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Thread: Gigabyte MA790FX DQ6

  1. #926
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    Quote Originally Posted by gOtVoltage View Post
    Yes (NB CORE) is the Mobo chipset which i set @1.31v.. Also my NB/SB is combined in my Bios and i have a seprate HTvolt setting which i raise to 1.3v when going above 250fsb.. Raising the NBcore(Mobo)helps with keeping the Ram stable while the Chipset Nb talks to the CPUNB...

    The Higher You Oc the Phenon the more MoboNB chipset volts you may or may not need..


    If i keep my NBchipset(Mobo) @1.15v i can only achieve a 3.3ghzmax and it also limits my Rams top Freqency..

    I have tried numerouse setting with Ganged and unganged @ stock to 3553mhz now. Any more and My Mobo will go to the moon

    Thanks alot. This is very useful information.
    Phenom 9850 Black edition 0811 CPQW
    OCZ Vendetta cooler
    Motherboards : Gigabyte GA-MA790FX-DQ6 BIOS F7b
    RAM: 4x 1GB PC2-6400 Corsair CMT2X1024-6400C4 @ 4-4-4-12
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    Hard disc drives: Maxtor 120 GB IDE hard drive, Samsung spinpoint 1TB 7200RPM 32MB cache SATAII hard drive
    Windows XP Professional SP2 32bit/ Vista 64 bit SP1 dualboot

    #Something like a phenom, something like a phenom...

  2. #927
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    I have good news.
    I have a new GA-MA790FX-DQ6.

    I sent my one back a second time for RMA they had it for a month. I was patient, hoping that they would fix all the problems, quirks and instabilities that I spoke of before. I was also secretly hoping that they would send me a new motherboard instead if I waited long enough. I never really expected it to happen to be honest. I emailed them last monday asking for some news/ an update. I had heard nothing from Gigabyte since they phoned me 4 weeks ago. Within an hour I got a reply to my email stating they were sending me a brand new motherboard as a replacement! They said the person who phoned me was out of the office and would not be back for a few days. I can only conjecture that they thought I had been waiting long enough and didn't want to keep me waiting any longer. An excellent result considering the RMA specified REPAIR ONLY (NO REPLACEMENT)

    I got the motherboard the next day. Not only did they send the motherboard itself but the complete box with all the paraphernalia. All brand new and in pristine condition. In fact it's in better condition than the one I sent them. The swapped the serial number stickers and left the new one on the outside of the box for some reason. This motherboard was made in 2008 and the old one was made in 2007. The software/driver discs are slightly different too. The old one is version 1.0 and the new one is 1.1
    This new motherboard is great. All the problems, quirks and instabilities are gone. RAM voltage now works properly and I can now my RAM at its enhanced performance profile of 4-4-4-12 for the very first time.

    I have had this motherboard over a week now and in that time I have had to reset CMOS once!! The other one I was resetting CMOS 10+ times a day.
    The difference between the two motherboards is remarkable!!


    Thanks to all those who tried to help me. (you know who you are)
    Phenom 9850 Black edition 0811 CPQW
    OCZ Vendetta cooler
    Motherboards : Gigabyte GA-MA790FX-DQ6 BIOS F7b
    RAM: 4x 1GB PC2-6400 Corsair CMT2X1024-6400C4 @ 4-4-4-12
    Graphics card: Gigabyte 8800GT GV-NX88T512HPV1 with Zalman Vf-830Cu heatsink and Samsung VRAM
    Case: Silver Thermaltake Soprano VB1000SWS
    Powersupply: Solytech 600W SL-8600EPS
    Hard disc drives: Maxtor 120 GB IDE hard drive, Samsung spinpoint 1TB 7200RPM 32MB cache SATAII hard drive
    Windows XP Professional SP2 32bit/ Vista 64 bit SP1 dualboot

    #Something like a phenom, something like a phenom...

  3. #928
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    Discovered a new problem. Detail here :--------> http://www.xtremesystems.org/Forums/...d.php?t=199447
    I would really like to know if other DQ6 owners are seeing the same thing.

