Another! D5 vario pump top. Shootout Time?

**Eddy_EK** · 09-30-2008, 10:56 PM

Originally Posted by skinnee

Eddy, is the latest revision ready for purchase?

The new revision will be most likely out in december.

**sidewindercomp** · 09-30-2008, 11:31 PM

Originally Posted by Eddie3dfx

D5.. It's ugly and fat, but reliable.
DDC is pretty and small, but will die on you and cost you more money in the end

That was certainly the case during the ddc2's lifetime. I never could fathom why so many wanted ddc2 when it had such a chance of failure.
Not so much the case since the switch.

**DetroitAC** · 10-01-2008, 06:25 AM

Skinnee, I'd send you one for free right away if you can get a testing session together with all the competitor pumps.

I can't find any testing threads of yours, mind pointing me in the right direction?

**LeeH** · 10-01-2008, 07:23 AM

Originally Posted by Eddy_EK

The new revision will be most likely out in december.

Wait a minute here. Do you mean that the D5 EK top I just bought and that just came out is being replaced with an improved one?

**Sparky** · 10-01-2008, 07:34 AM

Originally Posted by Eddie3dfx

D5.. It's ugly and fat, but reliable.
DDC is pretty and small, but will die on you and cost you more money in the end

I beg to differ, ever since the DDC 3.x came out there have been a lot fewer reports of deaths. Actually haven't heard of one in quite a while. I think they have fixed that reliability issue now. Both are good pumps, get the one that suits your needs best. For me, the DDC worked great, the D5 would have been harder to implement in my loop setup.

**zlojack** · 10-01-2008, 07:43 AM

Originally Posted by LeeH

Wait a minute here. Do you mean that the D5 EK top I just bought and that just came out is being replaced with an improved one?

I am also concerned by this..

$80 on pump tops only to find out that they're being replaced?

**Waterlogged** · 10-01-2008, 07:49 AM

Originally Posted by LeeH

Wait a minute here. Do you mean that the D5 EK top I just bought and that just came out is being replaced with an improved one?

Yeah, it's called throwing crap out into the market just to say you were the first, something that's happening all to much these days.

**zlojack** · 10-01-2008, 07:58 AM

Originally Posted by RealRedRaider

Guys, that's how the cookie crumbles...

If it worries you, then I suggest selling them NOW, prior to the revision being released...

As long as this one performs at least as well as the stock top, I'm ok with it. I got it for the ability to use 3/8" comp fittings more than anything.

As to "how the cookie crumbles" how long has this top even been on the market? For me, if you release something and then release a revision shortly thereafter, it implies that your initial release wasn't up to snuff.

Originally Posted by Waterlogged

Yeah, it's called throwing crap out into the market just to say you were the first, something that's happening all to much these days.

**zlojack** · 10-01-2008, 08:02 AM

Originally Posted by RealRedRaider

I'm not disagreeing with that, but this is how the cookie crumbles sometimes...

Well, as I said, if it performs equal to or better than stock, I'll be fine. Since each of these pumps will be in a loop with a PA120.2 and one block each (Fuzion and an EK 4870 X2), I'm sure they'll do fine.

Eddy, what changes are coming in the revision? Anything major?

**~~Xilikon~~** · 10-01-2008, 08:21 AM

Originally Posted by Waterlogged

I don't think so.

G&M code lists - http://www.cncezpro.com/cnc.cfm

How to write G&M program (with samples) - http://www.linuxcnc.org/handbook/gcode/g-code.html

Been a hell of a long time I didn't read that... I used to learn G code and pratice a bit on a Mazak mill. IMHO, manual CNC coding is the best since you can make it optimal instead of letting a converter translate a blueprint in CNC code with some stupid time-wasting steps.

Assembly = computing language, nothing to do with G-code.

**Bregor** · 10-01-2008, 08:24 AM

Wait, you guys are upset because a new, improved part is out? This is the the enthusiast PC market - top of the line today, obsolete tomorrow. If it functions properly I cannot see what there is to complain about.

**zlojack** · 10-01-2008, 09:01 AM

Originally Posted by Bregor

Wait, you guys are upset because a new, improved part is out? This is the the enthusiast PC market - top of the line today, obsolete tomorrow. If it functions properly I cannot see what there is to complain about.

