AMD Announcing Fab Spin-Off Tomorrow

[metro.cl]

It's sad that people cannot accept other opinions.
Way to go with the permanent ridiculing and ad hominem attacks...

Actually he is entitled to a fair share of skepticism, anyone else wants to speculate on that topic or provide some facts (i.e. not insults)? What will this do for AMD in the long term? It seems they may lose the ability to fine tune the process if their share in the fab goes down and the Arabs try to serve other customers, no?
On the other hand maybe the fabs will transition faster and more smoothly to new process' because of the cash infusion?
Will they switch to a kind of bulk process to serve other customers?

You can listen to the webcast on the AMD website, in it they say that the NY fab will be build to make bulk chips. About faster transition on fabs maybe but if you look at TSMC % of high end process manufacturing is quite low the main process is 90nm so i'm not 100% that for a foundry bussiness the newer process is always the best. You have to keep in mind that the number of companies that need this kind of process is quite low and this guys already got their fabs for making them.

[Shintai]

If you have the financial wherewithal, fixed costs (= fabs) is better because your marginal cost goes down with each unit you produce. If you don't, variable costs (= subcontracting) is the way to go because you only pay for what you use.

The new foundry company will be able to offer AMD's process tech to other companies. As long as ATIC's process tech is equal to or better than its competitors (TSMC). The Intel fanboys will discount this saying 'what process tech', but let's not forget that AMD made a native quad core with IMC at 65nm.

And TSMC made a 1.4billion transistor GPU on 65nm. It doesnt really say anything. Anyone can make huge CPUs and so on. Its all about being profitable while doing so.

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/stor...%7D&dist=msr_1

This one pretty much explains it. The foundry will go towards a generic mainstream process node for the customers. And AMDs CPU division will have to follow. ATIC is the boss, not AMD. AMD loses profit long term, the process node differences increases. Bonus is they can focus on value/mainstream. Do what they are good at, instead of trying to be something they cant do.

[ColonelCain]

AMD will still own a big chunk of the "new" company(44%) while maintaining equal vote right .So it's a win-win.They have no need to directly invest money in process node development as this will be a duty of a new company(Arab part particularly),while they will maintain close relationship with the co-foundry by having one new board member at AMD's board.They will do all things they have done in the past(testing designs,close relationship with guys at the fabs) without the burden of huge debt and need to invest a lot of $ in process development.Fusion and later Bulldozer will be sort of a test-chips for how well the new foundry will function.

Oh..... thank you for clarifying.

At first, I thought that this spin-off was a bad thing, due to AMD losing the close colaboration with the fabs. But I guess that this fear was unfounded. Now, I really want to see what AMD can start doing without as much debt.

[Helmore]

And TSMC made a 1.4billion transistor GPU on 65nm. It doesnt really say anything. Anyone can make huge CPUs and so on. Its all about being profitable while doing so.

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/stor...%7D&dist=msr_1

This one pretty much explains it. The foundry will go towards a generic mainstream process node for the customers. And AMDs CPU division will have to follow. ATIC is the boss, not AMD. AMD loses profit long term, the process node differences increases. Bonus is they can focus on value/mainstream. Do what they are good at, instead of trying to be something they cant do.

Where is it stated that AMD will have to transition (back) to bulk? As far as I know the coming fabs will be doing both bulk as well as SOI at the same time, this way they will be able to satisfy a wider market.

[v_rr]

ATIC is the boss, not AMD.

ATIC have the same powers as AMD in the board. End of story.
It´s silly keep pushing the same buton over again.

NY fab will have bulk. The 2 fabs in Germany will work on SOI.
AMD wins 1 more fab to produce, because right now Fab30 is stoped because there is no money to upgrade it.

[eric66]

It's sad that people cannot accept other opinions.
Way to go with the permanent ridiculing and ad hominem attacks...

