Cleaning Used Thermochill PA120.3

[Waterlogged]

There was a note from WS about the anode, i seen it just fine.
Still no one has answered or commented on my statement
about how the automotive industry has mixed metals for
about the last hundred years.

There are way less variables to worry about in computer w/c,ed sys
than an automotive sys.

The two main things are thermal differences and electrolysis.

Oh wait my level of knowledge isnt much

Your eyes apparently went straight to the bold type because your neglecting what I said in the rest of that post. I suggest you go back and read the whole post.

..and as for the "lack of voltage within the loop", I forget where I saw it, but someone noted that (at least with 775's) there is some kind of voltage leak once the CPU is locked down. The voltage is actually traveling through the IHS into the CPU block, I'll see if I can dig up the link. Auto's actually use a grounding strap from the engine to chassis, this along with a much higher concentration of anti-corrosive (anti-freeze) is what prevents most problems in autos.

[sirheck]

How did we kill it?
We are talking about the clensing of a heat x-changer.

[BrokenWall]

SORRY TO TAKE THE FOCUS FROM THE THREAD

But would it be alright for a couple opinions on how I should clean my used rad.
Anyone is willing to give their instructions on how to get the best cleaning of the interior and exterior of the rad.

I would hate to see that more people have fought about whats the best way, instead of answering my simple question.

[Clue69Less]

Just post just shows the level of your knowledge, which isn't much.

I know sirheck and actually he's quite knowledgable. He's pobably plumbed more water cooling systems than most of the people here.

I've been a chemist for a long time and I've never heard terminology like "5% acidity". "5% vinegar" just means 95% water plus 5% acetic acid. The pKa of acetic acid is ~4.75 so it's not a vey stong acid - and that, along with it's ease of manufacture from natural products is why it has been used to clean metals for hundreds of years. For comparison, the pKa of nitic acid is about -1.5 or -2 depending on who you believe. Since it is a logarithmic function, you're looking at 6 orders of magnitude difference in dissociation constant.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid_dissociation_constant

[NaeKuh]

SORRY TO TAKE THE FOCUS FROM THE THREAD

But would it be alright for a couple opinions on how I should clean my used rad.
Anyone is willing to give their instructions on how to get the best cleaning of the interior and exterior of the rad.

I would hate to see that more people have fought about whats the best way, instead of answering my simple question.

simple answer.

If the rad is new, use hot water. <--- This was told to us by Marci directly. PR for thermochill.

If the rad is used use 5&#37; distilled vinegar. and then flush clean.

Sirheck, lemme give you another scenario.

1/2ID tubing + RD-30 + 1/2ID barb.

Safe without clamps or no?

Or how about dual DDC-2 in serial chain one after another + 1/2ID tubing + 1/2ID barbs. Safe or no?

[sirheck]

Your eyes apparently went straight to the bold type because your neglecting what I said in the rest of that post. I suggest you go back and read the whole post.

..and as for the "lack of voltage within the loop", I forget where I saw it, but someone noted that (at least with 775's) there is some kind of voltage leak once the CPU is locked down. The voltage is actually traveling through the IHS into the CPU block, I'll see if I can dig up the link. Auto's actually use a grounding strap from the engine to chassis, this along with a much higher concentration of anti-corrosive (anti-freeze) is what prevents most problems in autos.

Yes voltage thru the cooling sys is one of the causes of electrolysis.
I am not sure how much is in a computer w/c,ing sys but i can check tommorow.
I will bring my fluke 88 home.

In a car cooling sys (ASE) says no more than 0.5 volts i believe.
The TSB for that came out years ago and i honestly cant remeber.

The grounds in automotive sys,s is where some of the current comes from.
Yes grounds DO carry current.

The simple way to tell in an automotive sys is to squeeze the hoses, if they crack they are shot, from electrolysis.

Now i wouldnt think a computer sys would do the same for many,many years.

[Movieman]

Put's on Mod hat:
Why do you guys hate me so?
I do try to be a nice guy but you guys want to have me in the hospital with a combination of nervous breakdown and carpal tunnel from all this typing.
I will add my 2 cents here and I am far from any aclaimed guru on any part of water cooling but I do live in a part of the country with HEAVY amounts of lime in the water and guess what we use: Heinz White Vinegar.
A cup in the dishwasher once a month, take the showerhead off of the shower in the bathtub and soak it overnight once a month,etc.
Now here's what common sense tells me, not someone elses opinion:
On a new radiator, rinse with hot or warm water for 15-20 minutes, then cold, then rinse it out with distilled water before putting it back into the loop.

