A/\/\/\C SS Build LOG

[teyber]

you would certantly make better use of your great dsh's/slhx's by doing that

[boshuter]

You should consider useing the fan after the condenser. I know it looks good to have it in front but it will perform better if it is behind it. Or better yet use 2, one in fron and one behind.

Agreed..... with the fan in front and the way the shroud is designed on the condenser, you lose a good portion of the condenser area with fan in front, and like 2long pointed out, the fan will perform better pulling air through the condenser than it will pushing. Maybe then you could get rid of about 3/4 of that DSH.

BTW, what is the length of that case? It's either very long, or thats a tiny compressor, I've never seen so much room in a normal sized SS case, that has to make it very easy to work in.

[A/\/\/\C]

Not how it turned out in tests the air is not as cold through the condenser when its pulling
why do you suppose all air cpu coolers push air onto the cpu heatsink and not pull it away ?
and belive it or not the DSH stays nice and cool of the airflow and condenser doesn,t get warm at all but it definatly achieves more than a cool enough temprature for refigerant to condense and beacause there is a fan at the rear of the case pulling it gives nice airflow through the case and cools the compressor but as i say ive tried it the other way around when this was the final design and i found it worked better on pushing instead of pulling IMO for some its personel preference
but out of interest someone try it both ways stick a temp probe on the condenser and tell me whats coldest pushing or pulling

And regarding the shroud restriction air actualy speeds up when travelling through a smaller orifice as its compression ratio changes concentratiing colder air onto the DSH if the shroud was removed the air flow would be slower thus cooler leaving the rear of the condenser, also i wouldnt want to loose any of the DSH it acts partialy as a pre condenser but everyone to there own methods i do what works for me.

And for the temps cooling a qaud using a small r134a compressor i,d say the proof is in the pudding.

BTW, what is the length of that case? It's either very long, or thats a tiny compressor, I've never seen so much room in a normal sized SS case, that has to make it very easy to work in.

Its exactly the same size as a PC case
i did post the dimensions on page 1 of this thread

[teyber]

i think its just a tiny compressor... was it 8" tall? or 10" tall? either way quite compact. my guess is 10" widex 20" long(or 22)x 10" tall... how close am i mate?

[A/\/\/\C]

case is 10 high 8 wide 20 long
one of the reasons is they will take most types of commpressor,s saving need to have different sized cases built

[teyber]

yup. the compressor your using is so small, it looks like a very inefficient case but that is a very normal sized case...

regards

[[XC] 2long4u]

Are you saying the air is cooler coming out with the fan in front?

[teyber]

Not how it turned out in tests the air is not as cold through the condenser when its pulling
why do you suppose all air cpu coolers push air onto the cpu heatsink and not pull it away ?
and belive it or not the DSH stays nice and cool of the airflow and condenser doesn,t get warm at all but it definatly achieves more than a cool enough temprature for refigerant to condense and beacause there is a fan at the rear of the case pulling it gives nice airflow through the case and cools the compressor but as i say ive tried it the other way around when this was the final design and i found it worked better on pushing instead of pulling IMO for some its personel preference
but out of interest someone try it both ways stick a temp probe on the condenser and tell me whats coldest pushing or pulling

And regarding the shroud restriction air actualy speeds up when travelling through a smaller orifice as its compression ratio changes concentratiing colder air onto the DSH if the shroud was removed the air flow would be slower thus cooler leaving the rear of the condenser, also i wouldnt want to loose any of the DSH it acts partialy as a pre condenser but everyone to there own methods i do what works for me.

And for the temps cooling a qaud using a small r134a compressor i,d say the proof is in the pudding.




Its exactly the same size as a PC case
i did post the dimensions on page 1 of this thread

Just try it then come back to us

Putting it in front will pull MORE air through condenser, and also a lot more CFM's over your nice dsh and your compressor. If your pushing through, the air flow will not be as strong through the condenser, then you kinda wasted a lot of $ on copper int he dsh.

just try it and tell us temp difference at load/ discharge pressures

regards

[A/\/\/\C]

if you READ i did try it and in this particular setup this works best the fans are set on a controller and are slow and quite take it from me ive tried it both way and on THIS setup it is best as it is.

On my autocascade with commercial condenser and compressor the fan has the capacity to pull and is set to "PULL" and cools the compressor as well sheesh ive "tested" it and it works better for this particular setup and dont see a problem
Normally i would set it up to pull but as the line above states the fans spin quite

Are you saying the air is cooler coming out with the fan in front?

and yes any fan is cooler when pushing the ONLY reason airconditiong setups have a pull fan is to cool the compressor as well other wise the air would be warm off a very hot uncooled compressor and it would pass through the condenser warm blowing outwards but on a whole do you think every CPU fan manufacture sets the fans to blow onto the heatsink because it is worse ?
the answer is NO if a system needs the air to pass the compressor with great force then a pull setup is needed and used and i know that in the case of this particular setup it isnt thats why it has 2 fans front and rear unlike most SS setups........

A fan sucking air doesn,t fully cool the air until it hits the fan when air hits a fan blade it becomes compressed this compression of air cools the air greater leaving the fan than entering the fan, on a hot day do you stand behind a fan in its Airflow to get cool ?? or do you stand in the way of the compressed air coming out of the fan blade to get cool ?? ask yourself that very question i think most people stand in front of a fan to catch the compressed cooled air! with greater air force, as i say and i will repeat it the only reason commercial setup,s have a pull fan is to use that very cool compressed air to cool the compressor
as the condenser itself doesn,t need to be massivly cooled as the refrigerant will still condense unless it is a low stage refrigerant
So because the fans in this unit are extremely slow it needs to be air pushed on the condenser and compressor cooled because of the 2 fans airflow through the case.

