My Dual Harper - Asus Z7S WS living review *56K warning*

[milkmandan]

375 x 6 gives the same errors as 375 with max mult? Ok then, it's probably VTT. Even though it shouldn't be at that kind of FSB with C0 chips...
Maybe (just maybe) your prime version is ed up? You said you are using 64bit prime.. don't. Use the normal 32bit V25.5 or 25.6 and retest.
If the problem persists, you will need to run FSB 370 at max multiplier to remain stable

Oh dont? whoops..i've been running 64bit prime all this time

370 x 8 with 64bit prime gives me 1 error 26 mins in :\ guess its not 100% stable

lemme try 32bit prime and get back to you, :\

how long should i be running prime95, before the system is deemed 'stable'?

[D_A]

JCool ... is there a bug in the 64bit version? Shouldn't it be the appropriate one to use on a 64bit OS? Does your chewing gum lose it's flavour on the bedpost overnight? No seriously, is there a problem with the 64bit version?

[milkmandan]

well 32bit prime just ran 360x8 multi 8+ hours with 0 fails/errors/crashes. time to start going back up.
maybe it was the version :\

[[XC] Hicks121]

Oh dont? whoops..i've been running 64bit prime all this time

370 x 8 with 64bit prime gives me 1 error 26 mins in :\ guess its not 100% stable

lemme try 32bit prime and get back to you, :\

how long should i be running prime95, before the system is deemed 'stable'?

This is the way I look at stability....

If it is stable for all the tasks, games, folding, whatever YOU do, it's stable. I only run orthos or prime for 15-20 minutes, it gives me a good idea if my clocks are stable, then I run BOINC & if it can handle that 24/7, it's good for me.

[milkmandan]

This is the way I look at stability....

If it is stable for all the tasks, games, folding, whatever YOU do, it's stable. I only run orthos or prime for 15-20 minutes, it gives me a good idea if my clocks are stable, then I run BOINC & if it can handle that 24/7, it's good for me.

15-20 min? i had a core crap out on me like 40+ some odd minutes into the test :\ wouldn't that be considered unstable?

[s0lid]

Don't really care about priming at all...
If pc is stable only for 2hrs then i just lower the clocks, if 20hrs i don't really mind to do anything to clocks

[jcool]

JCool ... is there a bug in the 64bit version? Shouldn't it be the appropriate one to use on a 64bit OS? Does your chewing gum lose it's flavour on the bedpost overnight? No seriously, is there a problem with the 64bit version?

Some time ago I tried the 64bit prime versions, but they triggered all kinds of odd behaviour on my machines (all running on XP x64), and since some other people also reported problems with 64bit prime I just went back to the normal 32bit versions, which work fine on any rig.
As far as I know 64bit prime has no advantages over the 32bit version anyway.

I know some of you guys don't care about prime, and I don't run prime for longer than 2-3 hours on my mainrig either. But when I'm talking about my server then it needs to be stable no matter what. It's running 24/7 for weeks or months without reboot, and I don't want any uncertainties there.

Also prime errors usually tell you what part is crapping out, so you can focus specifically on that failing part.

[ZIO]

My system has been up at 390FSB for 2+ months now and it seems very stable 24-7, I could have gotten better vid cards in retrospect, but I still can later.
This build is the very best in afforability for pure power, till next year at least when the 8 cores come out, then we'll be talking about dual 8's in a few years, lol, till then jcool's machine rules the affordable heap of PCs out there who dare to push the envelope of crunching power.

I almost hate working on my other Pc's they are WAY too slow now.

ZIO

[milkmandan]

My system has been up at 390FSB for 2+ months now and it seems very stable 24-7, I could have gotten better vid cards in retrospect, but I still can later.
This build is the very best in afforability for pure power, till next year at least when the 8 cores come out, then we'll be talking about dual 8's in a few years, lol, till then jcool's machine rules the affordable heap of PCs out there who dare to push the envelope of crunching power.

I almost hate working on my other Pc's they are WAY too slow now.