Actually he is entitled to a fair share of skepticism, anyone else wants to speculate on that topic or provide some facts (i.e. not insults)? What will this do for AMD in the long term? It seems they may lose the ability to fine tune the process if their share in the fab goes down and the Arabs try to serve other customers, no?
On the other hand maybe the fabs will transition faster and more smoothly to new process' because of the cash infusion?
Will they switch to a kind of bulk process to serve other customers?

hmm so you don't know shintai

summary :

Upon closing, The Foundry Company will:

* Have a total enterprise value of $5.0 billion, consisting of AMD's contribution of manufacturing assets and intellectual property (including its fabrication facilities in Dresden), intellectual capital and employees valued together at $2.4 billion; ATIC's contribution of $1.4 billion in new capital; and $1.2 billion of debt assumed by The Foundry Company from AMD;
* Be consolidated with AMD for purposes of financial reporting;
* Have a board of directors whose membership is equally divided between representatives of AMD and ATIC;
* Have only AMD and ATIC as stockholders, each of which at the closing will have equal voting rights;
* Be owned 44.4 percent by AMD and 55.6 percent by ATIC on a fully converted to common basis. ATIC’s economic ownership will increase over time based on the differences in securities held by AMD and ATIC, and depending on whether AMD elects to invest proportionately with ATIC in future capital infusions to support The Foundry Company’s growth;
* Have its principal headquarters in Silicon Valley, and its research and development and manufacturing leadership teams and ecosystems in New York, Dresden, and Austin;
* Have an exclusive supply agreement with limited exceptions to manufacture AMD processors and to manufacture, where competitive, certain percentages of other AMD semiconductor products;
* Begin construction of the Fab 4X manufacturing facility in New York in the middle of 2009, directly employing more than 1,400 workers in Upstate New York when the facility is in full operation;
* Expect to increase capacity through completing the 300mm conversion of a second state-of-the-art facility in Dresden in 2009;
* Join the IBM technology development alliance for both SOI and bulk silicon technology, greatly expanding the addressable market of The Foundry Company;
* After the upgrade and expansion in Dresden and the build-out of the New York facility, The Foundry Company envisions expanding its global manufacturing footprint over time, if commercially justified, to also include new fabrication facilities in Abu Dhabi; and
* Announce its permanent corporate name and identity.



Upon closing, AMD will:

* Have equal voting rights with ATIC in The Foundry Company;
* Own 44.4 percent of The Foundry Company on a fully converted to common basis;
* Improve its liquidity through The Foundry Company’s assumption of approximately $1.2 billion of AMD’s debt, ATIC’s $700 million payment to AMD for ownership interests in The Foundry Company and Mubadala’s purchase for $314 million of 58 million newly issued AMD shares and warrants for 30 million additional shares;
* Tightly focus on the design and development of the next generation of innovation based on the fusion of computing and graphics processing;
* Elect a Mubadala designee as a member of its board of directors;
* Excluding its consolidation of The Foundry Company for financial reporting purposes, improve its net cash position by $2.1 billion, through The Foundry Company’s assumption of approximately $1.1 billion in debt (net of approximately $100 million cash transferred by AMD to The Foundry Company) and cash payments from ATIC and Mubadala aggregating $1.0 billion;
* Have the option, but not any requirement, to provide additional capital funding to The Foundry Company in response to future capital calls; and
* Have an exclusive supply agreement with The Foundry Company, with limited exceptions, to manufacture AMD processors and to manufacture, where competitive, certain percentages of other AMD semiconductor products.

Upon closing, ATIC will:

* Have equal voting rights with AMD in The Foundry Company;
* Own 55.6 percent of The Foundry Company on a fully converted to common basis;
* Invest an initial $2.1 billion, of which $1.4 billion will be invested directly in the new company and $700 million will be paid directly to AMD;
* Commit a minimum of $3.6 billion and up to $6.0 billion in additional funds over the next five years for the upgrade and expansion of fabrication facilities in Dresden and construction of a new facility in Upstate New York.

Upon closing, Mubadala will:

* Purchase for an aggregate of $314 million 58 million newly issued AMD shares and warrants for 30 million additional shares, giving it a total stake in AMD of 19.3 percent on a fully diluted basis; and
* Have a right to designate a representative for election as a member of the board of directors of AMD.

[eric66]

Oh..... thank you for clarifying.

At first, I thought that this spin-off was a bad thing, due to AMD losing the close colaboration with the fabs. But I guess that this fear was unfounded. Now, I really want to see what AMD can start doing without as much debt.

exactly the most informative post in this thread seems this is perfect move for amd

[gojirasan]

If I had any money to invest I might consider buying some AMD stock. It is hard to imagine it going much lower than it already is unless they actually go out of business, which is what scares me. But I think buying any stocks right now is kind of risky. All the talk on the intertubes is of a depression that is WORSE than the one in the 1930s. Pretty scary stuff. If I had more than $500 in the bank I'd consider taking it out. Maybe I could buy half an ounce of gold with it. There is talk of double digit inflation which would be great for people with high dept and very bad for people with savings.

