Core i7 LAUNCH CONFIRMED: 11/16

[Sr7]

But the reality is the current cpu's do show increases over previous generations and also run cooler.
I see that myself with the Harpertowns vs the previous clovertowns.
Clovers( on good air) max in the 3150 range while the Harpers max in the close to 4000 range and with identical cooling run 15C less.
Then they also produce close to 40% more work in a given timeframe.
Cooler and more work done in the same time.
That is the advantage of the newer cpu's then add in the lesser current draw.
My clovers at 100% load at 3150 draw 420w, the Harpers at 3758 draw 320w at 100% load.
There is your "absolute gains"" in real numbers..

You're missing the point entirely:

1) more of *what* work? Speed up up twice as fast if you want. What do you expect to do with it?

2) Sure you can go all enthusiast on the problem, but this isn't what 99% of the market look at.

Well one year ago there whern't cheap 45nm quads around...

why do you insist that Ci7 has no use, the people who are buying it know what the buy, everyone else buys cheap dualcore anyway.

Heck on my main forum the regulars there hardly recommend buying quads, cause most guys dont need it. Only the guys who want to have fun and strive for benching have quadcores.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying there's no use, or dictating that no one should buy them... but I like to feel like I've paid an extra amount for some substantial, reliable, across-the-board gain, and in this case, I don't know that I would see that. I have no doubts I'd see *a* gain, I'm just a bit skeptical right now in terms of the usefulness here. We'll see.

[Drwho?]

But the reality is the current cpu's do show increases over previous generations and also run cooler.
I see that myself with the Harpertowns vs the previous clovertowns.
Clovers( on good air) max in the 3150 range while the Harpers max in the close to 4000 range and with identical cooling run 15C less.
Then they also produce close to 40% more work in a given timeframe.
Cooler and more work done in the same time.
That is the advantage of the newer cpu's then add in the lesser current draw.
My clovers at 100% load at 3150 draw 420w, the Harpers at 3758 draw 320w at 100% load.
There is your "absolute gains"" in real numbers..

Agree and I think the GTx280 has its own thermal problems ... they are on the wall too

[Movieman]

You're missing the point entirely:

1) more of *what* work? Speed up up twice as fast if you want. What do you expect to do with it?

2) Sure you can go all enthusiast on the problem, but this isn't what 99% of the market look at.



Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying there's no use, or dictating that no one should buy them... but I like to feel like I've paid an extra amount for some substantial, reliable, across-the-board gain, and in this case, I don't know that I would see that. I have no doubts I'd see *a* gain, I'm just a bit skeptical right now in terms of the usefulness here. We'll see.

My point is that for the work I do the newer processors are a vast improvement.
My work is in pure computational power, numbers crunching in Aids and cancer research and that is ALL my machines do with the exception of my "daily driver" which is a Q6600 P35 based machine.
Let's look at this in perspective:
In 2005 just 3 years ago I built a "state of the art" machine.
A dual xeon 3600/2mb/800 Irwindale based machine.
Best DP Intel board and cpu's that money could buy back then.
My current Harpertown machine does SIX TIMES the work that the Irwindale machine did while drawing the same electric and running actually cooler.
That to me is progress.

[Blauhung]

My point is that for the work I do the newer processors are a vast improvement.
My work is in pure computational power, numbers crunching in Aids and cancer research and that is ALL my machines do with the exception of my "daily driver" which is a Q6600 P35 based machine.
Let's look at this in perspective:
In 2005 just 3 years ago I built a "state of the art" machine.
A dual xeon 3600/2mb/800 Irwindale based machine.
Best DP Intel board and cpu's that money could buy back then.
My current Harpertown machine does SIX TIMES the work that the Irwindale machine did while drawing the same electric and running actually cooler.
That to me is progress.

WHY IS YOUR QUAD NOT CRUNCHING?

[Drwho?]

