok.
Also if its the chip that handle it. Will we need a new mobo with a new DirectX/OpenGL version? Or Perhaps even worse with another thing like OpenCL.
Even with the Hydra 100 chip. There is no OpenGL 3.0, openCL or DirectX 11 support. Plus its PCIe 1.1 and not 2.0.Lucid, with their Hydra Engine and the Hydra 100 chip, are going in a different direction. With a background in large data set analysis, these guy are capable of intercepting the DirectX or OpenGL command stream before it hits the GPU, analyzing the data, and dividing up scene at an object level. Rather than rendering alternating frames, or screens split on the horizontal, this part is capable of load balancing things like groups of triangles that are associated with a single group of textures and sending these tasks to whatever GPU it makes the most sense to render on. The scene is composited after all GPUs finish rendering their parts and send the data back to the Lucid chip.
Lucid promises that you'll be able to mix and match older and newer cards from the same vendor. For example, an Nvidia 9800 will work with an Nvidia 6800. How far back the support goes, however, will probably depend on whether the two cards in question are supported by the same driver. While the ability to mix and match different cards is supported by ATI's Crossfire, it is not something the Nvidia supports with SLI.
Also, just to be clear, you will not be able to use graphics cards from both Nvidia and ATI at the same time. This is because Windows does not support the use of two different graphics drivers while rendering a 3D application.
Last edited by Shintai; 12-20-2008 at 11:06 AM.
Crunching for Comrades and the Common good of the People.
The OS only uses the lucid chips driver, the lucid chip handles the GPU's. Lucid there self said it would support mixed boards of ATI and NV
Particle's First Rule of Online Technical Discussion:
As a thread about any computer related subject has its length approach infinity, the likelihood and inevitability of a poorly constructed AMD vs. Intel fight also exponentially increases.
Likewise, the frequency of a car pseudoanalogy to explain a technical concept increases with thread length. This will make many people chuckle, as computer people are rarely knowledgeable about vehicular mechanics.
Rule 2:
When confronted with a post that is contrary to what a poster likes, believes, or most often wants to be correct, the poster will pick out only minor details that are largely irrelevant in an attempt to shut out the conflicting idea. The core of the post will be left alone since it isn't easy to contradict what the person is actually saying.
Rule 2A:
When a poster cannot properly refute a post they do not like (as described above), the poster will most likely invent fictitious counter-points and/or begin to attack the other's credibility in feeble ways that are dramatic but irrelevant. Do not underestimate this tactic, as in the online world this will sway many observers. Do not forget: Correctness is decided only by what is said last, the most loudly, or with greatest repetition.
Remember: When debating online, everyone else is ALWAYS wrong if they do not agree with you!
Directly from Lucids Site............http://lucidlogix.com/technology/distributed.html
The HYDRA real-time distributed processing engine can:
Deliver cost-effective graphics performance with a near-linear to above-linear performance.
Operate in an adaptive, dynamic, real-time manner.
Eliminate bottlenecks that exist in typical 3D graphics applications.
Provide interoperability with all GPUs and chipsets.
Work with the latest versions of DirectX and OpenGL
As a thread about any computer related subject has its length approach infinity, the likelihood and inevitability of a poorly constructed AMD vs. Intel fight also exponentially increases.
Likewise, the frequency of a car pseudoanalogy to explain a technical concept increases with thread length. This will make many people chuckle, as computer people are rarely knowledgeable about vehicular mechanics.
When confronted with a post that is contrary to what a poster likes, believes, or most often wants to be correct, the poster will pick out only minor details that are largely irrelevant in an attempt to shut out the conflicting idea. The core of the post will be left alone since it isn't easy to contradict what the person is actually saying.
When a poster cannot properly refute a post they do not like (as described above), the poster will most likely invent fictitious counter-points and/or begin to attack the other's credibility in feeble ways that are dramatic but irrelevant. Do not underestimate this tactic, as in the online world this will sway many observers. Do not forget: Correctness is decided only by what is said last, the most loudly, or with greatest repetition.
Remember: When debating online, everyone else is ALWAYS wrong if they do not agree with you!
Thats wrong. You need the AMD or nVidia driver. And you cant mix cards that isnt supported by the same driver. Atleast not in Vista/Windows 7 etc.