[BrowncoatGR]

It's sad that people cannot accept other opinions.
Way to go with the permanent ridiculing and ad hominem attacks...

That's because some people don't have an opinion but a cause.

[Shintai]

ATIC have the same powers as AMD in the board. End of story.
It´s silly keep pushing the same buton over again.

NY fab will have bulk. The 2 fabs in Germany will work on SOI.
AMD wins 1 more fab to produce, because right now Fab30 is stoped because there is no money to upgrade it.

AMD wins an extra fab producing what? Also they gotta start tool FAB38 first. And right now FAB36 is far from capacity.

This is what was expected of any "saving". ATIC got the fabs cheap from AMD. Only 1.2billion$ debt moved to the foundry. The foundry will cut profit of AMDs CPUs. Its a nice here and now boost equipmentwise. But its just a matter of time before they are doing like any foundry. Equipment will be squeezed to the last blooddrop. Just look on the other foundries for comparison, even Intel that will use Larrabee on its 45nm when CPUs shift to 32nm since chipsets basicly dissapear(Here the processlead is crucial to earn high ASP on the "old" node). Or TSMC with a low single digit % not being "old tech". And dont tell me this one will be radically different. Plus AMDs share in the new foundry will drop as time goes.

The CPU/GPU division of AMD is now sitting back with the bulk of the debt, less profit per CPU, non optimized processnode. But without the fabcost to worry about.

Its not hard to spot the black sheep of the deal.

And for the moment the NY fab is irrelevant. It will be online about the time TSMC, Intel got 22nm running in 2012 or so.

The only good part is AMD can get 45nm tools now. But the bad part is that those tools wont be replaced the next many years. And it wont be long before Intel is 2 processnodes ahead.

And equal voting rights....that also means AMD cant do anything without ATIC wanting it. In short, it needs to make profit for ATIC.

All this was needed for AMD to even try avoiding chapter 11. But it sure wasnt some epic miracle deal.

But I´m sure you already read the marketwatch etc.

Recalling the AMD founder's famous remark, he said: "When Jerry Sanders made that statement, if you want to be in the semiconductor business and you wanted to be taken seriously, you had to have a fab."
But "when Jerry Sanders made that statement, fabs probably cost $500 million or less. Today, they cost $3 billion to $4 billion. The economics and the industry have changed."

[GenTarkin]

If I had more than $500 in the bank I'd consider taking it out.

Bad thing about that is, is if everyone does that soon...the banks will go down and with that will be another massive blow to our economy only making things worse...

[nemrod]

What I want to know, is this: Will AMD still have the relations with the new company, like they did prior? Basically, will AMD still have the perks of owning their own fabs?

Obviously, this is the come back of Hector (at least, he will be the chairman of The Foundry Compagny), Doug Grose actual VP will become CEO

[DoubleZero]

The foundry will go towards a generic mainstream process node for the customers. And AMDs CPU division will have to follow.

Normally the companies follow what the costumers want, i think that's pretty much an obvious fact, known by all. But i guess you prefer the AMD dumb doomsday scenario. Does't chartered uses AMD's APM and SOI? Guess not, guess it just uses their generic mainstream process for AMD also.

[Shintai]

Normally the companies follow what the costumers want, i think that's pretty much an obvious fact, known by all. But i guess you prefer the AMD dumb doomsday scenario. Does't chartered uses AMD's APM and SOI? Guess not, guess it just uses their generic mainstream process for AMD also.

Did chartered make the highend CPUs?

[v_rr]

AMD wins an extra fab producing what? Also they gotta start tool FAB38 first. And right now FAB36 is far from capacity.

They have now 45nm K10.
And soon Fusion, Bobcat, Buldozer, etc etc

And how do you know that FAB36 is far from capacity? Taked that from where?
As far as I know fabs is producing in 65nm and 45nm right now. Capacity running numbers? Impossible to know.

And for the moment the NY fab is irrelevant. It will be online about the time TSMC, Intel got 22nm running in 2012 or so.

The only good part is AMD can get 45nm tools now. But the bad part is that those tools wont be replaced the next many years. And it wont be long before Intel is 2 processnodes ahead.

