Core i7 LAUNCH CONFIRMED: 11/16

[Sr7]

See Dr Who, that's the whole problem... general purpose processors (GPP) are just too slow to adapt. Who cares about DVD playback *now*. It's 2008, let's do some Hi-Def blu-ray decoding !! Can your GPP handle that without a GFX card to help? Must we wait for a new series of instructions to get added to an already huge instruction set?

The solution is simple... tell your superiors to start releasing some chips with some efficient reconfigurable logic!! 4 cores + a good chuck of reconfigurable logic that can be dynamically configured on the fly using software for *ANY* task. How long will this take?, I'm waiting Let us make our own instructions

The concept of configurable logic defeats the purpose, because the logic needs to be literally laid out with transistors, physically. That means you decide on a spec and it's set in stone. You can't dynamically lay out transistors.

[lm358]

The concept of configurable logic defeats the purpose, because the logic needs to be literally laid out with transistors, physically. That means you decide on a spec and it's set in stone. You can't dynamically lay out transistors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fpga

Essentially, yes, you can create anything you want in hardware -- including full 32-bit microprocessors. Obviously it's not as fine tuned as creating custom fixed-function silicon, but in many cases it doesn't need to be.

[Slovnaft]

The concept of configurable logic defeats the purpose, because the logic needs to be literally laid out with transistors, physically. That means you decide on a spec and it's set in stone. You can't dynamically lay out transistors.

well in theory (like fantasizing kind of theory) couldn't modular magnetic fields like those found in Spin Glass could be used to create dynamic logic structures?

[lm358]

Anyway, you can quote me now, software programmable logic is the future!
GPGPU is just moving toward it, slowly, from a different angle...

[Blauhung]

See Dr Who, that's the whole problem... general purpose processors (GPP) are just too slow to adapt. Who cares about DVD playback *now*. It's 2008, let's do some Hi-Def blu-ray decoding !! Can your GPP handle that without a GFX card to help? Must we wait for a new series of instructions to get added to an already huge instruction set?

The solution is simple... tell your superiors to start releasing some chips with some efficient reconfigurable logic!! 4 cores + a good chuck of reconfigurable logic that can be dynamically configured on the fly using software for *ANY* task. How long will this take?, I'm waiting Let us make our own instructions

That's sorta the road things will be going. Larrabee is the first step down this path. With software based rendering, improvements can be made at the software level, while general x86 based cores (although they are very wide) take care of the crunching.

Next year (or later depending on larrabee) Intel will have 3 variaties of CPU core out.
- Large out of ordervery general purpose and very branched Nehalem based cores.
- Small in order general purpose low power Bonnell (silverthorne) based cores
- Small in order very wide but somewhat less general purpose Larrabee based cores

In the future (sandy bridge type stuff) we can use the fact that all our cores are very modular (along with the memory controller, PCIe, QPI) to make up different classes of processor. I could see a chip having some combination of all 3 being awesome. 1 or 2 Bonnell cores to run all the low end software (web/word processing), a few Nehalem cores to tackle the big stuff when it's needed, and Larrabee cores tossed in to take on games and other things that are easily accelerated through massive threading. All of these being able to dynamically scale their clock speeds and power usage based on demand by applications.

The concept of configurable logic defeats the purpose, because the logic needs to be literally laid out with transistors, physically. That means you decide on a spec and it's set in stone. You can't dynamically lay out transistors.

well you can, but FPGA's are slow inefficient and would be HUGE on the order of #'s of transistors that are needed to run with the current CPUs.

[lm358]

well you can, but FPGA's are slow inefficient and would be HUGE on the order of #'s of transistors that are needed to run with the current CPUs.

You don't configure a FPGA as a CPU so why compare them?

How many cycles will it take your CPU to do this, for instance:

( (x1 - y1)^2 + (x2 - y2)^2 ) ^ 0.5

Let's say 50 cycles at 2 GHz..

Now let's say the FPGA is only 200 MHz, but can do the entire calculation in 1 cycle.

CPU : 25 ns
FPGA : 5 ns

FPGA already 4 times faster. But wait, why just make one execution unit on our FPGA? We have plently of space for 10 more.. let's do 10 calculations every cycle!

Of course oversimplification, but it will be very powerful for the up and coming smart guys that can harness it I'm sure. More interesting than Larabee to me

[Drwho?]

You don't configure a FPGA as a CPU so why compare them?

