Microstuttering tests on ATI Radeon HD 4870 X2

[Eastcoasthandle]

Eh...
You wan't me to describe that none of these points, which you've mentioned in your post, are possible in my tests?
If you want to I can do that.
But before you'll talk that MS does't exist, just take some good 30' display, get CoJ, get 4870 CF, run a bit in grass and tell me that you can't notice that something is wrong.

In this case it's a specific problem between engine, driver or something else. Same grass stutter can be found in Dirt using the Ego engine which was improved upon in Grid. This is not an example of normal PC gaming but a example of a specific moment in the game which can lead to other possible explanations instead of video card's arch.

[bedlamite]

So I was so ulucky that I've found 16 badly coded games made on most popular engines (UE3, Source, ID tech 4, Cry and few others).
I'm talking about CoJ because it's most visible there but It's not only visible there -.-
Like I've already said, you won't notice MS if you're CPU bottlenecked and I was bottlenecked quite often with qx9770@4GHz with 4870 CF...

[Eastcoasthandle]

So I was so ulucky that I've found 16 badly coded games made on most popular engines (UE3, Source, ID tech 4, Cry and few others).
I'm talking about CoJ because it's most visible there but It's not only visible there -.-
Like I've already said, you won't notice MS if you're CPU bottlenecked and I was bottlenecked quite often with qx9770@4GHz with 4870 CF...

A few minutes ago it was COJ using grass. Which was debunked because "your stuttering problem" can be the result of other issues. Now it's a whopping 16 other vague games now? Read your own post:

Eh...
You wan't me to describe that none of these points, which you've mentioned in your post, are possible in my tests?
If you want to I can do that.
But before you'll talk that MS does't exist, just take some good 30' display, get CoJ, get 4870 CF, run a bit in grass and tell me that you can't notice that something is wrong.

In any case this only reinforces what others are starting to see or already know. Stutter is not specifically a video card or video cards related problem. Your PC setup (combination of hardware and/or software used) can contribute to stutter. Besides, the amount of time that has elapsed and no real proof should draw a red flag by now.

[Lestat]

how many of you are actually using TRUE 16x/16x motherboards!??????

16x/8x is not gunna make smooth gameplay and neither is 16x/4x

most intel chip boards are 16x/8x or 8x/8x even though they say the baord is 16x its not.

you will definately start to see some issues if you try and CF on a 16x/8x motheboard. the 2nd slot is bottlenecking you.

(another high five to nvidia and sli for no microstuddering!!!)

[STaRGaZeR]

how many of you are actually using TRUE 16x/16x motherboards!??????

16x/8x is not gunna make smooth gameplay and neither is 16x/4x

most intel chip boards are 16x/8x or 8x/8x even though they say the baord is 16x its not.

you will definately start to see some issues if you try and CF on a 16x/8x motheboard. the 2nd slot is bottlenecking you.

(another high five to nvidia and sli for no microstuddering!!!)

Too bad NV has exactly the same problem, and the cards are not bottlenecked.

[bedlamite]

Sorry.
Mobos used by me:
Asus P5E3 Premium (X48)
Gigabyte something-790FX-DQ6.
EVGA 790 Ultra
So all were 16x PCIex 2.0

So Eastcoasthandle, you say that I've had 3 benchmarking setups with "specific combination of hardware/software" causing MS?
GG.

[Hornet331]

bedlamite, any chance you know when your finished with your testing and can show results?

[bedlamite]

Monday will be last day of my test (single 3850 left for benchings, and few GTX280 SLi tests for comparison) and then I'll need few days to gather that alltogether.
Unfortunately in first article there won't be too many SLi or CF with Phenom results, because I'm time limited and I have only one QX9770, so it'll be in 99% about CF (because of upcomming 4870X2 release).
But right after 4870X2 release and tests, I'll do same thing with SLi (9600GT, 8800GT, 9800GTX, GTX260, GTX280 planned).

IMO problem is big and it's not a matter of who is and who is not right, but most important thing is to find out whats going on and we'll try to use all our AMD contats to get their attention...

[Lestat]

Too bad NV has exactly the same problem, and the cards are not bottlenecked.

i aint never seen nvidia studder.... ever..
granted i'm the first too admit i havent been around as many sli setups as alot of you have but i have never seen an sli setup studder...
i've seen sli just go to hell and get worse FPS than a single card but thats not MS thats the drivers and the game not allowing sli to work properly.

[bedlamite]

Lestat.
MS is hard to notice for most of the time and in real gaming.
In normal gaming, when you shoot, run, "turn on" physics etc you're much more often CPU bottlenecked.
Even if you're not, you're probably for most of the time above 40 FPS, where you can't notice MS with your eyes, especialy that most off ppl feel smoothness pretty much diffferent and you can quite easy get used to MS effect.
Especialy if you use < 24" display you have high FPS and nice CPU bottleneck for most of the time with SLi/CF setup.
Conclusion is, most off ppl won't ever notice something like stuttering.

[zerazax]

i aint never seen nvidia studder.... ever..
granted i'm the first too admit i havent been around as many sli setups as alot of you have but i have never seen an sli setup studder...
i've seen sli just go to hell and get worse FPS than a single card but thats not MS thats the drivers and the game not allowing sli to work properly.

SLI also uses AFR so it will inherently have the ability to MS. This has nothing to do with nvidia or ATI but with how they do the rendering

And personally, you havent seen stutter and most people haven't either - a lot of the MS talk has been hyped up and blown out or proportion considering SLI and CF have been around a long long time and no one made it a big issue before this year

[perkam]

i aint never seen nvidia studder.... ever..

