Post Rad Chiller Concept

[NaeKuh]

Any updates on that pump mate?
Or have you looked into big heatsinks yet?

EDIT:
Take a look:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Aluminum-Heat-Si...QQcmdZViewItem

NOL im terribly sorry.

Ive been under tons of backuped work.

NOL also i think i lost your addy. Can you pm me it again.

I'll mail a pump out this week if it kills me.


Also NOL grab that sink and play with it. I'll give you around a 100 dollar play budget. Meaning do whatever you want under 100 dollars.

[littleowl]

hey Naekuh I will take that 100 dollar if nol don't use it all

[n00b 0f l337]

http://cgi.ebay.com/Aluminum-Heat-Si...ayphotohosting
Going with that one me thinks

[systemviper]

that is one interesting heatsink, but if your chop it right it should be great.

looking forward to seeing those gems rocking some coolness into your system..

[n00b 0f l337]

Okay, heatsink ordered
I'll breakdown the monster I guess into two halves, see if thats better, then we'll see about more tec's and more powersupply, but I think we'd rather avoid that.

[NaeKuh]

but I think we'd rather avoid that.

lmao..

nol you forget what forum this is?

i doubt your curiosity is gonna leave you at that.

If this was the case you'd be on [H]ardForums. :X

[eXa]

Ah come on! im impatient, i want to see how it performs!

[n00b 0f l337]

Waiting on dat heatsink to arrive.

[n00b 0f l337]

Heatsink be here, didn't see the package, must have been here since thursday.
Okay, it's really big. 4" tall is very large for a freakin heatsink. A few fins bent but got em back almost perfectly.
Now to figure a way to get this, somehow, attached to to both the pelt setups....
Any ideas? I'm tempted to just grab a wood board and use some big ass clamps.

[WoodButcher]

A couple of pieces of 3/4" alum channel or "T" stock? Do you have a scrapyard in town? It's a great place to find goodiies like this.

[NaeKuh]

Heatsink be here, didn't see the package, must have been here since thursday.
Okay, it's really big. 4" tall is very large for a freakin heatsink. A few fins bent but got em back almost perfectly.
Now to figure a way to get this, somehow, attached to to both the pelt setups....
Any ideas? I'm tempted to just grab a wood board and use some big ass clamps.

ROFLROFL..

nol i held on the pump.

I figured you'd be busy with that sink.

I'll mail you a real pump soon. Im rebuilding persephone. And im gona piss off a lot of people in the WIP.

I am gonna post 1 PIC a day. And each pic will make the people in the work log section drool cuz of the quality of parts.

Heheh.

Blame iany for the idea.

[n00b 0f l337]

Well I found a fan for it, its a 10" desk fan.... Will work amazingly
I think I'm just going to cut a peice of 3/4" plywood and use that as a clamp board...

[scifikg]

Pictures? Results?

[n00b 0f l337]

Just finished moving house, setting up the workshop again these next few days, then yes, clamps, wood board, a ten inch desk fan, and we'll see how this fairs out

[NaeKuh]

so you got a new big workbench?!?!?!

[n00b 0f l337]

Nope just setting up the old ones nicer.

[n00b 0f l337]

Uh oh....
Small problem mate, check your PM's.
Everything seems normal except, the pelts don't seem to be doing anything, but still drawing power...

[NaeKuh]

Any updates?

[Herc130]

Would be so interested in hearing an update, good or bad. It would help me and probably other people out in the possiblities of TEC chillers for PC use. I am looking at a pretty deep money pit right now to try this and so far looks like people who are more equipped and versed to successfully do this are not having much luck.

Also, what would be a better top material for the cold side of a TEC waterblock, Delrin or copper? Seemingly not much more cost to get copper then delrin for me. For the hot side, I will more then likely do an all copper block and also put fins on the top of the block. For the cold side, I'd imagine any extra attempt at aircooling chilled water will only warm it, so probably best to use delrin for the top?

Anyway, looking forward to some info

[memolipd]

Would be so interested in hearing an update, good or bad. It would help me and probably other people out in the possiblities of TEC chillers for PC use. I am looking at a pretty deep money pit right now to try this and so far looks like people who are more equipped and versed to successfully do this are not having much luck.

Also, what would be a better top material for the cold side of a TEC waterblock, Delrin or copper? Seemingly not much more cost to get copper then delrin for me. For the hot side, I will more then likely do an all copper block and also put fins on the top of the block. For the cold side, I'd imagine any extra attempt at aircooling chilled water will only warm it, so probably best to use delrin for the top?

Anyway, looking forward to some info

agreed an update would be useful for me too.