ZIO

Alrighty so my limit for overclocking is around the 365-369 range (around 2.9Ghz). 370 has issues still after 10-20 min. though i am running a little slower than expected, i guess this the best i can do. prime is very stable in this range :\

I am sure my RAM can handle it, it probably is a little on the hot side, but no time/money to get some heatsinks for it.

tried a few voltage combos, none of them seemed to help at all :\ if VTT is the problem here, increasing just NB voltage wont help right?
---
ordered my 4870 x2, should be here tomorrow, hopefully i'll have some benchies for those then.

if only asus made a bios that had as many OC settings as the Intel Skulltrail, then i would be one happy camper...

[STEvil]

I can place and hold my fingers on the heat-spreaders just fine and hold them as long as i need. Not even as hot as a car steering wheel on a baking day. I got some good airflow down there as I have a 120mm fan next to the RAM as well. and I have 2 more 120mm fans blowing at the OCZ cooler as well. Though aren't FB-DImms suppose to run hot? :\

OCZ works fine for me :\ It's better than the dominator in my opinion.
If ram heat is the issue, i prolly should purchase some heatsinks like jcool. but not until i find out what the problem is.

2nd pass for memtest, 70% done and no problems so far :\

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edit:
aww now this is messed up...

I am underclocking, 2.25GHz, at 375FSBx 6. And prime is giving me that stupid rounding error again.
I've even fed the NB 1.40V, which is the highest setting O_O...

I am unstable even at underclocking. wow....

memtest ran perfectly at 400x6 :\ 3 complete passes, 6 hours of testing, no errors *sigh*

I am getting a strong itch that maybe although my RAM is 'okay', the speed clock is lying, and that its not really 800 but 667.

the BIOS - system information - memory information shows my RAM at 667Mhz, but i duno if thats because of the E5430 :\
what does ur say jcool? I know you got E5420's, so theoretically, ur BIOS should also report your RAM as 667. :\

----
any more suggestions?

at stock voltages....going to slowly step up from 333 and see when prime starts to crap out on me.

You tested temps after being loaded for an hour or so, right? At idle the fb-dimm's arent so bad but when loaded they heat up. No they are not supposed to run hot, they just do because they are consuming way more power than an average stick of DDR2.

[milkmandan]

You tested temps after being loaded for an hour or so, right? At idle the fb-dimm's arent so bad but when loaded they heat up. No they are not supposed to run hot, they just do because they are consuming way more power than an average stick of DDR2.

Yes, after 1-2 hours of prime, i put my hand on the ram, its cooler than my SB heatsink O_O....its a little on the higher warm side, but its not burning or anything extreme.

the SB gets hot...

Is there a program i can use to monitor RAM temps? kinda like Realtemp or Coretemp?

[D_A]

That would depend on whether the modules even HAVE temp sensors of some sort built in and if the board can read them.

[ulvac]

... but I'm breaking in my system with prime and memtest myself right now. One quick question to the crowd. Which version of memtest is everyone using? I've used one from memtest.org and one from memtest86.com. The .org version has a more recent version (Feb '08 vs. Dec '07), and recognizes the correct chipset and CPU series, but misreports the memory and CPU clock speeds. The one from .com is way off in everything (2.8GHz Pentium III?!). Is there another version out there that's more up to date and/or accurate?

So far, I have 400MHz FSB with 7.5 multiplier and all stock coolers. It's rock solid with prime95 on small FFT for 8 hours overnight in a hot garage (28-32°C). Worst-case temp was 72°C on core 0 (per speedfan), with others reporting between 65-70°C. I'll post a pic of the report tomorrow.

Next stop, some real cooling.

[D_A]

I use memtest86+, the latest version.

[milkmandan]

... but I'm breaking in my system with prime and memtest myself right now. One quick question to the crowd. Which version of memtest is everyone using? I've used one from memtest.org and one from memtest86.com. The .org version has a more recent version (Feb '08 vs. Dec '07), and recognizes the correct chipset and CPU series, but misreports the memory and CPU clock speeds. The one from .com is way off in everything (2.8GHz Pentium III?!). Is there another version out there that's more up to date and/or accurate?

