Or might just mean the oppositeOriginally Posted by Blauhung
and this might just mean that there is a way to tweak it
But you're better in this HW stuff than I am...
Or might just mean the oppositeand this might just mean that there is a way to tweak it
But you're better in this HW stuff than I am...
Meh, as I've said before, I just make the things and I really have almost no insight as to how the platforms are designed. I would just like to think I have a good conceptual understanding of what's going on and what makes sense with the information that is available.Or might just mean the opposite
But you're better in this HW stuff than I am...
But to me the fact that the clock signaling is taking a pit stop on Ibex Peak means that there is clock splitting and distribution hardware on that chip just like in Tylersburg, rather then having that all moved onto the CPU. This also means that there is some signaling that may be controllable at the BIOS level. The extent of that control is still kinda unknown, but there's a chance.
But, still, don't get your hopes up too much
Main-- i7-980x @ 4.5GHZ | Asus P6X58D-E | HD5850 @ 950core 1250mem | 2x160GB intel x25-m G2's |
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The last time I heard Intel rep. saying they didn't mind that we overclock their cpus
...
I wonder if this means we will have to resort to a multiplier unlock mod. That was always fun on the Athlon XP.
Intel doesn't mind at all, as long as you don't come back for an RMA if you break themThe last time I heard Intel rep. saying they didn't mind that we overclock their cpus
Main-- i7-980x @ 4.5GHZ | Asus P6X58D-E | HD5850 @ 950core 1250mem | 2x160GB intel x25-m G2's |
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Car-- T7400 | Kontron mini-ITX board | 80GB Intel x25-m | Azunetech X-meridian for sound |
amd heads the exact same way -> soc -> very high chance of no ocing.
Exactly. Average Joe has no interest in OC'ing at all, and would be looking at price as the driving fordce behind his buying decision. They will sell millions of those CPU's, and they'll be put into all kinds of Proprietary systems. Even the home builder just looking for a every day computer is gonna flock right to them becasue they are cheap.You're contradicting yourself quite heavily there
Majority of profit comes from vast quantity of low/mid end sales correct. If they lock Lynfield/Havendale chips, Dell, HP, Joe's PC will not give a crap (i.e. 99% of the buyers). But a lot of overclockers will give a crap.
The largest profit per unit is from high end CPU's (i.e. Q, X, QX). If they can force us to buy more expensive gear when AMD has no reply... = win for them.
So it would not surprise me if they did lock down the FSB...
Serious OC'ers (which is a single star in the Galaxy that is Intel sales)will be looking at performance first, and price last. For the high end price really doesn't matter at the costs these things are at right now. It might start mattering if they get out of hand, but the high end CPU's are priced just right.
Lynfield is not even in my forecast. I'm going Bloomfield all the way, and will have that system for quite some time. By that time, the new technology that could not even be conceived of in the wildest dreams people have right now will be developed. That is a long way away.
It's two completely different markets that these CPU's are targeted for. It may OC, or it may not. It really doesn't matter for sales.
There is a very staunch critic of AMD (www.overclockers.com) which sometimes pushes to the edge, but every once and a while he makes a decent point... and one point I think fits the bill is this one:
http://www.overclockers.com/index.ph...rs&Itemid=4263
He argues that Intel is working toward putting a more definitive divide between their luxury line CPUs and the more common man/retail CPUs ... this may not be too far from the truth. The 3-channel Bloomfield parts may be the retail, 'premium' line he talks about while the more integrated and less customizable line are the Dell, HP, Gateway specials.
I do not like the idea, but looking at it from a different perspective it is easy to see why ... and it results from a desire to milk more money -- i.e. charge 200-1000 for premium, OCable CPUs, and 100-200 for non OCable CPUs ... that way, people are not tempted to purchase a low end CPU to get high end performance. .... cheesy, stinks, but it looks like it is heading that direction if Ed (oveclockers.com) is correct.
One hundred years from now It won't matter
What kind of car I drove What kind of house I lived in
How much money I had in the bank Nor what my cloths looked like.... But The world may be a little better Because, I was important In the life of a child.
