Phenom II 6 GHz+ OVERCLOCK

[PetNorth]

one simply must love those desktop simulations on the Opteron part... pfff

yeah, specially in games, with server mobo, ECC ram, I say pfff too LOL

[Chad Boga]

What stopped Intel from doing that before? Intel ALWAYS base their pricing on Clock Speed/Multi/and Cache.

I don't see i7 as part of Intel's normal range for now, so I expect all the pricing action to be on the Penryn side over the next few months.

[informal]

What NB clocks did they run on this Opteron?Also the ram in question is ECC DDR2-800,compared to 1066 on Agena and C2Q.

I've just seen the update in the German version of the article:
http://www.gamestar.de/hardware/test...nom_ii_x4.html

Update: Response to some reader questions regarding the Opteron test system:
The Geforce GTX 280 was at full PCI Express 16x-speed connections (it is in the bios on the motherboard to configure server). As DDR2 memory came-800-RAM (CL6) with error correction (ECC, mode: Basic) to use. Since the Phenom X4 II (unlike the Opteron system) to show even faster RAM modules supports, should the gaming performance yet at the same clock by a few percentage points increase.

So the ram was CL6 ECC DDR2-800.One can assume that CL4/5 DDR2-1066 ram memory would give an extra boost over the one they used.Also we don't know what NB clocks will Deneb run at.It may be the same 2.2Ghz as Shanghai parts,or it may be higher than that.All of this coupled with a few BIOS settings we don't know about(CnQ active?<CPU TWEAK ACTIVE?-those are non existent in server bios i presume) can't give us a valid picture how exactly Deneb will perform.
But even in this short and not exactly accurate simulation,Deneb shows some massive gains in UT3 and Winrar(which is VERY sensitive to memory setting on K8/K10).

[Zucker2k]

I don't see i7 as part of Intel's normal range for now, so I expect all the pricing action to be on the Penryn side over the next few months.

Are you saying for the first time in history, Intel aregoing to depart from their pricing scheme? I'm sorry, but allevidence indicates otherwise. The QX 9775 and QX 9770 are both siginificantly more expensive than i965 XE. The Q9650 price > i940, and Q9550 price > i920. WHY? Ci7 prices have no where to go but down, especially given marginal performance improvement over penryn - a drop-in upgrade.

[demonkevy666]

What NB clocks did they run on this Opteron?Also the ram in question is ECC DDR2-800,compared to 1066 on Agena and C2Q.

I've just seen the update in the German version of the article:
http://www.gamestar.de/hardware/test...nom_ii_x4.html



So the ram was CL6 ECC DDR2-800.One can assume that CL4/5 DDR2-1066 ram memory would give an extra boost over the one they used.Also we don't know what NB clocks will Deneb run at.It may be the same 2.2Ghz as Shanghai parts,or it may be higher than that.All of this coupled with a few BIOS settings we don't know about(CnQ active?<CPU TWEAK ACTIVE?-those are non existent in server bios i presume) can't give us a valid picture how exactly Deneb will perform.
But even in this short and not exactly accurate simulation,Deneb shows some massive gains in UT3 and Winrar(which is VERY sensitive to memory setting on K8/K10).

also that sever board is running on Ht 1.0.

No sever until 09 will have Ht3.0/or Hht3.1

[gallag]

What NB clocks did they run on this Opteron?Also the ram in question is ECC DDR2-800,compared to 1066 on Agena and C2Q.

I've just seen the update in the German version of the article:
http://www.gamestar.de/hardware/test...nom_ii_x4.html



So the ram was CL6 ECC DDR2-800.One can assume that CL4/5 DDR2-1066 ram memory would give an extra boost over the one they used.Also we don't know what NB clocks will Deneb run at.It may be the same 2.2Ghz as Shanghai parts,or it may be higher than that.All of this coupled with a few BIOS settings we don't know about(CnQ active?<CPU TWEAK ACTIVE?-those are non existent in server bios i presume) can't give us a valid picture how exactly Deneb will perform.
But even in this short and not exactly accurate simulation,Deneb shows some massive gains in UT3 and Winrar(which is VERY sensitive to memory setting on K8/K10).

Not really a massive gain in winrar, Is it? I would expect deneb to be better than this if not hindered by server parts.

[Chad Boga]

Are you saying for the first time in history, Intel aregoing to depart from their pricing scheme? I'm sorry, but allevidence indicates otherwise. The QX 9775 and QX 9770 are both siginificantly more expensive than i965 XE. The Q9650 price > i940, and Q9550 price > i920. WHY? Ci7 prices have no where to go but down, especially given marginal performance improvement over penryn - a drop-in upgrade.