[scifikg]

Pics would be nice to have as well.

[geok1ng]

If you are not happy with the bigger TECs, here's another option - http://ferrotec.com/products/thermal...ail.php?id=114 which is a 33710 unit which is 55mm square. It has a nominal voltage of 46.4, so your 12V MeanWell will put it well down on the curve.

At 12V, it draws 2.6A, so heat in is 31.2W. You are at the 2.3 CoP point with a 10C differential, so it will move 72 watts. You have room for 4, so you could move 288W at a cost of 125W. If you want to start out with 3 units, you would move 216W at a cost of only 94W. If I were you, I would just put in 4 and use some hot side control - that way any power excursions up to 288W are handled, and at lower power transferred, your power in goes down. You are at a much more stable point than with the '437' TEC also, which makes the performance a lot more predictable. You should be able to maintain a few degrees below ambient easily.

If you keep the differential around 5C, you will get even better efficiency - that puts the CoP over 3.

That would be a truly awesome setup, and would revise the thinking of a lot of people about TEC efficiency (me included!)

<EDIT> I discovered that you can plug heatsink performance into the ferrotec calculator so i plugged in the PA160 with 130CFM. At 12V, with .02 C/W cooling, that TEC moves 120W! so 4 of them would pump 480W with 125W in. That is serious cooling.

That seems to be the optimal TEC project: High voltages TECs running at 1/7-1/8 of their rated voltages, working at small temperatures gaps 5-10C degrees across, maximum efficiency is pretty important.
If we want lower temps wouldnt be more efficient to put the TECs in a serial cascade: the first TEC running at a 35C hot-30C cold, then another at 30hot-25C cold an the last at 25C hot-20C cold for example.

The hot side water loop can use an inverse current setup (not sure about the term in english)- the last hot side-which runs at almost ambient temps uses the coolest water coming from the RAD, then moves this mildy hot water to the next stage (+5C degrees) and so on.

At this point of the project i believe that TECs working as a post RAD chiller are a true technical challenge,But the concept is quite interesting:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/FORUMS/...=189043&page=1

Just for consideration: why not plan a post RAD chiller that can run straigh from the 12v or 5v line of the ATX PSU, without adapters (maybe using TEcs in series for optimal operational voltage), in a system that is at or slightly BELOW the total system heat output at idle: instead of running the CPU at sub-zero temps, why not running the entire loop-VGA,mosfets,CPU at 3-4 C degrees below ambient: no condensation problems, no need for special PSUs, no need for a PWM regulator. Sure the temps on full load-OC will be modest, but still better than a classical waterloop, and will be much simplier and cheap to implement, and more important: safer for 24/7 use.

[ownage]

I just accidentally found this.
It seems Cathar did something like this a few years back.

http://forums.overclockers.com.au/sh...&highlight=TEC

[n00b 0f l337]

Oh a bunch of us did, Cathar's was two pelts. He found he needed more power.

[Ultrasonic2]

A single loop for the hot and cold sides of the TEC is the biggest FAIL i've heard of for years. it's impossible to get better temps that way. you can only end up with worse temps. due to the fact the TEC uses electricity that gets dumped into the loop as heat. Which means more heat needs to be dissipated by the rad which means higher temps

The whole premise for the single loop idea is floored.
It seems that people are suggesting that if you slow the flow rate down you will see a low temp coming out of the cold side which can then be used to cool the CPU. Resulting in lower CPU temps.

If we exclude the TEC chiller for now. the above will happen if you slow the flow rates down you'll will get lower temps exiting the rads than if you had a high flow rate. but that does not lead to better CPU temps. All it leads to is a greater delta between the hottest and coldest water temps.

If the flow rate is low the water will have more time to remove the heat via the rad for each rotation of the water but the flip side to this is the water has more time to heat up in the CPU so you dont achieve anything the average temp will be the same as if you had the water moving very fast which would result in a very small delta in and out. the reality faster flow would result in lower temps than slow moving water but cause it decrease laminar effect and increases turbulence (not that these factors matter for our argument)


Ambient temp 20c
Now if we add the TEC chiller in the same applies we may be getting say 5c water out the cold side because of the slow flow rate but on the hot side this would have the opposite affect resulting in higher hotside temps say 35c. the average being 20c so there is no point in having the Chiller

Now things are actually worse than that because the TEC chiller uses electricity which gets converted to heat which needs to be dissipated via the rad. More heat to dissipate for the rad means a greater delta from the air to the water temp. Meaning your worse off with the chiller than with it.

It doesn't matter how much heat the TEC's move from one side to the other it's irrelevant.

Single loop Chillers are a fail