-- from "Within My Power" by Forest Witcraft
if this is true i'm sticking with lga775 or AM3
this is goin to be amusing if true
Intel will just shoot themselves in the foot and AMD are moving into same tech as them with similar process will just fly past
surely they learnt from past mistakes, dont mess with overclockers
It's smart buisness. It's made them money, and they then put that money into R&D to keep the performance edge, and continually innovate new products. The good part for us is their buisness model is very smart, and shows security. Nobody has to worry whether Intel will be around.
Intel has ran their buisness very intelligently. They know you have to make money to survive, and to have the money needed for R&D. That's the thing I like most about Intel is that they have some highly intelligent people running things, and make smart moves.
They are giving each market segment what they want, and they are gonna grow and prosper. It's almost hard to believe that a Company that is such a giant could grow anymore than they already have, but the smart moves and forward thinking just keeps flowing there.
Who could ask for anything more? Each market segment has products that are tailor made for them. You sure can't get that anywhere else. They have successfully targeted every sub-market out there and fine tuned their line perfectly. Heck depending on what happens in this election I may have to bring back some of the money I have locked down offshore and get back into the market again. Things are looking up up up for this company. They have their ass wired tight.
Last edited by T_Flight; 10-16-2008 at 09:40 PM.
Well, Lynnfield is almost as big as Bloomfield, and I'm starting to think that they should have stayed with LGA775.
But noooo, let's milk. They have plenty of apologists (Ed's amongst one of them) anyway.
Well -- many arguments both ways.... taking the smart business approach as you argue, one can understand why Intel would want to direct performance orient people to premium oriented CPUs ... raise ASPs, charge what the market will accept, and get 200 or more for a low end premium vs a low end non premium...It's smart buisness. It's made them money, and they then put that money into R&D to keep the performance edge, and continually innovate new products. The good part for us is their buisness model is very smart, and shows security. Nobody has to worry whether Intel will be around.
Intel has ran their buisness very intelligently. They know you have to make money to survive, and to have the money needed for R&D. That's the thing I like most about Intel is that they have some highly intelligent people running things, and make smart moves.
However, my advice to Intel --- make the enthusiast happy.... make them feel loved, and get loved in return
Jack
One hundred years from now It won't matter
What kind of car I drove What kind of house I lived in
How much money I had in the bank Nor what my cloths looked like.... But The world may be a little better Because, I was important In the life of a child.
-- from "Within My Power" by Forest Witcraft
Well -- many arguments both ways.... taking the smart business approach as you argue, one can understand why Intel would want to direct performance orient people to premium oriented CPUs ... raise ASPs, charge what the market will accept, and get 200 or more for a low end premium vs a low end non premium...
However, my advice to Intel --- make the enthusiast happy.... make them feel loved, and get loved in return
Jack
Yeah, I'm an OC'er so I can definitely agree with you there. What bothers me is where AMD is at now. Their FX line was awesome. Those things were rockin'. They were cleaning up in the benchmarks and gaming performance was off the charts, but then...Conroe. I saw a sig quote that said "got knocked into the Intensive Care Unit." I knew that was coming. I was watching thinking "man, they better watch out with low margins and low total net worth. If Intel ever regains the performance edge it's gonna be fatal." Boy, do I wish that wouldn't have happened like it did. Instead of the 500-600 dollar enthusisast chip, we'd be looking at 3-400 dollars. We'd also be looking at the rebirth iof the FX days, hopfully at a price that would keep them in the black this time.
One thing I have noticed with Intel that's a problem are the EE's are still silly. I would love to own one, but there is no way I'm gonna pay a grand for a unlocked multi. That unlocked multi costs them nothing, and I'm not gonna pay 500 dollars for it. That is one place where marketing is poor. I *might* pay 100 dollars more for it, but cannot bring myself to pay twice as much for an unlocked multi, a special black sticker, and a fancy designation.
I seriously worry about AMD. I do not want to see anything bad happen to that company. There is one company that is gonna help absorb some of the debt and they are restructuring some, but there is still lots of debt left, and because it takes money for R&D, I don't know how they are gonna develop a competitive CPU that can cut into Intels market. It takes 10's of millions of dollars to do that, and they just don't have it. It's depressing. Intel has it locked up and that is a problem for all of us...not just OC'ers. It's great if you're an investor though.