Obviously i7 prices will go down at some point, but I don't think any downwards price movements for it will take place in December or be announced in December in response to anything from AMD.

I do think Penryn prices will be adjusted because of both AMD and i7.

[informal]

Not really a massive gain in winrar, Is it? I would expect deneb to be better than this if not hindered by server parts.

Well i told you what matters for Winrar:it's extremely sensitive to memory subsystem(if you don't believe me,check with someone else).
I can jump ten percent with my X2 only by going from cas 5 to cas4.Obviously larger L3 pays a role here,but even on a "crippled" (server) platform,that opteron shows 15% gain clock for clock over Agena which ran with uber fast ddr2 ram(non ECC too).
I can bet when AM3 version of Deneb comes out it will eat the AM2+ version of Deneb in Winrar.That's why you see Core i7 perform stellar in this test:3 channel DDR3 IMC + Turbo + HT +large L3 = massive gain.Deneb will lack turbo and HT but will have fast DDR2/DDR3 memory on it's disposal and a large chunk of L3(with lower latency than the one in Barcelona\Agena).

15% on this "desktop unfriendly" platform for a "die shrink" is a great score IMO.

[justapost]

Seems gamestart guy's had access to the shanghai server tecchannel.de used for their review.
Tecchannel also had an 2356 barcelona there for testing. I wish they had run the benchmarks with that chip for comparison.
Tecchannel said in their review they could not run ddr2-800 mode so they used ddr2-667 there. I would assume gamestar had to use the same settings so that note that they used ddr2-800 cl6 is odd.
Winrar on 9950BE looks like ganged mode, would be ~10% faster in unganged mode.

[Zucker2k]

Obviously i7 prices will go down at some point, but I don't think any downwards price movements for it will take place in December or be announced in December in response to anything from AMD.

I do think Penryn prices will be adjusted because of both AMD and i7.

YOU are treating them separate. I AM treating them as already fixed based on clock/multi/cache. So price reductions would affect all segments. Of course it won't be equal % reductions. The whole idea that Ci7 (in terms of Intel pricing schemes) is going to in another segment all by itself becasue it is a newer technology is not supported by past or present pricing schemes. It will not happen in th future either, except when penryn is declared EOL.

[Blaber]

We know that Shanghai at 2.7Ghz is rated at 75 WATTS , But does any one about wattage rating of Deneb 2.8Ghz & 3.0Ghz parts.??

Reason I am asking this question is if Deneb is rated at much higher wattage than Shanghai , then it could be due to NB running above 2.2Ghz on Deneb compared to shanghai.

Now if Deneb does have higher than 2.2Ghz NB clock , then from above review I think it will be very close between 45nm C2Q and 45nm PII , Hell it could even be faster.

[Ghostbuster]

We know that Shanghai at 2.7Ghz is rated at 75 WATTS , But does any one about wattage rating of Deneb 2.8Ghz & 3.0Ghz parts.??

Reason I am asking this question is if Deneb is rated at much higher wattage than Shanghai , then it could be due to NB running above 2.2Ghz on Deneb compared to shanghai.

That 75W is ACP rating for Shanghai. The 2.8GHz and 3GHz Denebs are rated at 125W TDP. The AM3 versions will be 95W TDP.

[Chad Boga]

YOU are treating them separate. I AM treating them as already fixed based on clock/multi/cache. So price reductions would affect all segments. Of course it won't be equal % reductions. The whole idea that Ci7 (in terms of Intel pricing schemes) is going to in another segment all by itself becasue it is a newer technology is not supported by past or present pricing schemes. It will not happen in th future either, except when penryn is declared EOL.

Intel have declared i7 to be a niche high end product for now, with more consumer friendly versions to be released in Q3 09. So in this sense, i7 is not like the introduction of Conroe or Penryn which were mainstream immediately.

Is it your contention that when Intel likely next announces pricing adjustments on the Penryn range, that i7 will be substantially altered too?

Coz I think i7's official prices probably won't change at all till Q2 09 at the earliest.

[PetNorth]

Well i told you what matters for Winrar:it's extremely sensitive to memory subsystem(if you don't believe me,check with someone else).
I can jump ten percent with my X2 only by going from cas 5 to cas4.Obviously larger L3 pays a role here,but even on a "crippled" (server) platform,that opteron shows 15% gain clock for clock over Agena which ran with uber fast ddr2 ram(non ECC too).
I can bet when AM3 version of Deneb comes out it will eat the AM2+ version of Deneb in Winrar.That's why you see Core i7 perform stellar in this test:3 channel DDR3 IMC + Turbo + HT +large L3 = massive gain.Deneb will lack turbo and HT but will have fast DDR2/DDR3 memory on it's disposal and a large chunk of L3(with lower latency than the one in Barcelona\Agena).