On a used radiator.. I'd use a 50-50 mix of vinegar and water for a couple minutes shaking the hell out of it to loosen any crap in it, then flush with cold water for 10 mins then rinse well with distilled and then back into the loop.

This is what I think based on logic, not what I know so follow what you feel is right but JEEZ don't fight over it.
It just isn't worth my fingers!

[sirheck]

simple answer.

If the rad is new, use hot water. <--- This was told to us by Marci directly. PR for thermochill.

If the rad is used use 5% distilled vinegar. and then flush clean.

Sirheck, lemme give you another scenario.

1/2ID tubing + RD-30 + 1/2ID barb.

Safe without clamps or no?

Or how about dual DDC-2 in serial chain one after another + 1/2ID tubing + 1/2ID barbs. Safe or no?

Ok mr. specific.
What thickness tubing?
Give me the restriction properties of the blocks.
What all is cooled? NB,CPU,GPU,Memory,etc.
Are you runnign 25% anti-freeze and 75% water-oh wait its distilled water isnt it.

Whats the altitude?

Is it green or red cause red is always faster

Man you guys who have to be 110% precise are the ones
who are really just learning to understand cooling.

[sirheck]

Put's on Mod hat:
What do you guys hate me so?
I do try to be a nice guy but you guys want to have me in the hospital with a combination of nervous breakdown and carpal tunnel from all this typing.

Thats pretty damn good

[NaeKuh]

Ok mr. specific.
What thickness tubing?
Give me the restriction properties of the blocks.
What all is cooled? NB,CPU,GPU,Memory,etc.
Are you runnign 25% anti-freeze and 75% water-oh wait its distilled water isnt it.

Whats the altitude?

Is it green or red cause red is always faster

Man you guys who have to be 110% precise are the ones
who are really just learning to understand cooling.

Ummmm 1/2ID 3/4OD Tygon R3603 tubing.

RD-30 @ 25V -> PA120.3 -> ApogeeGTX Copper top -> MCW30 -> EK250

Straight distilled.

According to my GPS about 113ft.

how does green or red have anything to do with it?

And no im asking you a serious question. IS it SAFE or NOT? Why you dodging the question?

[sirheck]

Man you guys who have to be 110&#37; precise are the ones
who are really just learning to understand cooling.

[Movieman]

Thats pretty damn good

Thank you..
To the rest:
Just so you know where I'm coming from.
I've done a grand total of one water cooled system.
I came to this section last summer and read and got great advice from many of you. It is greatly appreciated. I took my time, used all the info that made sense to me and followed your leads.
I set this system up last August, it runs at 100% load 24/7 and hasn't been touched in the last nine months.. Now keep in mind that this uses 2-145w cpu's, clovertowns at 3157 and they aren't G0's but a mix of a B1 and a B3 so there is REAL heat being pumped into this system but it takes it and performs well:
http://www.xtremesystems.com/modules...wcontent&id=48

[NaeKuh]

Man you guys who have to be 110&#37; precise are the ones
who are really just learning to understand cooling.

so by you not answering the answer is no its not safe.




Thank you, thats all you needed to say.

And yes its only cooling, but that cooling system is supporting expensive hardware.

[sirheck]

so by you not answering the answer is no its not safe.




Thank you, thats all you needed to say.

And yes its only cooling, but that cooling system is supporting expensive hardware.

Thats what i was impliying.
New people to watercooling who slap tubes on with no straps,clamps,etc.
Like the ones they see in pics here think (ok cool).

Then they move,mess around (have to repeat myself-again)
inside their case and disrupt/dislodge a hose and BAM a leak.

But then again its thier own risk and they should be aware of that.

[Clue69Less]

And yes its only cooling, but that cooling system is supporting expensive hardware.

It's all relative. I'd hate to have to replace my PC parts. But I've built WC systems for reactors sitting in high vacuum systems with ~100K$ of turbo pumps immediately below and tens of thousands of dollars worth of targets that have to be kept cool by the loop or they are trashed. That's quite a bit more expensive than the typical high end enthusiast PC. Not only that - if you fcuk up and kill your PC, it's a bummer and you replace it when you can afford it. Dump water onto a $50K maglev turbo pump and you just might get fired. WC'ed PCs are for the most part, a hobby.

[BrokenWall]

OK Fine guys, have my thread, I will just try what movieman said, I am just tired of trying to read though this arguement, thanks.