There is good and bad on both sides.
hmmm interesting... i heard about this "overclocking lock" too.
ill check if i can find out something at IDF next week here in taipei
hehehe me2!I have a feel these 6+ GHz E8600s will stick around for a while
or notand this might just mean that there is a way to tweak it
afaik the pll inside the x58 chipset puts out a beautiful and clean signal at 100 and 133mhz, but if you feed it with 140+mhz it wont work anymore.
on x58 theres some sort of a debug/legacy option for the PLL, which, somehow, allows input clock signals of up to 220. thats how all x58 boards overclock the Bclock (FSB). for Ibex Peak this mode wont exist afaik, so unless the pll is improved somehow we will be stuck with 140Mhz clocks more or less. which is still a nice overclock for a cpu with a Bclock of 100Mhz for default, 40%... but i have a feeling those will be celeron like cpus, so if you want to push a high end cpu, you will need 1366...
im sure there might be a way around this somehow, but it wont be easy... and if the rumors about amd clocking their 45nm quads to 4ghz+ on air with an ipc improvement of 10% then they will be very competitive and steal away market share from intel for sure.
heheh, yeah i sure hope intel will rethink thisthis is goin to be amusing if true
Intel will just shoot themselves in the foot and AMD are moving into same tech as them with similar process will just fly past
surely they learnt from past mistakes, dont mess with overclockers
but im not sure intel did this on purpose... maybe they just wanted to save transistors and made the pll very simple. it only HAS to support 100-133, for most systems there wont be any need for more clock options.
then again, look at how many mainstream and high end boards get sold... and whats the main selling feature of those boards? overclocking options!
so i hope intel doesnt underestimate the necessity for overclocking... most people wont actually use it, but its a feature everybody wants, and its a feature that makes a board shine in reviews and in the community which then in return means more people see its a good board and buy it. even if they dont overclock at all...
Just want to point out that as a percentage of the customer base, overclockers are completely insignificant. I don't think Intel cares at all one way or another what such a small percentage of customers do with their chips as long as we don't send them in for RMA after frying them. I'm guessing that that was their fear initially and, along with the remarking, was the reason why they started the multiplier locking. Maybe they have found that it just doesn't happen that often. I am guessing that most OCers don't want to fry their chips and so don't go absolutely crazy with overvolting. And electromigration typically takes so long that the chip survives long enough to be replaced and discarded when it is too slow to be of much value in the current market. OTOH, if CPU tech stagnates to a point that the value of older chips don't drop much then they may start to see a more significant number of RMAs due to OCing. Maybe they wouldn't be so open about it then. If you want to OC you are probably not going to go for their budget platform anyway.
should help to reduce mainboard component cost somewhat. routing BCLK through the PCH and restricting pll oscillation to 133 with dividers for 33mhz pci and 100mhz pci-e makes shielding the input signal for qpi base clock ref almost completely unnecessary since the drive amplitude would most likely be supplied either leaving the PCH or on-die, either way Intel is solving a lot of problems for themselves as a result of third party chipset / board suppliers veering way off course with their applications of the specs, considerably benefitting their long term goals if the on-die signalling is that critical to the chips operation.
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If true its not the end of the world, Its not like the i7920 will cost a fortune. People are spoilt now a days and are crying because they cant get xtreme edition performance for $50. Its only going to be about $266 for the fastest cpu you have ever owned, How times change.
Yeah, it's a case by case basis ... but one point of gifted OCing is to squeeze value out at cheaper prices .. the enthusiast level consumer is a very small fraction of the overall market ... it is a wise investment, again in my opinion, to keep us happy rather than shut us out.
But I see what you mean, 2 or 3 years ago a low end CPU that was worth over clocking to high end performance was in the 200-300 range anyway. It was oct-nov 2005 (3 years ago) that a 4800+ X2 cost 880 bucks ... today a 5000+ can be had for 50 bucks.
Man...
One hundred years from now It won't matter
What kind of car I drove What kind of house I lived in
How much money I had in the bank Nor what my cloths looked like.... But The world may be a little better Because, I was important In the life of a child.
-- from "Within My Power" by Forest Witcraft
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