Astrological Powers "the return".
Serious you have to open a store. You could win a lot of money on those powers. It´s amazing awsome dude

If you read the new NY fab is going to build in 2009 and get online in 2010. Your numbers are a bit ridiculous because as a matter of fact AMD already said that it´s 22nm are on the way.

AMD will also advance to 32nm and 22nm in SOI and Bulk. By 2010 they have 3 fabs to build their CPU/Chip7/GPU and open to other companys. Their fabs will be equiped with the lastest equipment.
Also Abu Dabi referenced IBM process technology as the future of colaboration.

A head of communications at Foundry Co. Jon Carvill, has just confirmed that these adjustments will take place through 2009 and that AMD will be able to start production of bulk silicon by early 2010. Realistically this indicates a full ramp production will start in 2010 and that as of 2010

http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?op...9817&Itemid=34

Since AMD relies on its current fabs to make most of its processors, The Foundry Company will enter an "exclusive supply agreement with limited exceptions to manufacture AMD processors and to manufacture, where competitive, certain percentages of other AMD semiconductor products." Also, because few third parties use silicon-on-insulator technology, The Foundry Company plans to introduce a bulk silicon manufacturing process at the 32nm process node. That move should ensure the new company gets customers other than AMD, and it could also help it secure some of AMD's GPU orders. Right now, Taiwanese foundries make all AMD graphics processors using bulk silicon.

http://techreport.com/discussions.x/15649

Let me sum:
- NY fab will start building in 2009 and go online in 2010 with 32nm. 32nm SOI and Bulk.
- Fab36 produces 65nm and 45nm SOI.
- Fab38 starts tool in 2009 and gets producing in 2009 45nm SOI.
- AMD First to 22 Nm: http://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd...ntel,6175.html
- The Foundry Company will join the IBM joint development alliance for both silicon-on-insulator (SOI) and bulk silicon through the 22nm generation.
http://www.fabtech.org/news/_a/offic..._goes_fabless/

[Helmore]

v_rr, I don't want to be rude or something, but you apparently also got some of those, as you would like to call them, "Astrological powers".
Where is it stated that the NY fab will be ready for production in 2010? Nowhere, as far as I know.
The articles you just quoted state that the fabs in Dresden will start with their 'bulk' volume production in early 2010, not that the NY fab will be done by then.

[v_rr]

The articles you just quoted state that the fabs in Dresden will start with their 'bulk' volume production in early 2010, not that the NY fab will be done by then.

The NY Fab will be the only runing Bulk.
Fab36 is up and running producing K10 65nm and 45nm SOI.
Fab38 is tooling with 300mm Waffer 45nm SOI:

# Expect to increase capacity through completing the 300mm conversion of a second state-of-the-art facility in Dresden in 2009;

There is no Bulk in any of these Fabs. Bulk -> NY.
They only say that are going to tool the Fab38. Fab38 was tooling with 45nm SOI equipment but stoped after shortage of money, so they say that the tooling will start again.
If Bulk 32nm(?) show up in Fab 38 it will be really a surprise because AMD don´t have 32nm ready in SOI and not even close in Bulk and if you read the statement they talk in Bulk only in 32nm:

The Foundry Company plans to introduce a bulk silicon manufacturing process at the 32nm process node. That move should ensure the new company gets customers other than AMD, and it could also help it secure some of AMD's GPU orders.

Read the information about Fab 4x:

* Begin construction of the Fab 4X manufacturing facility in New York in the middle of 2009, directly employing more than 1,400 workers in Upstate New York when the facility is in full operation;

http://www.fabtech.org/news/_a/offic..._goes_fabless/

[metro.cl]

The NY Fab will be the only runing Bulk.
Fab36 is up and running producing K10 65nm and 45nm SOI.
Fab38 is tooling with 300mm Waffer 45nm SOI.