So far, I have 400MHz FSB with 7.5 multiplier and all stock coolers. It's rock solid with prime95 on small FFT for 8 hours overnight in a hot garage (28-32°C). Worst-case temp was 72°C on core 0 (per speedfan), with others reporting between 65-70°C. I'll post a pic of the report tomorrow.

Next stop, some real cooling.

Wow ur lucky that you are having rock solid prime results. I have watercooling and I'd be happy just to boot with 400FSB.

I used memtest86...

I just did 368 FSB with 8 multiplier and Core #8 failed with that stupid rounding error after 3 HOURS of prime. (all my rounding errors are on Core #7 or #8, never any other core)
I can't even boot windows with 400FSB

I am doing blend test, and Core #8 only gets rounding error after 3 hours of testing.
Going to run superpi at 32M and see if that fails me :\

--
I heard that cpus even at stock speed will eventually fail at prime.
Maybe i am going over my head for this stability issue and I should just clock it back up to 370+ and run it, i mean, windows boots fine :\....
several other people have the same issues as me, prime fails early and they seem to be okay for day to day use.

[jcool]

No they are not supposed to run hot, they just do because they are consuming way more power than an average stick of DDR2.

Yes they are
In most server environments FBDimms run at 80-90C on end, which is no problem at all theoretically. They'll just start throttling at some point, which is something I didn't want to risk, hence the improved cooling. But they don't die at that kind of temps.

That would depend on whether the modules even HAVE temp sensors of some sort built in and if the board can read them.

Every FBDimm has an AMB chip, whose temp can be monitored through the bios (for each stick individually on the Z7S). Mine range from 42 to 52 idle - load.

As for memtest, I also use memtest+ 2.01. It's faster than the old memtest especially with large amounts of mem.

Milkmandan, seems like you really got some crappy CPUs, I'm sorry m8
Anyway, I think you can stop priming now and start crunching. If you wanna give it a go, let it run at 370 and keep a close watch.. if the machine can run 24/7 and produces no errors in WUs I would keep it at that. If you encounter any problems, back down to 365 which should be 100% stable.
The reason why 370 might be working for you is that BOINC doesn't drain as much power as prime, meaning the vdroop is 0,01V lower (in other words, while running BOINC, Vcore and VTT are usually 0,01V higher than when running prime, at least for me).

Oh and don't worry about the SB temp, mine gets flaming hot, too

By the way.. CPUs won't fail prime at stock speeds, or truly stable overclocks. I once forgot that I had prime running on one machine and checked back after 10 days or so... it was still running

[milkmandan]

alrighty, i'll give WCG a run

and horray ?

super pi 32M ran successfully...17 odd minutes.

---
edit:
oh my god, i just booted into windows with 400FSB at 7.5 multiplier -_-... finally! this is the first time ever.
but..
prime locks up, starting any type of test, and system reboots, super pi crashes, but windows just force closes it.... cinebench10 runs fine...

tried 400fsb with 7 multiplier, booted to windows, cinebench10 runs fine, prime runs fine, but worker thread #7 and #8 fail for rounding error, and the rest of the test keeps going :\
bummer...past my RMA dates as well..

guess it really is bad CPU.. :\
do we know if ASUS will ever release a newer BIOS for this? maybe with some better OC options? If i could increase Vtt or Vcore i am pretty sure i could get this stable...

hahah if only invested in some better xeons lol this wouldn't be a problem. hahahaha

[STEvil]

Yes they are
In most server environments FBDimms run at 80-90C on end, which is no problem at all theoretically. They'll just start throttling at some point, which is something I didn't want to risk, hence the improved cooling. But they don't die at that kind of temps.

My CPU's can run at 100c too but that doesn't mean they should.

Every FBDimm has an AMB chip, whose temp can be monitored through the bios (for each stick individually on the Z7S). Mine range from 42 to 52 idle - load.