Have fun, I am ending my thread since I didn't get a great amount of help though proving stupid theories and arguements about this and that.

[NaeKuh]

OK Fine guys, have my thread, I will just try what movieman said, I am just tired of trying to read though this arguement, thanks.

Have fun, I am ending my thread since I didn't get a great amount of help though proving stupid theories and arguements about this and that.

Im terribly sorry.

As i said, go for the vinegar dip, and you'll be good to go. Make sure you flush your radiator good b4 looping it up, and make sure you got all the vinegar out or your insides will oxidize within a matter of 1 day.

[Clue69Less]

and make sure you got all the vinegar out or your insides will oxidize within a matter of 1 day.

OK Fine guys, have my thread, I will just try what movieman said, I am just tired of trying to read though this arguement, thanks.

Have fun, I am ending my thread since I didn't get a great amount of help though proving stupid theories and arguements about this and that.

I'm sorry you feel you didn't get help. I thought you got loads of advice. Many questions like yours do not have a cut and dried answer and regardless of the solution you pick to solve a problem, it will involve compromises. Look at naekuh's comment above - he recommends vinegar to clean the rad but then says to get it all out or the insides will oxidize within a day. Think about that. If a little bit of residual vinegar is enough to trash your rad, then what do you think is happening to the insides when you have it full of vinegar? Again, it's a compromise solution and in many instances is an agreeable one. But you should know that chemical cleaning metals with acids results in a chemical reaction with both the gunk you're trying to get rid of and the base metal you want to preserve.

[Xilikon]

sirheck and Clue69Less, stop trying to be too smart and nitpick everything... While I might believe you are knowledgeable in your respective areas, it's not always easy to translate into watercooling. Having a good theorical knowledge is a good thing but having a lot of pratical experience is better.

For example, about mixing metals, which both of you said it ok, can you give me ONE component made from aluminium which perform much better than the current accepted best ? This is precisely why the experienced users will always say NO to mixing metals because there is PLENTY of choices without ever using aluminium. Do you know the word KISS (not the common word but the acronym) ?

About the vinegar rinse, we don't care about the chemisty theory, only on actual effects. We all know leaving vinegar sitting for long will cause damage but it's also a potent cleaner to remove oxidization so with some care and following some rules, it's ok. That's what we are trying to explain here in the thread until both of you barge with your luggage of knowledge and a small purse of experience.

NaeKuh have a boatload of experience, toying with a lot of parts for a few years so if he say so or so, it's usually correct.

[Brave758]

sirheck and Clue69Less, stop trying to be too smart and nitpick everything... While I might believe you are knowledgeable in your respective areas, it's not always easy to translate into watercooling. Having a good theorical knowledge is a good thing but having a lot of pratical experience is better.

For example, about mixing metals, which both of you said it ok, can you give me ONE component made from aluminium which perform much better than the current accepted best ? This is precisely why the experienced users will always say NO to mixing metals because there is PLENTY of choices without ever using aluminium. Do you know the word KISS (not the common word but the acronym) ?

About the vinegar rinse, we don't care about the chemisty theory, only on actual effects. We all know leaving vinegar sitting for long will cause damage but it's also a potent cleaner to remove oxidization so with some care and following some rules, it's ok. That's what we are trying to explain here in the thread until both of you barge with your luggage of knowledge and a small purse of experience.

NaeKuh have a boatload of experience, toying with a lot of parts for a few years so if he say so or so, it's usually correct.

Well put Xilikon,
The end of the day its a hobby, a bit of fun and a bit of showing off. The day i take it too serous is the day i want to be payed for doing it.

Oh ya i'd go for the white vinegar too, but if your not happy with that there are products out there designed for loop cleaning, hey you pay ya money and take your chances

[IanY]

I've taken to using a pressure washer. It certainly works.

[SoulsCollective]

Jesus Christ people.

Chill. Pill.

Recommending this for closure, as OP has stated that the question has been answered to their satisfaction and this is getting so off-topic.

[kinghong1970]

Clue69Less, seriously, was that necessary?

[fungry]

Guys as informative as it is, all I can say is... take it easy people.
I love the perspectives you people have supplied and it definitely has been added to my w/c knowledge ^^.

[SoulsCollective]

Too bad you didn't recommend a chill pill to the dude that told me I don't have practical experience. I guess that kind of unfounded attack is valid around here.

Too bad you're being so incredibly sensitive that you construe "people" to refer to "me specifically".

Mods? Please?