My point is that for the work I do the newer processors are a vast improvement.
My work is in pure computational power, numbers crunching in Aids and cancer research and that is ALL my machines do with the exception of my "daily driver" which is a Q6600 P35 based machine.
Let's look at this in perspective:
In 2005 just 3 years ago I built a "state of the art" machine.
A dual xeon 3600/2mb/800 Irwindale based machine.
Best DP Intel board and cpu's that money could buy back then.
My current Harpertown machine does SIX TIMES the work that the Irwindale machine did while drawing the same electric and running actually cooler.
That to me is progress.

while the gforce 8 series ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GeForce_8_Series) used up to 185 watts at peak , and the new Gtx 280 use 178 watts at peak (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GeForce_200_Series ) ... They are trying to find more way to increase the power, but it does crack the dice if you go higher!

[Movieman]

WHY IS YOUR QUAD NOT CRUNCHING?

It is, reread, the other machines ONLY crunch, this Quad I do use for crunching but I do post here from it and get my email also..

while the gforce 8 series ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GeForce_8_Series) used up to 185 watts at peak , and the new Gtx 280 use 178 watts at peak (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GeForce_200_Series ) ... They are trying to find more way to increase the power, but it does crack the dice if you go higher!

Sorry, your misreading me.
I'm talking CPU only not GPU.
I have no expertise or knowledge in the GPU area as what I do doesn't require high end graphics.
I actually run an old 1997 4mb STB/Virge PCI vid card in one of the Clovertowns.
The newest vid card I own is a 2005 Leadtek 7800GTX card.

[ownage]

Power consumption goes up, then with the newer generation TDP goes down but you can be sure at some point a new generation will consume more then the older generation.
Look at the power consumption of a GF5 compared to a GF8 or the power consumption between Pentium 3 and C2Q.

[Movieman]

Power consumption goes up, then with the newer generation TDP goes down but you can be sure at some point a new generation will consume more then the older generation.
Look at the power consumption of a GF5 compared to a GF8 or the power consumption between Pentium 3 and C2Q.

Factor in the computational power between those two cpu's and work done for power used gives a huge advantage to the C2Q's

[ownage]

Factor in the computational power between those two cpu's and work done for power used gives a huge advantage to the C2Q's

Yes agreed and that is why talking about power consumption is pretty much useless (for most users). You buy something because you need it. If I only want to browse on my pc I buy a simple atom. If I want to crunch I buy a quadcore.

[Drwho?]

Yes agreed and that is why talking about power consumption is pretty much useless (for most users). You buy something because you need it. If I only want to browse on my pc I buy a simple atom. If I want to crunch I buy a quadcore.

try outlook 2007 on Atom ... good luck !

[Movieman]

Yes agreed and that is why talking about power consumption is pretty much useless (for most users). You buy something because you need it. If I only want to browse on my pc I buy a simple atom. If I want to crunch I buy a quadcore.

Yea, I just built a video surveylance machine for a customer using a E7200 cpu.. Plenty of power for the situation and runs so cool that it's funny after working daily with the high end chips.

[ownage]

try outlook 2007 on Atom ... good luck !

You should have been on the Atom team man. Then maybe the M$ crap would run on Atom
At least all apps (office, Calendar, VNC etc) start and run fast when I use OS-X Leopard on my Atom 230

[squilliam]

I love how far this went off of topic.

does anyone know the Actual pricing of these new chips and how fast they are?

[Movieman]

I love how far this went off of topic.

does anyone know the Actual pricing of these new chips and how fast they are?

Work on the premise of $300 for the 2660,$550 for the 2930 and $1000 for the 3200EE and you'll be in the ballpark I'd guess.

[marmott]

The NDA end is under NDA ... , so does the release date, get use to the fact that I am not going to comments on those kind of stuffs.

ok I understand

we will see in 2 weeks what happened (but the date of the NDA end is not anymore a secret here).