    I'd be grateful if others could test their systems and let me know please.
    Phenom 9850 Black edition 0811 CPQW
    OCZ Vendetta cooler
    Motherboards : Gigabyte GA-MA790FX-DQ6 BIOS F7b
    RAM: 4x 1GB PC2-6400 Corsair CMT2X1024-6400C4 @ 4-4-4-12
    Graphics card: Gigabyte 8800GT GV-NX88T512HPV1 with Zalman Vf-830Cu heatsink and Samsung VRAM
    Case: Silver Thermaltake Soprano VB1000SWS
    Powersupply: Solytech 600W SL-8600EPS
    Hard disc drives: Maxtor 120 GB IDE hard drive, Samsung spinpoint 1TB 7200RPM 32MB cache SATAII hard drive
    Windows XP Professional SP2 32bit/ Vista 64 bit SP1 dualboot

    #Something like a phenom, something like a phenom...

  4. #929
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phenomenalspeed View Post
    Discovered a new problem. Detail here :--------> http://www.xtremesystems.org/Forums/...d.php?t=199447
    I would really like to know if other DQ6 owners are seeing the same thing.

    I'd be grateful if others could test their systems and let me know please.
    No problem in Vista Business x64 SP1. BIOS F6b.
    Tomorrow I will try XP MediaCentre.
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  5. #930
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    False alarm.
    It turns out it was AMD Overdrive 2.1.2 enabling the TLB patch/fix on startup. I have uninstalled it until I can figure out how to prevent it from doing that.


    Thanks for that Lightman.
    Phenom 9850 Black edition 0811 CPQW
    OCZ Vendetta cooler
    Motherboards : Gigabyte GA-MA790FX-DQ6 BIOS F7b
    RAM: 4x 1GB PC2-6400 Corsair CMT2X1024-6400C4 @ 4-4-4-12
    Graphics card: Gigabyte 8800GT GV-NX88T512HPV1 with Zalman Vf-830Cu heatsink and Samsung VRAM
    Case: Silver Thermaltake Soprano VB1000SWS
    Powersupply: Solytech 600W SL-8600EPS
    Hard disc drives: Maxtor 120 GB IDE hard drive, Samsung spinpoint 1TB 7200RPM 32MB cache SATAII hard drive
    Windows XP Professional SP2 32bit/ Vista 64 bit SP1 dualboot

    #Something like a phenom, something like a phenom...

  6. #931
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    For all those who have a 9850 Black edition and this motherboard.

    Could you look at your Power on self test (POST) and please tell me what you see?

    Mine shows:
    <CPUID 00100F23 PatchID : 0065>

    I'm assuming those with similar setups should see the same thing if all is working correctly.
    I am trying to determine if this is related to the apparent BIOS bug which enables the TLB on AMD Ovedrive with Windows startup. This bug seems to be unique to me and I am at a loss to explain it.

    Thanks.
    Phenom 9850 Black edition 0811 CPQW
    OCZ Vendetta cooler
    Motherboards : Gigabyte GA-MA790FX-DQ6 BIOS F7b
    RAM: 4x 1GB PC2-6400 Corsair CMT2X1024-6400C4 @ 4-4-4-12
    Graphics card: Gigabyte 8800GT GV-NX88T512HPV1 with Zalman Vf-830Cu heatsink and Samsung VRAM
    Case: Silver Thermaltake Soprano VB1000SWS
    Powersupply: Solytech 600W SL-8600EPS
    Hard disc drives: Maxtor 120 GB IDE hard drive, Samsung spinpoint 1TB 7200RPM 32MB cache SATAII hard drive
    Windows XP Professional SP2 32bit/ Vista 64 bit SP1 dualboot

    #Something like a phenom, something like a phenom...

  7. #932
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    Anyone put a Phenom II in this board yet?
    Particle's First Rule of Online Technical Discussion:
    As a thread about any computer related subject has its length approach infinity, the likelihood and inevitability of a poorly constructed AMD vs. Intel fight also exponentially increases.

    Rule 1A:
    Likewise, the frequency of a car pseudoanalogy to explain a technical concept increases with thread length. This will make many people chuckle, as computer people are rarely knowledgeable about vehicular mechanics.

    Rule 2:
    When confronted with a post that is contrary to what a poster likes, believes, or most often wants to be correct, the poster will pick out only minor details that are largely irrelevant in an attempt to shut out the conflicting idea. The core of the post will be left alone since it isn't easy to contradict what the person is actually saying.