Crunching for Comrades and the Common good of the People.
look at my post directly above yours Shintai. what does that Info look like it means to you? Are they trying to give us the wrong idea?
As a thread about any computer related subject has its length approach infinity, the likelihood and inevitability of a poorly constructed AMD vs. Intel fight also exponentially increases.
Likewise, the frequency of a car pseudoanalogy to explain a technical concept increases with thread length. This will make many people chuckle, as computer people are rarely knowledgeable about vehicular mechanics.
When confronted with a post that is contrary to what a poster likes, believes, or most often wants to be correct, the poster will pick out only minor details that are largely irrelevant in an attempt to shut out the conflicting idea. The core of the post will be left alone since it isn't easy to contradict what the person is actually saying.
When a poster cannot properly refute a post they do not like (as described above), the poster will most likely invent fictitious counter-points and/or begin to attack the other's credibility in feeble ways that are dramatic but irrelevant. Do not underestimate this tactic, as in the online world this will sway many observers. Do not forget: Correctness is decided only by what is said last, the most loudly, or with greatest repetition.
Remember: When debating online, everyone else is ALWAYS wrong if they do not agree with you!
Nope. But you miss a key factor. The OS.
Sure it would work on say Linux. Just not on Windows.
And directly from the horse:
Lucid promises that you'll be able to mix and match older and newer cards from the same vendor. For example, an Nvidia 9800 will work with an Nvidia 6800. How far back the support goes, however, will probably depend on whether the two cards in question are supported by the same driver. While the ability to mix and match different cards is supported by ATI's Crossfire, it is not something the Nvidia supports with SLI.
Also, just to be clear, you will not be able to use graphics cards from both Nvidia and ATI at the same time. This is because Windows does not support the use of two different graphics drivers while rendering a 3D application.
Crunching for Comrades and the Common good of the People.
Thats second hand Info is it not?
Tho I do see how basing there statments on Linux could be there direction to juice up the marketing but I dont think they would strait up lie about it
As a thread about any computer related subject has its length approach infinity, the likelihood and inevitability of a poorly constructed AMD vs. Intel fight also exponentially increases.
Likewise, the frequency of a car pseudoanalogy to explain a technical concept increases with thread length. This will make many people chuckle, as computer people are rarely knowledgeable about vehicular mechanics.
When confronted with a post that is contrary to what a poster likes, believes, or most often wants to be correct, the poster will pick out only minor details that are largely irrelevant in an attempt to shut out the conflicting idea. The core of the post will be left alone since it isn't easy to contradict what the person is actually saying.
When a poster cannot properly refute a post they do not like (as described above), the poster will most likely invent fictitious counter-points and/or begin to attack the other's credibility in feeble ways that are dramatic but irrelevant. Do not underestimate this tactic, as in the online world this will sway many observers. Do not forget: Correctness is decided only by what is said last, the most loudly, or with greatest repetition.
Remember: When debating online, everyone else is ALWAYS wrong if they do not agree with you!
You mean info directly reported from Lucid people?
They aint lying about it. You just assume that its only for your Windows platform.
Also think of it. Writing drivers for AMD and nVidia cards is a huge process. You think Lucid could just slap its own driver together that worked on both? There is a reason you saw 2 8800GT cards.
Personally I think consoles will be the prime target.
Crunching for Comrades and the Common good of the People.
Although I would rarely do so, I agree with Shintai:
That's directly from Microsoft website. http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/device...imonVista.mspx (Yes, it is a multimonitor thread, but it covers this issue just fine).If multiple graphics adapters are present in a system, all of them must use the same WDDM driver. If there are two graphics adapters with WDDM drivers from two different manufacturers, then Windows will disable one of them. The VGA adapter will be enabled, and the second device will be disabled.
Notice that XPDM drivers still support heterogeneous multi-adapter as they did in Windows XP. A user who has such a configuration working fine in Windows XP will encounter a problem when upgrading to Windows Vista. An external monitor connected to one of the graphics adapters will have no video signal, because it is disabled. An error message will appear on system boot, as described later in this article.
The solution for this problem could be as follows:
•
A user could force the installation of a XPDM driver for each of these devices, and therefore get heterogeneous multi-adapter multi-monitor to work as in Windows XP.