There is no Bulk in any of these Fabs. Bulk -> NY.
They only say that are going to tool the Fab38. Fab38 was tooling with 45nm SOI equipment but stoped after shortage of money, so they say that the tooling will start again.
If Bulk 32nm(?) show up in Fab 38 it will be really a surprise because AMD don´t have 32nm ready in SOI and not even close in Bulk and if you read the statement they talk in Bulk only in 32nm:


Read the information:

http://www.fabtech.org/news/_a/offic..._goes_fabless/

Just a recomendation read directly from AMD website you have all the info there, it only says AMD will have Bulk 32nm in the future (short term obviously).

http://web.amd.com/newglobalfoundry/
http://www.amd.com/pr/newglobalfoundry
http://web.amd.com/newglobalfoundry/backgrounder.pdf
http://web.amd.com/newglobalfoundry/...esentation.pdf

Webcasts:
http://phx.corporate-ir.net/playerli...s=wm&e=1989442
http://phx.corporate-ir.net/playerli...s=wm&e=1989440

The capacity that AMD is runing is 80% or so in their fab (according to Dirk in the webcast from today).

[v_rr]

Just a recomendation read directly from AMD website you have all the info there, it only says AMD will have Bulk 32nm in the future (short term obviously).

http://web.amd.com/newglobalfoundry/
http://www.amd.com/pr/newglobalfoundry
http://web.amd.com/newglobalfoundry/backgrounder.pdf
http://web.amd.com/newglobalfoundry/...esentation.pdf

Webcasts:
http://phx.corporate-ir.net/playerli...s=wm&e=1989442
http://phx.corporate-ir.net/playerli...s=wm&e=1989440

The capacity that AMD is runing is 80% or so in their fab (according to Dirk in the webcast from today).

Nice information. Those 80% should rise to 100% when 45nm go mass production in 2009?

That first PDF confirm what I have said:

Saratoga County, NY: The Foundry Company plans to begin construction of the first 300mm
semiconductor manufacturing facility designed for 32nm technologies at the Luther Forest
Technology Campus (LFTC) in Saratoga County, New York, once transfer of previously approved
New York State incentives is achieved.

Sunnyvale, California: The customer’s experience, from first contact to delivery of the final
product, is what differentiates the best companies in the industry. From design enablement to
the final tangible product a customer receives, what separates The Foundry Company is the
service it delivers along the way. 45nm SOI and 32nm Bulk design kits now available.

The 32nm will come in NY and Bulk will start in 32nm.
Fab 36 and Fab 38 are 65/45nm SOI exclusive FAB´s throught 2009.

[Cooper]

I don't understand what's wrong with bulk
Intel uses it

[Shintai]

So V_rr...I knew what you claimed to be impossible to know. But yes, FAB36 is only 80% used as metro.cl showed.

And you seem to be sure AMD can build and tool a fab in 1-2 years with manpower and everything. Try 3-4 if not abit longer. And then we talk 2012-2013 where the competition have had 22nm for 0-1 years.

And unless AMDs marketshare drastically changes. They wont need more than those 80%. Unless they start making GPUs on 65nm.

Your "astronomical powers" flame also seemed to backfire pretty much.

[metro.cl]

Nice information. Those 80% should rise to 100% when 45nm go mass production in 2009?

That first PDF confirm what I have said:




The 32nm will come in NY and Bulk will start in 32nm.
Fab 36 and Fab 38 are 65/45nm SOI exclusive FAB´s throught 2009.

He didn't want to say much about the deal and numbers but they said in november there will be a new analyst day and they will tell more then.

I don't understand what's wrong with bulk
Intel uses it

Nothing but AFAIK AMD still has plans for CPUs with SOI on 32nm or am i wrong?

[v_rr]

I don't understand what's wrong with bulk
Intel uses it

No problem. It´s highly possible that AMD CPU´s continue with SOI and ATI move to ATIC 32nm from TSMC.
They say that 32nm Bulk design kits are ready so ATI can start working on them to RV970 and 900 series chip7

[Shintai]

I don't understand what's wrong with bulk
Intel uses it

Nothing is wrong with bulk, more the opposite. AMDs and nVidias GPUs and chipsets is also bulk etc. SOI was superiour at 130nm and also at 90nm. But it changed radically at 65nm and even more at 45nm.

But you bet on a horse and either it lose or wins. AMDs problem is they are locked in SOI due to (stubborn) IBM in their SOI development alliance.

[Shintai]

Nice information. Those 80% should rise to 100% when 45nm go mass production in 2009?

Why would it rise? The 45nm K10 is smaller than the 65nm.

So either they have a massive defect rate?
Massive market share increase out of the blue?

Or....

Astrological Powers "the return".
Serious you have to open a store. You could win a lot of money on those powers. It´s amazing awsome dude

For you tho, dont bet on your powers...