    Rule 2A:
    When a poster cannot properly refute a post they do not like (as described above), the poster will most likely invent fictitious counter-points and/or begin to attack the other's credibility in feeble ways that are dramatic but irrelevant. Do not underestimate this tactic, as in the online world this will sway many observers. Do not forget: Correctness is decided only by what is said last, the most loudly, or with greatest repetition.

    Remember: When debating online, everyone else is ALWAYS wrong if they do not agree with you!

  8. #933
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    Quote Originally Posted by G0ldBr1ck View Post
    Anyone put a Phenom II in this board yet?
    In several reviews I've read today PhII clocks better on DQ6 than on DS4H 100+MHz higher which is superior performance when we know that the records for now are made on DS4H.
    Quote Originally Posted by chew* View Post
    Do they even sell this board anymore? it's not listed on newegg.......
    No I think it's out of the production line. Shame, but it really was a good board, if the ACC bug hadn't pulled out of the market all SB600 mobos DQ6 would have had bright future in PhII OC.
    Last edited by Stuen4y; 01-08-2009 at 01:03 PM.
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  9. #934
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    Do they even sell this board anymore? it's not listed on newegg.......
    heatware chew*
    I've got no strings to hold me down.
    To make me fret, or make me frown.
    I had strings but now I'm free.
    There are no strings on me

  10. #935
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    As of today Gigabyte released new BIOS for DQ6 with microcode update
    F6D

    I'm getting CPU hopefully tomorrow ....
    PS. Yes, you can buy this mobo in UK
    Last edited by Lightman; 01-08-2009 at 01:22 PM.
    RiG1: Ryzen 7 1700 @4.0GHz 1.39V, Asus X370 Prime, G.Skill RipJaws 2x8GB 3200MHz CL14 Samsung B-die, TuL Vega 56 Stock, Samsung SS805 100GB SLC SDD (OS Drive) + 512GB Evo 850 SSD (2nd OS Drive) + 3TB Seagate + 1TB Seagate, BeQuiet PowerZone 1000W

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  11. #936
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    Quote Originally Posted by G0ldBr1ck View Post
    Anyone put a Phenom II in this board yet?
    yes!

    940 @ 3300 mhz stock voltage and stable.

    http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...&postcount=153
    amd 940 @ 3.5ghz stock voltage or 3.7ghz 1,425v home made cpu block 3616 mhz and 2210mhz nb stable
    gigabyte ga-ma790fx-dq6
    sapphire hd4870 1gb @ 160-200 in idle , 750-950 load, with 2 rivatuner power profiles shortcuts.
    2x 2GB OCZ Blade 8500 ddr2 1066 @ 1.85 volt
    seagate barracuda 7200-11 1x500gb & 1x640gb (rip 1 500gb barracuda )
    seagate barracuda 7200-12 1TB , very nice hd, 5 degree colder then the 640gb
    windows xp 32
    lian li pc-a70b
    cooler master real power 850watt

  12. #937
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    Crank it up man, this is XS after all

    If it goes to 3.6-3.7 stable im gonna hold on to this mbo.
    5000+ BE - lapped @ 3250 MHz @ 1.42v / 24/7
    TRUE 120 - lapped + 120mm Scythe Slipstream 1900 RPM
    Gigabyte MA 790FX-DQ6 on F5 BIOS
    2x1 GB Corsair DOMINATOR PC8500 + 2x1 GB Crucial Ballistix PC6400 @ 930 MHz CL5 2.14v
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  13. #938
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    nah i must remake a new cpu block first of copper and must get 3 strong blowers.
    this quad gets very hot when oc'd. my comp turns into one big furnace.
    amd 940 @ 3.5ghz stock voltage or 3.7ghz 1,425v home made cpu block 3616 mhz and 2210mhz nb stable
    gigabyte ga-ma790fx-dq6
    sapphire hd4870 1gb @ 160-200 in idle , 750-950 load, with 2 rivatuner power profiles shortcuts.
    2x 2GB OCZ Blade 8500 ddr2 1066 @ 1.85 volt
    seagate barracuda 7200-11 1x500gb & 1x640gb (rip 1 500gb barracuda )
    seagate barracuda 7200-12 1TB , very nice hd, 5 degree colder then the 640gb
    windows xp 32
    lian li pc-a70b
    cooler master real power 850watt

  14. #939
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    maybe now Gigabyte will bring out a equivalent board.
    Particle's First Rule of Online Technical Discussion:
    As a thread about any computer related subject has its length approach infinity, the likelihood and inevitability of a poorly constructed AMD vs. Intel fight also exponentially increases.