How many cycles will it take your CPU to do this, for instance:

( (x1 - y1)^2 + (x2 - y2)^2 ) ^ 0.5

Let's say 50 cycles at 2 GHz..

Now let's say the FPGA is only 200 MHz, but can do the entire calculation in 1 cycle.

CPU : 25 ns
FPGA : 5 ns

FPGA already 4 times faster. But wait, why just make one execution unit on our FPGA? We have plently of space for 10 more.. let's do 10 calculations every cycle!

Of course oversimplification, but it will be very powerful for the up and coming smart guys that can harness it I'm sure. More interesting than Larabee to me

well, I wish it was that easy ...
you just forgot about branching ... data shuffling ... and many other gadget
Not every program do crunch without branching ...

as you can see here, it is not always obvious to port a program to GPU and beat the CPU. (and trust me , those guys are smart)

[Kondik]

I found on our PC Review page tha the laung has been moved to 11/3/2008 because everything is finished, can someone confirm it ?

[Slovnaft]

hahah, no one's going to confirm anything

[gOJDO]

We'll confirm it on the 3rd of Novmeber.

[Xoulz]

I don 't know if you remember, with the Pentium II, if you wanted to play DVD, you needed a Special MPEG2 card ... many people were saying that you need only a low Pentium II and this card, and you had a good PC.
Now, DVD play back takes 5% of a Core 2 Quad ... The generic processor always catch up with custome pipe line, it is just a matter of time, and you keep the Legacy
See my point now?

But does it run on the X86 code, or an added extension of MMX ..?

I don't agree with your "Legacy" argument simply because today we don't have just a faster version of the 486. The CPU has grown outside the X86 instruction set.

Are you saying any Processor that had/has an FPU is "legacy"..?


I can see you using the mantra of "legacy" in some retorts, but your definition seems to be entirely based on software such as MS-DOS for validation. Must I remind you that Motorola based Macs could run MS-DOS in emulation? It has evolved so much that the 286/386/486 architecture is barley seen within the CPU anymore. There is more RISC/CISC features in the i7 than ever... One might argue the "legacy" is Microsoft.

X64 is the future... everything else will be emulation. Like someone else suggested... Who cares if it boots up MD-DOS, as long as it can use it. So that goes more back to software legacy than it does anything else.

Anyways, since you've never defined what your definition of "legacy" is and it has somehow has become the "understood you" of this thread, I thought I'd interject some objectivity into this thread.

i7 + Win7 = iWin14

Software must now expand out instead of up wards. Speed is one thing, quickness is another. Coders are the new frontier-men!




.

[Drwho?]

here is the beginning of the nightmare ....
http://kb.adobe.com/selfservice/view...nalId=kb404898

If you experience odd redrawing, lines or garbage pixels (artifacts) in your images, errors, crashes, or if Photoshop closes without an error, then verify you have the most recent driver for your display card installed. Display card manufacturers update many of their drivers frequently to keep up with new operating system and program features.

it is going to break in every direction possible, from Generation to generation ... and it is starting already.

Legacy is the Key!

[Sr7]

here is the beginning of the nightmare ....
http://kb.adobe.com/selfservice/view...nalId=kb404898


it is going to break in every direction possible, from Generation to generation ... and it is starting already.

Legacy is the Key!

lol nice try. This is for people who try to run on 1.5 year old drivers that shipped with Vista, who never installed drivers.

It's not like it will continue to have problems or would regress.. you need to be at a certain driver version or higher.

Legacy? I guess cause photoshop feels so organic and friendly on a CPU alone?

Below is a list of the Photoshop CS4 and Bridge CS4 features that are accelerated by a GPU. To read more about these features, see "GPU accelerated features in Photoshop and Bridge CS4" (TechNote kb405745).

OpenGL/GPU features in Adobe Photoshop CS4 are:

* Smooth Display at ALL Zoom Levels
* Animated Zoom Tool
* Animated Transitions when doing a One Stop Zoom
* Hand Toss Image
* Birdseye View
* Rotate Canvas
* Smooth Display of Non Square Pixel Images
* Pixel Grid
* Move Color Matching to the GPU
* Draw Brush Tip Editing Feedback via GPU
* 3D GPU features include:
o 3D Acceleration
o 3D Axis
o 3D Lights Widget
o Accelerated 3D Interaction via Direct To Screen

GPU features in Bridge CS4 are:

* Preview Panel
* Full-screen preview
* Carousel-style View

Honestly, how many more years until this "legacy" catches up here?