[ownage]

So it basically comes down to this: ?
Sockets > Chipsets > CPU > Memory
S1160 > P55 > Nehalem > dualchannel DDR3
S1366 > X58 > Nehalem > triplechannel DDR3

[Blauhung]

So it basically comes down to this: ?
Sockets > Chipsets > CPU > Memory
S1160 > P55 > Nehalem > dualchannel DDR3
S1366 > X58 > Nehalem > triplechannel DDR3

yes

[Slovnaft]

So pardon me if this is common knowledge, but what specific tasks have been reserved for the NB at this point? PCI interface, I/O? I mean, insofar as I know there's no real reason for expecting a different chipset to OC any better or worse than another? I mean, what basis do we have for any ensuing rampant speculation on the performance of P55?

[T_Flight]

ok I understand

we will see in 2 weeks what happened (but the date of the NDA end is not anymore a secret here).

These CPu's are still under NDA, and so is the NDA lift date. Anything else you have heard from other sites is meaningless babble. No date has been confirmed yet. When it is, I can assure you that alot more will be revealed. I've seen topic after topic on these and we basically don't know very much at all.

Most of the stuff that has been posted has proven to be completely false. Most of it has come from places like Fud and the Inq. It should never have been posted here. All it has done is create confusion.

[Movieman]

These CPu's are still under NDA, and so is the NDA lift date. Anything else you have heard from other sites is meaningless babble. No date has been confirmed yet. When it is, I can assure you that alot more will be revealed. I've seen topic after topic on these and we basically don't know very much at all.

Most of the stuff that has been posted has proven to be completely false. Most of it has come from places like Fud and the Inq. It should never have been posted here. All it has done is create confusion.

yes the cpu's are under NDA as is the NDA lift date but I don't think the general info on the cpu's are all FUD.
If you sift through it all you come up with these assumptions:
1) Pretty close to the same as a top yorkie in single threaded games
2) massive increase in multithreaded apps
3) massive increase in bandwidth with the tri-channel
That's all based on what I've read and not what I've seen and to make that clear this old fool forgot to get a SATA DVDRW to load the OS with so it's not based on anything I've seen with my own eyes yet..
All my systems except this Nehalem are server boards and they still carry IDE controllers onboard. The Nehalem board doesn't..

[T_Flight]

yes the cpu's are under NDA as is the NDA lift date but I don't think the general info on the cpu's are all FUD.
If you sift through it all you come up with these assumptions:
1) Pretty close to the same as a top yorkie in single threaded games
2) massive increase in multithreaded apps
3) massive increase in bandwidth with the tri-channel
That's all based on what I've read and not what I've seen and to make that clear this old fool forgot to get a SATA DVDRW to load the OS with so it's not based on anything I've seen with my own eyes yet..
All my systems except this Nehalem are server boards and they still carry IDE controllers onboard. The Nehalem board doesn't..

Yeah I said most. That doesn;t include the ones that have limited info with ceertain screens of tests. DrWho? has also helped with alot of the Fud that's been posted.

That stuff about the memory really had me worried and it was a nonissue. I mean they put the fear of God in people and made it sound like something had gone terribly wrong with the boards or the memory subsystem. It wasn't anything but a standard for the new CPU.

I'm really on the warpath right now over those two sites. It has nothing to do with the members here. Heck, people here are trying to straighten stuff like that out.

I questuioned the title right at the beginning. It said confirmed and I looked and looked and couldnl;t find where it was confirmed. That's adding to some of this confusion. People like me really need this CPU, but if I can;t get it by year's end I absolutely must start building ona rig. That's why I;m really staying on top of this info, becasue i do prefer going with an i7, and need the date, but I might have to end up building a rig with a 775 Q9550 or something.

These false alarms are killing me slowly. heh

[Blauhung]

So pardon me if this is common knowledge, but what specific tasks have been reserved for the NB at this point? PCI interface, I/O? I mean, insofar as I know there's no real reason for expecting a different chipset to OC any better or worse than another? I mean, what basis do we have for any ensuing rampant speculation on the performance of P55?