As for memtest, I also use memtest+ 2.01. It's faster than the old memtest especially with large amounts of mem.

Milkmandan, seems like you really got some crappy CPUs, I'm sorry m8
Anyway, I think you can stop priming now and start crunching. If you wanna give it a go, let it run at 370 and keep a close watch.. if the machine can run 24/7 and produces no errors in WUs I would keep it at that. If you encounter any problems, back down to 365 which should be 100% stable.
The reason why 370 might be working for you is that BOINC doesn't drain as much power as prime, meaning the vdroop is 0,01V lower (in other words, while running BOINC, Vcore and VTT are usually 0,01V higher than when running prime, at least for me).

Oh and don't worry about the SB temp, mine gets flaming hot, too

By the way.. CPUs won't fail prime at stock speeds, or truly stable overclocks. I once forgot that I had prime running on one machine and checked back after 10 days or so... it was still running

Mine are running 70c+ loaded, 400mhz 1.9v. Not bad considering they never did more than 386mhz at 1.8v on my X7DAL-E 24/7 stable. 429 with dry ice on them and the X7DAL-E.. I should dry ice them on the Z7S lol.

I really dont think that his problem is the CPU's or the memory given the wide range of cpu frequency and memory frequency he has tested. The one way to test might be to try each CPU and each memory stick individually.

[milkmandan]

I really dont think that his problem is the CPU's or the memory given the wide range of cpu frequency and memory frequency he has tested. The one way to test might be to try each CPU and each memory stick individually.

Sadly time is something i dont have much of
Doubt i am going to be taking apart the system just to find out whats wrong with my system. even if i did find out, i wont be getting any new parts anyways...

I am already achieving an overclock, from 2.66ghz to 2.92ghz. yeah it's not great, but beggars can't be choosers I prolly could push it a little more, but 365 FSB is ultra stable. 9+ hours each of small fft and blend with 0 errors. I don't even plan on running this rig 24/7. I could, but for energy reasons i prolly wont.

my cpus are in fact 1333Mhz FSB with 2.66ghz, the fact that i am running 1460Mhz with 2.92Ghz is fine with me. plus OCing is not guaranteed for everyone anyways.
i'll be keeping my eye out for a BIOS update though, wish Asus would get smart and make Vcore and Vtt options available to all CPUs.

---

I'll be going to Taiwan in 1.5 weeks, I used to live there, maybe i'll give Asus a call and give them a piece of my mind

[msimax]

hey jcool are these options available in the bios when used with qx9775 or is this guy trying to get somebody

http://cgi.ebay.com/SKULLTRAIL-BY-AS...QQcmdZViewItem

[Jaco]

the winner of that auction is also on XS (if i'm not mistaken)

[jcool]

Check back a few pages.. giorgioprimo confirmed that Vcore and VTT become available when using QX CPUs. Only that Vcore doesn't work right so far, it's only stock or 1,6V no matter what you set (which is too much except for benching).
So what they sell there with the mod and all (IF it's real) is more of a benching-only rig.

[msimax]

no im mean the part about having 1.9v vcore

[Jaco]

It's a system from 'custom built gaming PCS' .
With the mods CBGPCS explained here
That user is banned ? Why is that ?
The 'vcore offset' is probably a feature of the 0718 bios.

[sonofander]

the winner of that auction is also on XS (if i'm not mistaken)

I am I am I am!

I actually was only interested in the CPUs (putting together a skulltrail system finally) and he was really awesome to deal with. I ended up with a screaming deal on the pair of procs + the fbdimms and I can't wait to get it all together!

Anyway, I had the chance to talk to him on the phone and he explained the mods for this board to me... he said the vmod required some 28 resitor changes and 6 additional mosfets, but with an updated bios he got directly from ASUS, he is able to get the vcore up to 1.9. It is with the custom bios from ASUS that he was able to get the screenshot from the above mentioned ebay listing. Anyway, would definately make for a hell of a benching board.

I just wish the damn thing supported SLI