-Or-
•
The user could change the graphics hardware configuration by choosing multiple graphics adapters that use the same WDDM driver. Graphics adapters from the same ASIC family generally have the same graphics driver. In late 2006, each of the major graphics vendors had a single WDDM driver for all supported WDDM graphics adapters. Please consult the graphics vendor's Web site for details on their driver support.
Background Notes: This restriction only affects a system that has WDDM drivers. WDDM was designed with stability as a key objective. Based on information gathered through Windows Error Reporting and the related Online Crash Analysis for Windows XP display drivers, Microsoft decided to simplify the graphics stack in Windows Vista.
The use of multiple graphics adapters occurred when graphics hardware vendors did not expose multiple connectors on graphics adapters. Today, almost all modern adapters support two or three connectors such as DVI, VGA, and S-Video. Also, most OEMs are now offering SLI/Crossfire configurations that support two or more graphics adapters that could also be used to connect more than two display devices when not in SLI/Crossfire mode.
I can't imagine how Lucid would make mix-and-match work without Microsoft's and/or ATI/Nvidia's support.
Win7, XP or even Linux are different things (as they support multiple WDDM drivers), but I doubt that they can make it work there either..
If they can do it however, I'll be the first one to applaud.
Actually Junos. it wouldnt work in XP either. Because they still cant overlap when rendering 1 3D application. On XP you could have 1 system. 1 AMD card, 1 nVidia card. But you also need 2 3D applications to use both.
Crunching for Comrades and the Common good of the People.
I remember what Lucid were saying back then and what they are saying now that the product is around the corner are two different things. I have no doubt that they have the technology to use any vendors cards together but Shintai is absolutely right, what can be done in Lucids lab and what Windows can do with the technology in our homes is very different. With Intel as a major backer of this project you can be sure that Larabee will probably gain the most out of the tech anyway. From that business perspective Intel stands to sell more gpu's in that segment if there is no cross vendor capabilities. Purposely being crippled? Who knows?
Last edited by del_fuego; 12-20-2008 at 01:09 PM.
I wouldnt call Intel as a backer btw. Its Intel Capital. They are simply a very broad investment company.
https://www.intelportfolio.com/portco/cps/
Crunching for Comrades and the Common good of the People.
this thing would be perfect on an X2 card instead of the PLX.
As a thread about any computer related subject has its length approach infinity, the likelihood and inevitability of a poorly constructed AMD vs. Intel fight also exponentially increases.
Likewise, the frequency of a car pseudoanalogy to explain a technical concept increases with thread length. This will make many people chuckle, as computer people are rarely knowledgeable about vehicular mechanics.
When confronted with a post that is contrary to what a poster likes, believes, or most often wants to be correct, the poster will pick out only minor details that are largely irrelevant in an attempt to shut out the conflicting idea. The core of the post will be left alone since it isn't easy to contradict what the person is actually saying.
When a poster cannot properly refute a post they do not like (as described above), the poster will most likely invent fictitious counter-points and/or begin to attack the other's credibility in feeble ways that are dramatic but irrelevant. Do not underestimate this tactic, as in the online world this will sway many observers. Do not forget: Correctness is decided only by what is said last, the most loudly, or with greatest repetition.
Remember: When debating online, everyone else is ALWAYS wrong if they do not agree with you!
Yes, specially since the PLX is just a PCIe switch that you could live without anyway.
But there might be latency issues.
->Chipset/CPU->Lucid chip->Processing data and distribute->GPU1+2->Rendering->Lucid chip->Combining data->GPU1->Screen.
Crunching for Comrades and the Common good of the People.
The only way I could see it working like that image is if the Hydra chip contains all the data needed to to operate all the possible graphics card options. So Lucid would either have to get AMD, nVidia, Intel, S3 etc to all submit the code to Lucid so their cards work OR have all the driver code written/customised(hacked) by Lucid and built into the chip via Firmware/BIOS updates.