[boshuter]

Just try it then come back to us

Putting it in front will pull MORE air through condenser, and also a lot more CFM's over your nice dsh and your compressor. If your pushing through, the air flow will not be as strong through the condenser, then you kinda wasted a lot of $ on copper int he dsh.

just try it and tell us temp difference at load/ discharge pressures

regards

I think you are wasting your breath tyber He has a right to put the fan on the wrong side of the condenser if he wants.

[D-Rock]

If it works, it works. This is his build and I for one don't really care where he puts his fan. He made a very nice unit and it cools his quad, so what difference does it make. Dont fix it if it isnt broken.

$0.02

[A/\/\/\C]

I think you are wasting your breath tyber He has a right to put the fan on the wrong side of the condenser if he wants.

LOL its only on the wrong side if i needed it to directly cool the compressor but as i stated any fan is colder when pushing, Boshuter stick your hand behind a fan then stick it in front, THEN tell me which is colder ? if you say its colder behind i will

As i said refigeration units only pull air because the compressed fan air helps cool the compressor this is a two fan setup the rear fan is pulling the heat from the compressor the front fan is applying cold air on a push basis to the condenser and DSH it would only be the wrong side if i wanted the front fan to cool the compressor direct however i dont i want airflow from case throughput to do that
Anyway dont forget to stick your hand in front of a fan then behind and let me know whats colder, and yes i have got a right to put the fan whatever way gives be the best results and this way in this setup did so i dont look at it as being the WRONG way around.

Its clearly down to personel preference how things are done you have your ways i have mine

Also as stated above on my autocascade the fan is pulling "the correct way around as you put it" but thats because the fan has the capacity to do so, and only has one fan and it cools the compressor directly anyway seems an awfull waste a whole page topic on what way a fan should be when it works it works its relay that simple.

and teybers not wasting his time he was commenting but the fan isnt the wrong way around in THIS PARTICULAR CASE as it works BETTER

In an ideal setup a compressor would be in a seperate case cooled by its own fan and pushing air through a condenser would be cooler than pulling it you seem to miss the point that a fan on a condenser only pulls air because the colder air exiting the rear is used to cool a compressor,
and thats on a one fan setup

As i said thats why every CPU cooler manufacturer on the planet blows air at the heatsink because they have all got it wrong, they spend thousands designing heatpipe and copper coolers only to put the fans the wrong way round

But please do stick your hand in front of a fan then tell me its colder at the rear of the fan.

[SoddemFX]

A fan sucking air doesn,t fully cool the air until it hits the fan when air hits a fan blade it becomes compressed this compression of air cools the air greater leaving the fan than entering the fan

Fans don't cool air - honest to god i couldn't find a smiley to go with this, it's awesome beyond words he he

Moving air feels colder because forced convection heat transfer rises the faster the fluid you're transfering into is moving. It probably feels colder on the exhaust of the fan because the air is impacting your hand instead of being drawn around it.

Fans move air by creating a pressure drop between the front and the back. Fans are usually used to pull air but for this i don't see it making much difference.

And anyway, if you compressed air its temperature should rise. This is why super/turbo charged cars have intercoolers after the compressor, it is to cool the hot discharge gas to increase the density before it goes into the engine.

Tom

[A/\/\/\C]

actualy super turbo charged cars only have intercoolers because the turbine is propelled by exhaust gases that are extremely hot omg i cant belive you dont know exactly why a turbine on a car is intercooled ,its also cooled as there is more oxygen in cold air than warm air.

BUT SEEN AS THE EXHAUST is a few hundred degrees and the turbine is atached directly to the exhaust manifold then it gets extremly hot needing an intercooler thats why they cool it not because it becomes superheated by compression like your saying because it simply does not it will rise a little but not the way your explaining it, as if it needs an intercooler because of compresson from the turbine Lmao.

they use water sprays inline the turbo compression tube to cool as well but only because of the exhaust heating the air as it passes the aluminium side of the turbo heated by the cast iron side atached directly to manifold downpipe i happen to own a turbo vehicle atm and have fitted and moded quite a few in the past check earlier in the thread you will see the vehicle pit i happen to work on cars dont insult my inteligence on why a turbo is intercooled, your saying it as if it needs an intercooler because it becomes a few hundred degrees leaving the turbo by mere compression alone, somehow i think not !!!!

where did i say fans cooled air ? i missed that or missworded it but the air blown onto something cools it same as it does if its drawn through
but il say this again WHY DO CPU MANUFACTURES PUT FANS ON COOLER BLOWING AND NOT PULLING ??????? cant anyone answer that maybe you can soddemFX with your skills on heat convection and temprature transfer

@ soddemFX It probably feels colder when its blowing on your hand instead of being drawn around it, you said ??? So your the kind of guy that stands behind a fan on a hot day because its cooler at the back of the fan than in front where the airs blowing to Lololololol
Whatever

and compressed air in a cylinder may rise but were not talking in an air cylinder were talking in open air
from a fan the way your describing the whole things is like fans do nothing, so why use them ? ummm

Anyway dont bother to reply i wont be posting anymore about this ppl seem to have different veiws the thread wasnt about airodynimcs but it got threadjacked into an airodynamics thread but the build is finished and it works and its clean and does the job thats what it was about so frankly i dont care what fans do apart from spin and go round and round last post on the matter

[runmc]

I guess this case is closed