Deneb vs Agena..feel Free to "speculate"

[Chad Boga]

You should look at the numerous troll accounts he made- until I think somebody put an IP ban in place.

What on earth are you talking about?

[Chad Boga]

Haha, evey site needs a Ghost.

So our Chad Boga would be "someguy" and "mundus" would he?

Who said that we don't need capital punishment?

One doesn't need an account to witness the clueless, so no.

[m411b]

roofsniper, Nehalem IS coming out for server chips, 2nd Half of 09. With intel, and considering Nehalem is already shipping for desktop, that will mean early 2nd half, and they could easily pull it in if Shanghai is quite good.
AMD has about 2quarters advantage in the server market before they will face some extremely stiff competition(not that Intel is already the better choice in most regards for 1P and 2P servers, AMD still wins 4P though)

Also, of course Deneb/Shanghai will be more expensive than the older ones. Why they hell would they sell it cheaper than their older slower CPUs? That would completely osbourne massive amounts of stock and be an extemely stupid move.

As for pricing....
669 for top end X58 mobo here(450 for cheapest), and top end FX board is 393 , 9950 here is 381. So while the Corei7 is much more expensive it isnt even close to being a X58 board = 790FX+CPU+Ram.
Remember prices vary dramatically across countries depending on cross currency conversions and which cpu/gfx/mobo maker dominates a local market. Eg Nvidia is always way cheaper in NZ. The ATI cards just don't get the volume to compete on price or be cheaper than the equivalent Nvidia card like in the US.

Personally while I think Chad also has been a little harsh sometimes, some of you have also been just as immature. People could be much more polite and nicer here. I also only buy AMD ever, so don't think im some intel bigot.

Well actually, this JetWay HA04-Extreme($93.75), AMD Phenom 9950 ($184.99), and this G.SKILL 2GB (2 x 1GB) DDR2 800($34.99) = $313.37 USD = $486.9 AUD. Thats $36 AUD more than your cheapest X58 board right? So you are telling me that you can get a Nehalem chip and DDR3 RAM for $36 AUD?

[roofsniper]

roofsniper, Nehalem IS coming out for server chips, 2nd Half of 09.

i know i was referring to this post below saying that nehalem could compete with shanghai's sales this quarter. nehalem isn't coming out for another year tho so theres no way that nehalem can hurt shanghai's sales now.

So you don't think Nehalem's release will offset that?

[Chad Boga]

i know i was referring to this post below saying that nehalem could compete with shanghai's sales this quarter. nehalem isn't coming out for another year tho so theres no way that nehalem can hurt shanghai's sales now.

I think that will be for 4 socket boards(or is that 2 socket and 4 socket)?

Still aren't some server sales just 1 socket?

[Gener_AL (UK)]

As for pricing....
669 for top end X58 mobo here(450 for cheapest), and top end FX board is 393 , 9950 here is 381. So while the Corei7 is much more expensive it isnt even close to being a X58 board = 790FX+CPU+Ram.

Oh really ? Regarding UK prices.

DFI Lanparty DK 790FX-M2RS, AMD 790FX, S AM2+, PCI-E 2.0(x16), DDR2 667/800, SATA II, SATA RAID, ATX £69.99 £82.24

2GB (2x1GB) Corsair TwinX XMS2, DDR2 PC2-6400 (800), 240 Pins, Non-ECC Unbuffered, CAS 5-5-5-18 £19.89 £23.37

AMD Phenom™ 9950 Black Edition, Socket AM2+, 2.6GHz, 4MB Cache, 125W, Retail £119.97 £140.96

total i make that around £247 (for standard 2gb ram system)


Now a Few X58

Asus P6T Deluxe Intel X58 (Socket 1366) PCI-Express DDR3 Motherboard
Core i7 1366 Support, 6400MHz FSB, Triple Channel DDR3 Support, 6x SATA, RAID, 8x USB2.0, FireWire, Dual Gigabit LAN.

£239.99
(£281.99)

Intel SmackOver Intel X58 (Socket 1366) PCI-Express DDR3 Motherboard
Core i7 1366 Support, 6400MHz FSB, Triple Channel DDR3 Support, 6x SATA, RAID, Dual Gigabit LAN.

Pre-order
£199.99
(£234.99)

MSI Eclipse SLI Intel X58 (Socket 1366) PCI-Express DDR3 Motherboard Core i7 1366 Support, 6400MHz FSB, Triple Channel DDR3 Support, 6x SATA, RAID, Dual Gigabit LAN.