    Rule 1A:
    Likewise, the frequency of a car pseudoanalogy to explain a technical concept increases with thread length. This will make many people chuckle, as computer people are rarely knowledgeable about vehicular mechanics.

    Rule 2:
    When confronted with a post that is contrary to what a poster likes, believes, or most often wants to be correct, the poster will pick out only minor details that are largely irrelevant in an attempt to shut out the conflicting idea. The core of the post will be left alone since it isn't easy to contradict what the person is actually saying.

    Rule 2A:
    When a poster cannot properly refute a post they do not like (as described above), the poster will most likely invent fictitious counter-points and/or begin to attack the other's credibility in feeble ways that are dramatic but irrelevant. Do not underestimate this tactic, as in the online world this will sway many observers. Do not forget: Correctness is decided only by what is said last, the most loudly, or with greatest repetition.

    Remember: When debating online, everyone else is ALWAYS wrong if they do not agree with you!

  15. #940
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    Quote Originally Posted by BertM View Post
    nah i must remake a new cpu block first of copper and must get 3 strong blowers.
    this quad gets very hot when oc'd. my comp turns into one big furnace.
    how big of a radiator are you using ? 3x120

    maybe trying a koolance with 4x120 fans wouldn't be a bad idea.

    the aluminum block your using looks really flat, love the pic of it.

    I think you might need change where inlet hole is though, centering might gain something
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  16. #941
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    yes i will design my next one with pillars and water entrance on top.
    could take some weeks cause i have a huuuge pile of projects to finish first.

    edit: waterblock was opened few weeks ago and its totaly spotless! no corrosion visable.
    Last edited by BertM; 01-08-2009 at 02:51 PM.
    amd 940 @ 3.5ghz stock voltage or 3.7ghz 1,425v home made cpu block 3616 mhz and 2210mhz nb stable
    gigabyte ga-ma790fx-dq6
    sapphire hd4870 1gb @ 160-200 in idle , 750-950 load, with 2 rivatuner power profiles shortcuts.
    2x 2GB OCZ Blade 8500 ddr2 1066 @ 1.85 volt
    seagate barracuda 7200-11 1x500gb & 1x640gb (rip 1 500gb barracuda )
    seagate barracuda 7200-12 1TB , very nice hd, 5 degree colder then the 640gb
    windows xp 32
    lian li pc-a70b
    cooler master real power 850watt

  17. #942
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    Quote Originally Posted by G0ldBr1ck View Post
    maybe now Gigabyte will bring out a equivalent board.
    What do u mean? We still need to see how deneb will perform on DQ6 with proper cooling, and DS4H is also out, or is there something wrong with the latter?
    5000+ BE - lapped @ 3250 MHz @ 1.42v / 24/7
    TRUE 120 - lapped + 120mm Scythe Slipstream 1900 RPM
    Gigabyte MA 790FX-DQ6 on F5 BIOS
    2x1 GB Corsair DOMINATOR PC8500 + 2x1 GB Crucial Ballistix PC6400 @ 930 MHz CL5 2.14v
    Corsair HX 520W
    Sapphire HD 3870 BLUE + accelero S1 + 2 x 120mm @ 890/1300 unlocked bios / stock voltage
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  18. #943
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    Quote Originally Posted by -= rtz =- View Post
    What do u mean? We still need to see how deneb will perform on DQ6 with proper cooling, and DS4H is also out, or is there something wrong with the latter?
    The DS4H is 4+1 phase and DQ6 is 8+2.............or am I wrong about the DS4H?
    Particle's First Rule of Online Technical Discussion:
    As a thread about any computer related subject has its length approach infinity, the likelihood and inevitability of a poorly constructed AMD vs. Intel fight also exponentially increases.

    Rule 1A:
    Likewise, the frequency of a car pseudoanalogy to explain a technical concept increases with thread length. This will make many people chuckle, as computer people are rarely knowledgeable about vehicular mechanics.

    Rule 2:
    When confronted with a post that is contrary to what a poster likes, believes, or most often wants to be correct, the poster will pick out only minor details that are largely irrelevant in an attempt to shut out the conflicting idea. The core of the post will be left alone since it isn't easy to contradict what the person is actually saying.