It's just too pie in the sky with current Driver, OS & Manufacturer capabilities. It would take a miracle of them working together or patents/copyrights being broken for this dream to happen. For 2009 the best I can see it doing is enabling CF/SLi/whatever Intel uses/MultiChrome on any board, as long as it has a Hydra chip on it & possibly better scaling, which I have yet to see.
honestly, what percentage of the people who would use lucid, would also use cards from two manufacturers. just being able to use any ATI card combination (or nvidia if thats your company of preference) would be enough to sell me on the idea. ive wished for xfire or sli to support older and new cards at the same time, i usually spend 300$ every 2 years and the gap is too far apart for them to be compatible.
but i also wonder how the card companies can learn from this and try to take advantage of it too. all the motherboards with onboard graphics, may one day be used just like the lucid chip, to determine how to allocate resources to any graphics card combination (within their company)
read more guys. How this works is it supports any cards, as many as can fit on the mother board supposedly that are supported by the same driver, so no ATI and Nvidia until hacked drivers from where ever can do that, the "one" driver has to support the cards used together.
Supposedly, what Lucid said, it will be "near" 100% scaling, so the card you add, will add as much performance (almost) as the performance it gives by itself.
If you dont know, SLI or Xfire, DOES NOT do this, not even close.
by the way, reading some of these posts, i never remember Lucid saying anything, ever, about mix matching companies, what i said above, is what they have said many times, in the demos, so I dont know where some of you guys are getting your stuff, maybe i havent seen it yet, or maybe its rumor.
Last edited by Decami; 12-20-2008 at 10:50 PM.
This post above was delayed 90 times by Nvidia. Cause that's their thing, thats what they do.
This Announcement of the delayed post above has been brought to you by Nvidia Inc.
RIGGY
case:Antec 1200
MB: XFX Nforce 750I SLI 72D9
CPU:E8400 (1651/4x9) 3712.48
MEM:4gb Gskill DDR21000 (5-5-5-15)
GPU: NVIDIA GTX260 EVGA SSC (X2 in SLI) both 652/1403
PS:Corsair 650TX
OS: Windows 7 64-bit Ultimate
--Cooling--
5x120mm 1x200mm
Zalman 9700LED
Displays: Samsung LN32B650/Samsung 2243BWX/samsung P2350
lucid DOES NOT use SLI or Crossfire and wont enable it, it uses a CPU like chip that intersects the lanes and "re-adjusts" information accordingly.
when you think of Hydra, put SLI and Xfire out of your mind, it does not work anyway like it.
This post above was delayed 90 times by Nvidia. Cause that's their thing, thats what they do.
This Announcement of the delayed post above has been brought to you by Nvidia Inc.
RIGGY
case:Antec 1200
MB: XFX Nforce 750I SLI 72D9
CPU:E8400 (1651/4x9) 3712.48
MEM:4gb Gskill DDR21000 (5-5-5-15)
GPU: NVIDIA GTX260 EVGA SSC (X2 in SLI) both 652/1403
PS:Corsair 650TX
OS: Windows 7 64-bit Ultimate
--Cooling--
5x120mm 1x200mm
Zalman 9700LED
Displays: Samsung LN32B650/Samsung 2243BWX/samsung P2350
Yes and its old and a prototype demonstration. I can show you endless pictures of things thats been shown thats either.
A: Not ended as anything.
B: Not implemented yet or anytime soon.
And that picture is not from a smackover board...
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10021005-1.html
http://www.anandtech.com/tradeshows/showdoc.aspx?i=3379
It's all right there in my Sig. I told everyone to look into Lucid... the company, just not it's product; (Hydra Chip). Th engineers designing this thing has some serious credentials.
If this thing is for real, we might be saying bye - bye to SLI/Crossfire... perhaps that is what AMD plans to use that extra bus for... something to help the Hydra chip ...?
Guess my old X1800XTX might be worth something...?
.
Last edited by Xoulz; 12-21-2008 at 12:30 AM.
I think we are all imagining the same thing, double GPU type, one PCB or Sandwich type double PCB, double GPU with Lucid's Chip would make an awesome GPU card if Lucid's chip works as advertise so 2009 Q1 we'll see
In progress......
Metabyte was able to do image splicing.
http://www.sharkyextreme.com/hardware/metabyte_onsite/
edit - more info on "Stepsister"http://www2.sharkyextreme.com/hardwa...byte_tntsli_p/
makes me want to find a pair of Metabyte TNT cards to play with..
Last edited by STEvil; 12-21-2008 at 01:31 AM.
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