Asus P6T Deluxe "OC Palm Edition" Intel X58 (Socket 1366) PCI-Express DDR3 Motherboard
Core i7 1366 Support, 6400MHz FSB, Triple Channel DDR3 Support, 6x SATA, RAID, Dual Gigabit LAN, Supplied with OC Palm.

£269.99
(£317.24)

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Is that enough proof ?

[roofsniper]

I think that will be for 4 socket boards(or is that 2 socket and 4 socket)?

Still aren't some server sales just 1 socket?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_N...ture)#Variants hope this helps. nearest server i see is q1 2009.

[Chad Boga]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_N...ture)#Variants hope this helps. nearest server i see is q1 2009.

Thanks a lot.

So we will have Nehalem 2 socket in Q1 2009 and 4 socket in either Q3 or Q4 2009, assuming no schedule slippage.

[EvilBlitz]

m411b and Gener_AL did you read my post correctly? Prices are NOT directly comparable across countries. I know that you Brits get ripped off compared to the yanks as well Gener_AL.
m411b. Gener_AL made the comment that x58 mobo alone is a 9950 +790FX+RAM, I didnt say anything about x58+CPU+RAM = 790FX+CPU+Ram, that would be rediculous.
Also I took the MOST expensive AMD and intel mobos, to be apples to apples. If you are going to pick cheaper motherboards and not the most expensive option of both then its not a valid comparison(esp since all the X58 are higher end mobos). Im be quite suprised Jetway being the most expensive option, not so suprised with DFI(however DFI is cheaper than Asus and Abit here.)
If I choose cheaper models, thats only 448 for a x58 board.
We only have 1 790FX available with a sb750 update. Thats the one I mentioned for 393, and theres no way youll get a 9950 and Ram here for $60.
If I get the cheapest FX available, the Gigabyte DS4 thats 214, and the cheapest 9950 is still 380, so thats still over the cost of a X58 without RAM.
Yes our hardware prices suck, but I bet we arent the only with this situation.

Shangai has only just started shipping. They wont even be selling for the full Q408. They already lose in 1P and 2P and thats coming out NEXT quarter for Nehalem, so they have a 2-3month window there. Thats stuff all. You don't think that people who spend fortunes on servers wouldn't wait another couple of months if they knew a much better option was coming very soon?
Then your own link, says what I just said before. 4P Nehalem in H209.
This IS intel we are talking about. I said if Shanghai is good, you watch, intel will pull out all the stops to get 4P in early. So that could only be 7months.
Never ever underestimate your enemy. intel has become alot more aggresive since AMD whopped their ass with the original Athlon.
I love my AMD, but it really is David vs Goliath in terms of resources.

[EvilBlitz]

http://it.anandtech.com/IT/showdoc.aspx?i=3456

Small Shanghai dbase review up. Performance per watt is excellent.

Small Dunnington review there as well.

[Gener_AL (UK)]

@EvilBlitz I was only making the comparison because it is applicable here and like you say prices with hardware do vary across the globe and for an extra +-£40 more you can get the ASUS or DFI or Gbyte 790FX (750b) here.
So my original statement remains valid regarding the state of play in the UK.

The shanghai link you posted looks promising for AMD and it will be interesting to see how this translates to deneb.

AM3 looks to be AMD strongest hand yet to play. Ever since Intel really pushed ahead with Fab process to where they are today with 45nm AMD have been playing catch up on that respect. That imo has made all the difference.

Anyway all i know, really, is that deneb cant come soon enough !!!!!!!!

[Aussie FX]

m411b and Gener_AL did you read my post correctly? Prices are NOT directly comparable across countries.

You're not wrong there, someone said to me the other day that it's cheaper to fly to the U.S have a few days break go out and buy Adobes (CSS?) suite and fly back to Australia and it would still be cheaper than buying the software here.

Maybe you should do the same thing and come to Melbourne/Sydney for a few days shopping judging by the prices you're quoting.

[Aussie FX]

It seems that AMD have solved the leakage problems that have plagued 65nm. Leakage in Shanghai is 1/3 of Barcelona. :clap
It would be nice to see some FO4 numbers. IIRC Barcelona is low 23's and Power 6 is ~14 for comparison.
Hopefully this will translate to being mad o'cers.