X58 has PCIe, QPI, and DMI onboard. I believe it also does the clock splitting for the CPU. It requires a SB pared with it (ICH10) to do all the I/O

P55 is pretty much a ICH10 with an extra lane from the CPU to carry display data from the Havendale/Aburndale CPU with onboard GPU, and may also do the clock splitting. It really has nothing on it that functions like a NB other then the possible clock splitting.

[Movieman]

Yeah I said most. That doesn;t include the ones that have limited info with ceertain screens of tests. DrWho? has also helped with alot of the Fud that's been posted.

That stuff about the memory really had me worried and it was a nonissue. I mean they put the fear of God in people and made it sound like something had gone terribly wrong with the boards or the memory subsystem. It wasn't anything but a standard for the new CPU.

I'm really on the warpath right now over those two sites. It has nothing to do with the members here. Heck, people here are trying to straighten stuff like that out.

I questuioned the title right at the beginning. It said confirmed and I looked and looked and couldnl;t find where it was confirmed. That's adding to some of this confusion. People like me really need this CPU, but if I can;t get it by year's end I absolutely must start building ona rig. That's why I;m really staying on top of this info, becasue i do prefer going with an i7, and need the date, but I might have to end up building a rig with a 775 Q9550 or something.

These false alarms are killing me slowly. heh

I understand how you feel.
Look at what you plan to use this for and then weigh out all the options.
For gaming I'd do a E8500 or E8600, for general use a Q9550 makes for a hell of a system, if bandwith is a issue then look at the i7 but it's not all that simple and only you can decide based on what you plan to use the machine for.
Good luck!

[T_Flight]

I can really use this power. I mean *really* use it. All my machines fold 24/7, and that's automatic. The only time they are paused is when i really need resources, but with something like this I'd only need to pause 2 of the clients as 2 cores would be more than enough.

I run some massively powerful 3D simulation programs that run flow analysis on rocket motors. I also have some some CADD, and simulation programs that predict flightpaths that take an enormous amount of power that I can't run on my own machine yet. That's why i really need this this winter to get started with some real work. I am semi-retired, but I wanted to get some work done on one of my own projects that's been held up becasue I just don;t have the machine to run that program. I have gone to a freinds house to run it a few times, but am not gonna bother him anymore with that. I'm mainly in it for the hobby now.

I also want to do some flight simming with FSX and there isn't enough power for that program. I don't weven think i7 will allow one to max that thing out yet. Maybe not even 2 i7's.

The rest are "wants" not needs, but I do want to do some benching again. It's been a long time. I am getting into watercooling and really want the power on top of the needs I had above.

I can roll back to a q9550 if I have to, but would rather not. I know when it comes out I will kick myself, becasue once it's bought and built, there won't be another for at least 3 years if not more.

I need the Xtreme, and want the Xtreme nased on what we do know so far. I know it's only gonna get better when we se what these things can do full on Xtreme.

[lm358]

I don 't know if you remember, with the Pentium II, if you wanted to play DVD, you needed a Special MPEG2 card ... many people were saying that you need only a low Pentium II and this card, and you had a good PC.
Now, DVD play back takes 5% of a Core 2 Quad ... The generic processor always catch up with custome pipe line, it is just a matter of time, and you keep the Legacy
See my point now?

See Dr Who, that's the whole problem... general purpose processors (GPP) are just too slow to adapt. Who cares about DVD playback *now*. It's 2008, let's do some Hi-Def blu-ray decoding !! Can your GPP handle that without a GFX card to help? Must we wait for a new series of instructions to get added to an already huge instruction set?

The solution is simple... tell your superiors to start releasing some chips with some efficient reconfigurable logic!! 4 cores + a good chuck of reconfigurable logic that can be dynamically configured on the fly using software for *ANY* task. How long will this take?, I'm waiting Let us make our own instructions