    Rule 2A:
    When a poster cannot properly refute a post they do not like (as described above), the poster will most likely invent fictitious counter-points and/or begin to attack the other's credibility in feeble ways that are dramatic but irrelevant. Do not underestimate this tactic, as in the online world this will sway many observers. Do not forget: Correctness is decided only by what is said last, the most loudly, or with greatest repetition.

    Remember: When debating online, everyone else is ALWAYS wrong if they do not agree with you!

  19. #944
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    Quote Originally Posted by G0ldBr1ck View Post
    The DS4H is 4+1 phase and DQ6 is 8+2.............or am I wrong about the DS4H?
    Well first denebs were tested on that board and broke or came close to the 6 GHz mark, and afaik 8+2 is not needed for denebs, someone correct me if im wrong.
    5000+ BE - lapped @ 3250 MHz @ 1.42v / 24/7
    TRUE 120 - lapped + 120mm Scythe Slipstream 1900 RPM
    Gigabyte MA 790FX-DQ6 on F5 BIOS
    2x1 GB Corsair DOMINATOR PC8500 + 2x1 GB Crucial Ballistix PC6400 @ 930 MHz CL5 2.14v
    Corsair HX 520W
    Sapphire HD 3870 BLUE + accelero S1 + 2 x 120mm @ 890/1300 unlocked bios / stock voltage
    RAID 0 - Seagate 2 x 250GB 7200.10 sata II 16MB c.
    Coolermaster CM690
    Dual Boot: Vista Ultimate x64 SP2 + XP SP3 x86

  20. #945
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    I have 4 other 790fx/gx boards and the DQ6 voltage is rock solid as in virtualy no fluctuation where as my other boards have a good bit. This is helpful when using very high volts
    Particle's First Rule of Online Technical Discussion:
    As a thread about any computer related subject has its length approach infinity, the likelihood and inevitability of a poorly constructed AMD vs. Intel fight also exponentially increases.

    Rule 1A:
    Likewise, the frequency of a car pseudoanalogy to explain a technical concept increases with thread length. This will make many people chuckle, as computer people are rarely knowledgeable about vehicular mechanics.

    Rule 2:
    When confronted with a post that is contrary to what a poster likes, believes, or most often wants to be correct, the poster will pick out only minor details that are largely irrelevant in an attempt to shut out the conflicting idea. The core of the post will be left alone since it isn't easy to contradict what the person is actually saying.

    Rule 2A:
    When a poster cannot properly refute a post they do not like (as described above), the poster will most likely invent fictitious counter-points and/or begin to attack the other's credibility in feeble ways that are dramatic but irrelevant. Do not underestimate this tactic, as in the online world this will sway many observers. Do not forget: Correctness is decided only by what is said last, the most loudly, or with greatest repetition.

    Remember: When debating online, everyone else is ALWAYS wrong if they do not agree with you!

  21. #946
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    BertM have you flashed your BIOS to F6D??

    Regarding upgraded version of DQ6 I think Gigabyte will release something similar but for AM3 and best based around RD890FX! Then I'm moving up.

    I'm really happy with this board, I've got it second on XS months before official launch and it's been rock solid, stable and well packed with extras. There are some shortcomings in BIOS department, but they still have chance to improve. Maybe this new BIOS finally give NB voltage increase option? I need to check it tomorrow ...
    RiG1: Ryzen 7 1700 @4.0GHz 1.39V, Asus X370 Prime, G.Skill RipJaws 2x8GB 3200MHz CL14 Samsung B-die, TuL Vega 56 Stock, Samsung SS805 100GB SLC SDD (OS Drive) + 512GB Evo 850 SSD (2nd OS Drive) + 3TB Seagate + 1TB Seagate, BeQuiet PowerZone 1000W

    RiG2: HTPC AMD A10-7850K APU, 2x8GB Kingstone HyperX 2400C12, AsRock FM2A88M Extreme4+, 128GB SSD + 640GB Samsung 7200, LG Blu-ray Recorder, Thermaltake BACH, Hiper 4M880 880W PSU