15% on this "desktop unfriendly" platform for a "die shrink" is a great score IMO.

Expect at least another 20% gain (to add to that 15%), going from ECC 800 CL6 to NO ECC 1066 CL5. I've done a quick run with winrar 3.80 (Phenom 9850). Five runs (average): 1226 (667 CL5); 1410 (800 CL4). Thats 15% gain.

[Zucker2k]

Intel have declared i7 to be a niche high end product for now, with more consumer friendly versions to be released in Q3 09. So in this sense, i7 is not like the introduction of Conroe or Penryn which were mainstream immediately.

Is it your contention that when Intel likely next announces pricing adjustments on the Penryn range, that i7 will be substantially altered too?

Coz I think i7's official prices probably won't change at all till Q2 09 at the earliest.

So the niche range of cpus are actually cheaper than old technology. Where is that declaration? Maybe you need to familiarize yourself with Intel's pricing scheme. Even the QX6850 is more expensive than i965XE
http://www.google.com/products?hl=en...num=4&ct=title

Q6700 (because of the 10x multi) and slightly higher clocks 2.66ghz is in the same price segment as i920 and even Q9550.

http://www.google.com/products/catal...ult#ps-sellers

Do you see any pattern here?

[informal]

Expect at least another 20% gain (to add to that 15%), going from ECC 800 CL6 to NO ECC 1066 CL5. I've done a quick run with winrar 3.80 (Phenom 9850). Five runs (average): 1226 (667 CL5); 1410 (800 CL4). Thats 15% gain.

Thanks for the numbers .
As i said,Winrar is very sensitive to memory subsystem on K10.
Deneb + fast(CL4) 1066 DDR2 ram+high(er) NB clock+much larger L3 = big gain in Winrar.

[Chad Boga]

So the niche range of cpus are actually cheaper than old technology. Where is that declaration? Maybe you need to familiarize yourself with Intel's pricing scheme. Even the QX6850 is more expensive than i965XE
http://www.google.com/products?hl=en...num=4&ct=title

Q6700 (because of the 10x multi) and slightly higher clocks 2.66ghz is in the same price segment as i920 and even Q9550.

They are products Intel has discontinued are they not?

Regardless, all that shows is that there is no pressing need for further price reductions on i7 anytime soon, but that the Penryn/Conroe generation could do with some price trimming.

http://www.google.com/products/catal...ult#ps-sellers

Do you see any pattern here?

Nope, I am happy for you to explain it to me though.

[informal]

Guys if you want to discuss intel pricing policies there is a place for that and it's not called Phenom II 6Ghz +OVERCLOCK thread. Not trying to flame or anything,just not liking the direction this thread has taken as you two started to argue whether core i7 and penryn will drop in price...

[Chad Boga]

Guys if you want to discuss intel pricing policies there is a place for that and it's not called Phenom II 6Ghz +OVERCLOCK thread. Not trying to flame or anything,just not liking the direction this thread has taken as you two started to argue whether core i7 and penryn will drop in price...

Yeah I was wondering what the best way to address discussing this issue is, but not sure if it is worthy of a new thread and wasn't sure how long we might go on for.

[Zucker2k]

What!!!!? You see no connection between PII hitting 6Ghz and Intel pricing?

[charged3800z24]

here is my run of 3.2ghz stock NB stock HT and 1066 5-5-5-15 2x1GB ram..
I noticed frequency doesn't push my multi threaded RAR score much at all...
NB OC'ing helps more..

[Titan7171]

Wow, Intel needed to tell us that the 6ghz overclock by AMD was not what we should expect from these cpu's in a real world environment?.........they really care about us.......Thanks for the info Intel

[chew*]

Wow, Intel needed to tell us that the 6ghz overclock by AMD was not what we should expect from these cpu's in a real world environment?.........they really care about us.......Thanks for the info Intel

That depends on how much DI you have at your disposal I bet I could run all week long If i could keep myself awake to keep the pot filled.
cascade or phase anyone? mine ran for a good year before i got bored......

[Kayin]

"not a real world environment?"

You know, I used to have snow drifts in my living room while benching in Ohio. You can't put it past some of us.

[G0ldBr1ck]

"not a real world environment?"

You know, I used to have snow drifts in my living room while benching in Ohio. You can't put it past some of us.

wonder what evidence Intel has that AMD used a "tricked" chip.......if they end up wrong about that they are gonna look desperate doing theres.