Not upset. Concerned that something is not right about the ones I have.

It's a very quick revision, is all.

**Waterlogged** · 10-01-2008, 09:11 AM

Originally Posted by Xilikon

Been a hell of a long time I didn't read that... I used to learn G code and pratice a bit on a Mazak mill. IMHO, manual CNC coding is the best since you can make it optimal instead of letting a converter translate a blueprint in CNC code with some stupid time-wasting steps.

Assembly = computing language, nothing to do with G-code.

Yeah, it's been a little over 4½ years since I've done any coding myself. I found myself looking at the second link going WTF?

Originally Posted by Bregor

Wait, you guys are upset because a new, improved part is out? This is the the enthusiast PC market - top of the line today, obsolete tomorrow. If it functions properly I cannot see what there is to complain about.

EK released their top somewhere around June/July of this year, to release a newer version in December just shows that they willingly got close to stock top performance, called it close enough and shipped it just to be able to say they were first to the market with a "usable" top (as opposed to Koolance's "unusable" top). The major reason ppl are going to be upset is that the top as it is now, is on par with the stock top and EK is now mentioning an "improved" top. If they had kept working on performance improvements on the first top, they would probably be releasing about now and had a better product for it. Too many products these days are being shipped without proper testing or known flaws and the manufacturer just brushes off and says, "we'll fix it in Rev. x".

**zlojack** · 10-01-2008, 09:15 AM

Originally Posted by Waterlogged

EK released their top somewhere around June/July of this year, to release a newer version in December just shows that they willingly got close to stock top performance, called it close enough and shipped it just to be able to say they were first to the market with a "usable" top (as opposed to Koolance's "unusable" top). The major reason ppl are going to be upset is that the top as it is now, is on par with the stock top and EK is now mentioning an "improved" top. If they had kept working on performance improvements on the first top, they would probably be releasing about now and had a better product for it. Too many products these days are being shipped without proper testing or known flaws and the manufacturer just brushes off and says, "we'll fix it in Rev. x".

Thanks for summing it up perfectly.

**LeeH** · 10-01-2008, 09:21 AM

Originally Posted by zlojack

Not upset. Concerned that something is not right about the ones I have.

It's a very quick revision, is all.

Yeah, grumble, grumble. But, if it is worth the effort to change it out, I guess I'll buy the new one too.

Operative philosophy is "never leave well enough alone"

**genec57** · 10-01-2008, 09:30 AM

DetroitAC,
All this about the EK top is interesting but if its performance is only near stock who cares? The important question is when will yours be ready for market and for how much?

**skinnee** · 10-01-2008, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by DetroitAC

Skinnee, I'd send you one for free right away if you can get a testing session together with all the competitor pumps.

I would test the EK (Rev.1 or Rev.2 depending on availability), Koolance Acetal and the Detroit AC top.

Originally Posted by DetroitAC

I can't find any testing threads of yours, mind pointing me in the right direction?

Presently, there aren't any.

I am still cutting my teeth in the testing arena, with mentoring from Martin and mcoffey. CPU block tests are going on now and I will have results and test report posted as soon as the tests are complete. I also have a fluid test that will be starting immediately after the first round of CPU block tests.

If you would like to hold off until you can see a test report or go a different route, I completely understand.

**DetroitAC** · 10-01-2008, 01:41 PM

The first small batch of pumps is done. They are not really production intent quality yet, as this batch was made while developing the CNC code and fixtures. You can't see the flaws because I'm not a very good photographer

I've made a mounting that re-uses the stock bracket but supports the pump entirely on dampening grommets, no hard contact between the pump housing and the steel bracket.

Tomorrow I start work on another full batch of pumps, should be sellable pumps if everything goes correctly...

@genec57 - very soon I hope

$35 USD + shipping

@skinnee - I'm more interested in what instruments you use and what your method of testing will be. Let's keep things open, if you can pull together the resources to do the testing, I'm game.

**evil-98** · 10-01-2008, 01:49 PM

wow very nice i like it alot

**SiGfever** · 10-01-2008, 03:21 PM

Looks very interesting, can't wait to see some test results.

About the Planned Obsolescence, with top notch vendors continually working to improve their products we will always be chasing the ultimate "whatever". It is a testament to their commitment of excellence. JMO