The transistor drive current for AMD's 45-nm devices is much lower than that of the Intel HKMG transistors. But power consumption is quickly becoming a high priority for server chips. AMD's transistors exhibit very low channel leakage. Our transistor benchmarks indicates that leakage current is less than one-third of the value measured on AMD's 65-nm process. It's also significantly lower than the Intel 45-nm HKMG process. In fact the Ion/Ioff ratio for AMD's PFET is nearly 10 times better than that for the Intel PFET.

http://www.eetimes.com/news/latest/s...2002243&pgno=1

[demonkevy666]

It seems that AMD have solved the leakage problems that have plagued 65nm. Leakage in Shanghai is 1/3 of Barcelona. :clap
It would be nice to see some FO4 numbers. IIRC Barcelona is low 23's and Power 6 is ~14 for comparison.
Hopefully this will translate to being mad o'cers.


The transistor drive current for AMD's 45-nm devices is much lower than that of the Intel HKMG transistors. But power consumption is quickly becoming a high priority for server chips. AMD's transistors exhibit very low channel leakage. Our transistor benchmarks indicates that leakage current is less than one-third of the value measured on AMD's 65-nm process. It's also significantly lower than the Intel 45-nm HKMG process. In fact the Ion/Ioff ratio for AMD's PFET is nearly 10 times better than that for the Intel PFET.

http://www.eetimes.com/news/latest/s...2002243&pgno=1

O_O %&**%&E%^!!!!

shanghai performance is very close to haper town (which is a penryn like core but isn't optimized like core 2 duo/quad is for games. I've seen a few benches where haper town was slightly slower then a penryn 1-2%)

Barcelona was low then Agena slightly too
I think Deneb has a very good chance of competitive with penryn.
especially if we can clock up to 4.0-4.3ghz)

on side noted If two shanghai cores where able to work in the L1N64 asus board and clock to about 4.3ghz both on air and using 4 280 GTX, (one for phyX, the other for TRI SLI) it set a WR for 1and two would bethe only way to get above nehalem.

[ryboto]

O_O %&**%&E%^!!!!

shanghai performance is very close to haper town (which is a penryn like core but isn't optimized like core 2 duo/quad is for games. I've seen a few benches where haper town was slightly slower then a penryn 1-2%)

Core 2 is optimized for games? If they both use the same core, there shouldn't be any difference.

[demonkevy666]

Core 2 is optimized for games? If they both use the same core, there shouldn't be any difference.

not sure

FB dimms and a few other reason.

anywys shanghai turned out to be really 10-15% faster then Barcelona at the same clock. (read the news in google lol)

[Rammsteiner]

Oh really ? Regarding UK prices.

DFI Lanparty DK 790FX-M2RS, AMD 790FX, S AM2+, PCI-E 2.0(x16), DDR2 667/800, SATA II, SATA RAID, ATX £69.99 £82.24

2GB (2x1GB) Corsair TwinX XMS2, DDR2 PC2-6400 (800), 240 Pins, Non-ECC Unbuffered, CAS 5-5-5-18 £19.89 £23.37

AMD Phenom™ 9950 Black Edition, Socket AM2+, 2.6GHz, 4MB Cache, 125W, Retail £119.97 £140.96

total i make that around £247 (for standard 2gb ram system)


Now a Few X58

Asus P6T Deluxe Intel X58 (Socket 1366) PCI-Express DDR3 Motherboard
Core i7 1366 Support, 6400MHz FSB, Triple Channel DDR3 Support, 6x SATA, RAID, 8x USB2.0, FireWire, Dual Gigabit LAN.

£239.99
(£281.99)

Intel SmackOver Intel X58 (Socket 1366) PCI-Express DDR3 Motherboard
Core i7 1366 Support, 6400MHz FSB, Triple Channel DDR3 Support, 6x SATA, RAID, Dual Gigabit LAN.

Pre-order
£199.99
(£234.99)

MSI Eclipse SLI Intel X58 (Socket 1366) PCI-Express DDR3 Motherboard Core i7 1366 Support, 6400MHz FSB, Triple Channel DDR3 Support, 6x SATA, RAID, Dual Gigabit LAN.

Asus P6T Deluxe "OC Palm Edition" Intel X58 (Socket 1366) PCI-Express DDR3 Motherboard
Core i7 1366 Support, 6400MHz FSB, Triple Channel DDR3 Support, 6x SATA, RAID, Dual Gigabit LAN, Supplied with OC Palm.

£269.99
(£317.24)

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Is that enough proof ?