    SmartPhone Samsung Galaxy S7 EDGE
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  22. #947
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    yep im on bios F6D.
    when i putted in the deneb, it booted with the 5000be settings XD (14 multi and other things where still intact)

    edit:
    @demonkevy666, im using pa120.3 with 2 lian li case blowers now. very weak cooling
    Last edited by BertM; 01-08-2009 at 03:33 PM.
    amd 940 @ 3.5ghz stock voltage or 3.7ghz 1,425v home made cpu block 3616 mhz and 2210mhz nb stable
    gigabyte ga-ma790fx-dq6
    sapphire hd4870 1gb @ 160-200 in idle , 750-950 load, with 2 rivatuner power profiles shortcuts.
    2x 2GB OCZ Blade 8500 ddr2 1066 @ 1.85 volt
    seagate barracuda 7200-11 1x500gb & 1x640gb (rip 1 500gb barracuda )
    seagate barracuda 7200-12 1TB , very nice hd, 5 degree colder then the 640gb
    windows xp 32
    lian li pc-a70b
    cooler master real power 850watt

  23. #948
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    let us know what you get it up to BertM
    Particle's First Rule of Online Technical Discussion:
    As a thread about any computer related subject has its length approach infinity, the likelihood and inevitability of a poorly constructed AMD vs. Intel fight also exponentially increases.

    Rule 1A:
    Likewise, the frequency of a car pseudoanalogy to explain a technical concept increases with thread length. This will make many people chuckle, as computer people are rarely knowledgeable about vehicular mechanics.

    Rule 2:
    When confronted with a post that is contrary to what a poster likes, believes, or most often wants to be correct, the poster will pick out only minor details that are largely irrelevant in an attempt to shut out the conflicting idea. The core of the post will be left alone since it isn't easy to contradict what the person is actually saying.

    Rule 2A:
    When a poster cannot properly refute a post they do not like (as described above), the poster will most likely invent fictitious counter-points and/or begin to attack the other's credibility in feeble ways that are dramatic but irrelevant. Do not underestimate this tactic, as in the online world this will sway many observers. Do not forget: Correctness is decided only by what is said last, the most loudly, or with greatest repetition.

    Remember: When debating online, everyone else is ALWAYS wrong if they do not agree with you!

  24. #949
    Xtreme Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    171
    stock voltage according to everest and cpuz but i set it to 1.3375.
    in bios voltage was set to auto i think. maybe it doesnt get accepted.
    i just upped multi to 15.5 and htt to 220, thats all.
    edit: i posted during the prime session and ran it 20 minutes more until i canceled it.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by BertM; 01-09-2009 at 12:53 PM.
    amd 940 @ 3.5ghz stock voltage or 3.7ghz 1,425v home made cpu block 3616 mhz and 2210mhz nb stable
    gigabyte ga-ma790fx-dq6
    sapphire hd4870 1gb @ 160-200 in idle , 750-950 load, with 2 rivatuner power profiles shortcuts.
    2x 2GB OCZ Blade 8500 ddr2 1066 @ 1.85 volt
    seagate barracuda 7200-11 1x500gb & 1x640gb (rip 1 500gb barracuda )
    seagate barracuda 7200-12 1TB , very nice hd, 5 degree colder then the 640gb
    windows xp 32
    lian li pc-a70b
    cooler master real power 850watt

  25. #950
    Xtreme Addict
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Birmingham AL.
    Posts
    1,079
    can you raise the NB speed with those clocks?
    Particle's First Rule of Online Technical Discussion:
    As a thread about any computer related subject has its length approach infinity, the likelihood and inevitability of a poorly constructed AMD vs. Intel fight also exponentially increases.

    Rule 1A:
    Likewise, the frequency of a car pseudoanalogy to explain a technical concept increases with thread length. This will make many people chuckle, as computer people are rarely knowledgeable about vehicular mechanics.

    Rule 2:
    When confronted with a post that is contrary to what a poster likes, believes, or most often wants to be correct, the poster will pick out only minor details that are largely irrelevant in an attempt to shut out the conflicting idea. The core of the post will be left alone since it isn't easy to contradict what the person is actually saying.

    Rule 2A:
    When a poster cannot properly refute a post they do not like (as described above), the poster will most likely invent fictitious counter-points and/or begin to attack the other's credibility in feeble ways that are dramatic but irrelevant. Do not underestimate this tactic, as in the online world this will sway many observers. Do not forget: Correctness is decided only by what is said last, the most loudly, or with greatest repetition.

    Remember: When debating online, everyone else is ALWAYS wrong if they do not agree with you!

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