WTH ?? You weren't around for the 9800GX2, then ?!

Perkam

[STaRGaZeR]

i aint never seen nvidia studder.... ever..
granted i'm the first too admit i havent been around as many sli setups as alot of you have but i have never seen an sli setup studder...
i've seen sli just go to hell and get worse FPS than a single card but thats not MS thats the drivers and the game not allowing sli to work properly.

Talk to GAR about his experience with SLI and now with CF. This is a problem inherent to all current multi-GPU solutions unfortunately, thanks to AFR.

EDIT: Oops zerazax beat me to it.

[gosh]

100 frames taken from Crysis, Very High, 1680x1050.
One color is for 4850 CF and 2nd is for GTX280.
Both shows 40 FPS average.
Guess which one is for CF and which is for single

Is that really MS, it seems that the two lines is almost perfectly in sync, just that one of the line doesn’t flatten out or how you say it.

[Cooper]

Might as well point out what each axis means. For me these are just meaningless some numbers and drawings.

[Catalyst2211]

Microstuttering, not microstuddering.
Would be interesting to see your results soon, bedlamite. But I have one question, is the CPU really that much of a bottleneck? From CPU reviews, we can see a non OCed mid-range CPU such as the E8400 puts out almost the same fps as a high end oced QXxxx... At semi-decent resolutions anyways. So does the CPU affect microstuttering? I dont know, but I think not

[Pillo-kun]

I have really never noticed MS cuz i'm using only one 8800card but i remember that in need for speed pro street it feelt like the scenes at the beggining of a race micro stuttered. I remeber that a lot of people complaind about it. It got better for me after a while after driver updates but has anyone tested multi gfx sys with nfs pro street? Not a very good game but i must say that it was a bit more demanding than grid.

[bedlamite]

Cooper, I don't think that's hard to find out.
This graph is quite simmilar to any other connected with MS.
But if you want to, 0-100 is number of frame. 0-45 is time after this frame is showed.
But well, you don't have to belive me if you don't want to.

Catalyst. In most of situations E8xxx and QX9xxx at same clock will have same scores. AFAIK number of cores > 2 makes some difference only for UT3 and Assassin's Creeed.

[Cooper]

what measurements the time graph is shown in? microseconds?
tbh i never looked into this thing.

[bedlamite]

Actualy in milliseconds.
This graph is made to show how big is delta for MGPU.
As you can see, for single card delta is not bigger than 5 ms and usualy it's about 2-3 ms.
For CF delta is much bigger, up to 30 ms, and about 20 ms average.
Both setups showed 40 FPS average, but when you run 40 FPS with MGPU you can feel that something is not going OK there...

[safan80]

WTH ?? You weren't around for the 9800GX2, then ?!

Perkam

QFT! the only thing good about the 9800gx2 is that I was able to step up to a GTX 280.

[Rammsteiner]

So as the first HD 4870X2 is for pre-order in this country now;

Would getting 2x HD 4870's solve MS over a HD 4870X2 or wont it make any difference?

And say I get MS problems with any of the above options, can I 'solve' it by simply setting more and more AA? Or actually less AA?

Im on a 24" screen and want as always everything super high details etc. Never experienced MS (I think) but Im not really willing to try it out

[adamsleath]

So I was so ulucky that I've found 16 badly coded games made on most popular engines

thanks to AFR.

time for AFR3
or AFR2+

with advanced synchroniser engine

wish i could help

the only thing good about the 9800gx2 is that I was able to step up to a GTX 280

.
ono nv wins again but they wont get the biggest 3dmark score..er i mean wantage.


...but the vsync or capped framerate thing: does that really help in some situations with this m/s?...or not? with m ul t ig p u ?

I have run a few tests in Crysis, Oblivion and COD4 with 4870 crossfire and the frames were rendered evenly in all 3 cases using fraps...

I truely believe the results can change from system to system, because in all my testing there was no evidence of micro stutter....

see, you can use cf with no m/s, so go and buy a 4870x2

[safan80]

...but the vsync or capped framerate thing: does that really help in some situations with this m/s?...or not? with m ul t ig p u ?

Are you drunk early today it didn't make a difference with the 9800GX2 is still stuttered like a B*tch.

[Rammsteiner]

First off, could someone answer my post above please.

Second, wasnt MS originally because of the PLX chip offering not too much bandwith/speed for both GPU's on the HD 3870X2?

I mean, with the HD 4870X2 they put in a 48 PCIe lane chip, 16 for each GPU and 16 for the PCIe slot and it was said this was enough. Say this is indeed enough, then there would be no MS right?

All these graphs are worrying, although we've never ever tested it before and so this might have excisted for quite a while now. If you see over 100 frames with an average of 40fps these fluctations, it's only in 2.5 secs you go up and down, is this even noticable.

The first HD 4870X2's are for pre-order now for only 416 Euro thus far and this is hell of a lot cheaper than 2x HD 4870 1GB cards (which go for 240~260/card). Im tempted to order it, but if MS is really bad this might not be a good choice. However, if I understood certain posts it shows that any mGPU setup suffers from MS so buying two HD 4870 1GB cards would still suffer from it... right?

And most important, if the PLX chip on the HD 4870X2 is not a bottleneck anymore, would eventually MS simply be fixed by drivers?

Thx in advance!