Oh silly you

Doesnt your might X58 platform need some RAM maybe? Just curious Also, that CPU is overpriced. We pay that amount in Euro's for the 125W version of it. Also Corsair RAM ain't the RAM for a cheap system generally. SO I think it ain't a lot of very good proof.

X58 platform is a lot more expensive, especially when you start geting enthusiast parts (for both AM2 and 1366).

Asus Rampage II Extreme, 340 Euro
Core i7 920, 282 Euro
3x 2GB DDR1600 tCL8, all over the board ~300 Euro

DFI Lanparty DK 790FXB-M2RS, 120 Euro
Phenom X4 9950BE 125W, 150 Euro
4x 1GB DDR1066+ Transcend Axe RAM, 220 Euro (although not available anymore, but this was one of the very best DDR2 kits you could wish for).

Now we could pick 4GB of cheap RAM, and actually you will land just before the 340 Euro of that Asus board, other wise it's unsignificantly close. I ordered it anyway, but dont come and say X58 'ain't that expensive', because it actually is. Of course we can go sneak for cheapest X58 board, but you'll lose then because there are a lot of cheap good 790FX/GX/SB750 boards as well, for as low as 80 Euro I think I saw it one month ago.

[Chris_redfield]

I recently did a build for myself using a 9850, the build was mainly for Photshop and 3D studio Max.

Now, for photoshop and gaming the CPU is fine, but I'm a little dissapointed with it because it will only OC to 2.9GHz and I am learning how to use 3D studio maxx and the system can struggle quite severly especially when playing around with havok and there are more than a few items. Would I benefit from sticking with the M2RSH motherboard and putting in a Deneb OR is it worth going with a Shanghai opteron (or two?) I know the second option is a lot more money but I really want the best performance here.

Also, I take it the six and eight core opterons probably wont fit in the current socket F motherboards when they arrive in the future?

TBH I'm in a massive toss up, after christmas I'm either going to go Deneb, Shanghai or Nehelam. I just need someone to help me figure out which CPU would be best for my use.

[charged3800z24]

WHAT?
lol i don't even know who is better on the desktop side. i will always have amd no matter who is leading so i like to think amd is better.

I run only AMD as well , except my work laptop that Is Intel...I do not do mission critical stuff and AMD is close enough to not matter.

Techreport is finishing up there Shanghai results and should have them up soon. I don't know if there will be any Deneb review or not.

[charged3800z24]

I see this thread has taken a lil slide in off-ville...I just wanted everyone to notice that several sites have shown the new Opterons have higher NB speeds (2200mhz) not all models do. So I take it the 45nm Phenoms will follow suite. I just wanted to point that out if no one noticed yet....

AnandTech

techreport

[YukonTrooper]

TBH I'm in a massive toss up, after christmas I'm either going to go Deneb, Shanghai or Nehelam. I just need someone to help me figure out which CPU would be best for my use.

You need to wait until Deneb and Shanghai are released. Before then, no one can give you any sound advice.

[Particle]

I recently did a build for myself using a 9850, the build was mainly for Photshop and 3D studio Max.

Now, for photoshop and gaming the CPU is fine, but I'm a little dissapointed with it because it will only OC to 2.9GHz and I am learning how to use 3D studio maxx and the system can struggle quite severly especially when playing around with havok and there are more than a few items. Would I benefit from sticking with the M2RSH motherboard and putting in a Deneb OR is it worth going with a Shanghai opteron (or two?) I know the second option is a lot more money but I really want the best performance here.

Also, I take it the six and eight core opterons probably wont fit in the current socket F motherboards when they arrive in the future?

TBH I'm in a massive toss up, after christmas I'm either going to go Deneb, Shanghai or Nehelam. I just need someone to help me figure out which CPU would be best for my use.

How well-threaded is 3DS? I know a lot of those apps can surprise you with how weakly threaded they still are. AutoCAD for instance didn't have a multithreaded renderer until just this year.

If it is well threaded, it won't cost you an arm and a leg to go dual Socket F. I'm putting together an entire dual Socket F system right now for under $1100. Since you already have a case, power supply, hard drives, etc you could get away with sub-grand easily. Two 2.0GHz 65nm quads will only run you $500. Tack on as much RAM as you want and get a budget dualie board (like that $60 on Newegg right now [must be flashed before using quads]), and you've got yourself a nice little workstation...if your apps are well-threaded and hungry.