[Drwho?]

Honestly, how many more years until this "legacy" catches up here?

Do a test, take Badaboom . convert a DVD to iphone format ... then, when you can, take main concept H264 encoder and run it on core i7, and do the same conversion ...

Surprise!


Legacy is surprising, isn't it? You like benchmark? do the test!

[Drwho?]

i forgot! BADABOOOOOM!

[Vozer]

i forgot! BADABOOOOOM!

That's NVIDIA's real "Big Bang II", you know.

[Drwho?]

That's NVIDIA's real "Big Bang II", you know.

let s see what happen if somebody does the test

[Movieman]

I'm going to take this topic back to where it should be.
The launch and what people want to know before they spend their money.
Even with a NDA one can give a general impression and not anger the powers that be.
It's a thoroughbred and like one it's a little finicky but inside is the heart of a champion.
For pure computational power it will knock the socks off of anything thats out there and thats no BS.
How much computational power does it have?
I have a dual harpertown here running on a SM X7DWA-N MB with the best memory money can buy and the best chips I've ever seen in it..
X5470's running at 3758 on stock 1.225v..
Ask me which machine, the Bloomfield 4 core or the Harpertown 8 core has more power and I'd be hard pressed to pick one over the other.
Yea, it is THAT strong a platform.

[T_Flight]

Core i7 2.93 SOLD!

Now the next bit is when and how much.

I have a suspicion on when but will keep that to myself as I'm basing that off of info that was leaked and later pulled. We'll see. I'm really hoping it's available soon becasue either way I have to build a new rig and have it done before years end. That includes testing, time to check everything and get the system under water so I'm working with less than a month here. I also have to figure in delivery times so that doesn't leave much time left.

Either way I'm going to *have* to have a multicore rig built by then. It's come down to the Core i7 2.93 and the Q9550, so either way I have system to buy. It just depends on which one is here when the wait is over. That will be soon. We're probably talkign a couple of weeks before I buy one or the other.

[Drwho?]

Core i7 2.93 SOLD!

Now the next bit is when and how much.

I have a suspicion on when but will keep that to myself as I'm basing that off of info that was leaked and later pulled. We'll see. I'm really hoping it's available soon becasue either way I have to build a new rig and have it done before years end. That includes testing, time to check everything and get the system under water so I'm working with less than a month here. I also have to figure in delivery times so that doesn't leave much time left.

Either way I'm going to *have* to have a multicore rig built by then. It's come down to the Core i7 2.93 and the Q9550, so either way I have system to buy. It just depends on which one is here when the wait is over. That will be soon. We're probably talkign a couple of weeks before I buy one or the other.

I am not allow to speak pricing, but i can tell you that it will not be crazy, and we have enough to make everybody happy

[MomijiTMO]

Sooo the start of November is coming and I guess that means the cone of silence will be lifted so. . . .woohoo. I'm excited except for the fact that this date coincides with my CHEM3009 exam .

[Drwho?]

Sooo the start of November is coming and I guess that means the cone of silence will be lifted so. . . .woohoo. I'm excited except for the fact that this date coincides with my CHEM3009 exam .

School 1st!
because later on, with good education, you can buy any toys you want!

[MomijiTMO]

Wise words, very wise. Yup I'm going to do well so I can buy things

[Movieman]

Wise words, very wise. Yup I'm going to do well so I can buy things

Good words from him.
Back in 1969 when I got out of HS I 'knew it all"
I'd applied at a few colleges and got accepted and to some pretty good ones but like I said, I knew it all and fast cars and women were all that mattered to me.
I got married, had a kid, divorced, remarried 5 years later, had another kid and was always able to make a decent living because I knew how to speak well, my math skills were excellent and I also didn't mind working hard.
Never chased money as I could always pay my bills and didn't buy what I couldn't pay for.
Then I got to app 45 and realised that the body that had worked so hard all those years wasn't going to be with me forever.
When I was 20 they said" Tuck $20.00 a way per week in an IRA and you'll have a million at age 65 for your retirement"
You think I listened? no..
Be smart, get an education and save your money in secure accounts so it will be there when you get to my age.
That is the best advice I can give to anyone here.
Essentially : Cover your ass and start early.

[bmg]

Good words from him.
Back in 1969 when I got out of HS I 'knew it all"

Wow, you're almost as old as me.