AMD Says That K10 Problems Will Only Be Cured by K11

[Monkeywoman]

"Advanced Micro Devices has been struggling to deliver higher-performance quad-core central processing units for months to address the market of enthusiasts, unfortunately, without much luck. But things may be more complicated than one may imagine and the chipmaker will continue to have hard times with higher-performance chips until the new code-named Bulldozer micro-architecture arrives.

AMD’s Athlon 64 and Opteron processors substantially reshaped the markets of desktop, server and workstation chips thanks to serious performance advantage over competing solutions from Intel, however, the new-generation code-named K10 central processing units (CPUs) can hardly leave Intel’s chips behind in terms of performance, but consume considerably more power. Apparently, AMD has problems with the design of its quad-core AMD Phenom and AMD Opteron processors that cannot be cured easily enough by tweaking the current hardware based on the current micro-architecture.

“If I look at the next-generation architecture of our CPU, then it will definitely not be, how can I say, comparable with the Phenom. It will look completely different. [It will] solve problems that today we think can never be addressed by hardware,” said Giuseppe Amato, technical director of sales and marketing for EMEA region at AMD in an interview with Custom PC web-site.

AMD admitted in the past that it had issues with “wedding” the chip design with process technology, but denied the fact that it had issues with the micro-architecture or its current implementation when it comes to volume production. However, judging by the fact that the company still cannot deliver quad-core microprocessors clocked at 2.60GHz or higher, it has issues with volume manufacturing of higher-end K10 generation chips. If Mr. Amato’s comments touch upon the problems of higher-end chips’ volume ramp, then it will be pretty hard for AMD to compete against Intel for higher-end CPU market.

Bulldozer is the next-generation micro-architecture and processor design developed from the ground up by AMD. It is expected that the next-generation micro-processors will offer considerably higher performance than current-generation chips. AMD Bulldozer CPUs will feature SSE5 instruction set. The first Bulldozer processors are projected to emerge on the market in very late 2009 at the earliest or early 2011 at the latest."

source; http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/dis..._Hardware.html
too little too late

[Shintai]

I dont think K11 will cure anything. It will just be what they need now, but at a time where Nehalem/Westmere roams the sea. And from their own numbers we talk mid2010 or Q3 most likely. Thats 32nm and Westmere.

[Thund3rb1rd]

it's going to be a long 20 months for AMD.....but I hope they pull something together...I'm bored with the all Intel scene at current

[BrowncoatGR]

I fail to see how they reached that conclusion from what Guiseppe Amato said. He is clearly referring to something different and not problems with current hardware. Xbitlabs is fast replacing THG as the major source of Anti-AMD FUD really. Also Bulldozer is targeted at early 2010/ late 2009 not early 2011.

[largon]

BrowncoatGR,
Swift "Fusion" (K10+iGPU+PCIe) will come before Bulldozer. Swift is targeted to 2H09, there's no way Bulldozer would emerge anywhere near late '09 / early '10.

[villa1n]

I fail to see how they reached that conclusion from what Guiseppe Amato said. He is clearly referring to something different and not problems with current hardware. Xbitlabs is fast replacing THG as the major source of Anti-AMD FUD really. Also Bulldozer is targeted at early 2010/ late 2009 not early 2011.

I agree. He is talking about issues with the way current cpu's operate.

"AMD’s technical director of sales and marketing for EMEA, Giuseppe Amato, told Custom PC that ‘if I look at the next generation architecture of our CPU, then it will definitely not be, how can I say, comparable with the Phenom. It will look completely different.’ Amato was unable to give us any specific details of the new architecture, but did add that it would ‘solve problems that today we think can never be addressed by hardware.’"

Hardware, as in current gpu, hd's, etc... they have done some sort of hybridization. Intel is trying to head the same direction, so its not really a surprise. He is merely alluding to the fact, that there will be no comparison, because the new arch will be a paradigm shift.

[BrowncoatGR]

BrowncoatGR,
Swift "Fusion" (K10+iGPU+PCIe) will come before Bulldozer. Swift is targeted to 2H09, there's no way Bulldozer would emerge anywhere near late '09 / early '10.

Clearly we’ll give our product line a good pop when we iintroduce the 45-nanometer quad-core products, code named Shanghai. And then we’ll be introducing a new platform architecture later 2009, early 2010.

Source Seeking Alpha Q108 Earnings Call
Afaik swift is targeted at mobile and low end desktops whereas i expect Bulldozer to be released as a server chip initially like all new AMD cores.

[YukonTrooper]

"If I look at the next-generation architecture of our CPU, then it will definitely not be, how can I say, comparable with the Phenom. It will look completely different."

I think AMD is really onto something...

[Face]

Original quote and info came from here >>
http://www.custompc.co.uk/news/60251...different.html

It was already known for a long time now that Bulldozer will be a completely new design developed from the ground up. So he's not really being too helpful or telling us something that we didn't know already.

But the X-Bit interpretations are not being too helpful either.. >> Always better to read the real source and judge things by yourself, instead of being fed-up with {sometimes} loony commentaries.

Just my $0.02.

[twilyth]

I want to know what he means by this comment

“If I look at the next-generation architecture of our CPU, then it will definitely not be, how can I say, comparable with the Phenom. It will look completely different. [It will] solve problems that today we think can never be addressed by hardware,” said Giuseppe Amato, technical director of sales and marketing for EMEA region at AMD in an interview with Custom PC web-site.

Is he talking about multi-threading single thread apps or something like that? D@mn, that would give me a 4 week HO.

[freeloader]

What K10 problems?

[Syn.]

What K10 problems?

Yea i am with this guy, what problems?

[YukonTrooper]

I think he might have been being sarcastic Syn. If not, you're both in denial.

[Shintai]

Is he talking about multi-threading single thread apps or something like that? D@mn, that would give me a 4 week HO.

No, and remember he is also a marketing guy. K11 could just aswell be another flop. But it will be about 2 years or more before we know.

Well flop is the wrong word, K10 wouldnt have been a flop if it wasnt for Core 2. But K11 needs to be more than Core 2 was to P4. Just too unlikely.

[perkam]

Eh? AMD is just trying to distract people from its bottom line.

It's largest priority is to get its desktop and server proccies to 45nm and be able to produce them in mass quantities, AND ship them out to OEMs at max by Q1 2009, as it has its largest share of debt holdings due in 2010-2011 period in which it also has the biggest chance of going under unless it can rapidly expand its revenue streams. (Yes, I'm quite knowledgeable of AMD's bottom line, because AMD's bottom line is filled with lots of 0s in the negatives, while Intel has lots of 0's in the positives :p )

So yes, 45nm K10 will be the greatest test for AMD, not some hyped ill-timed successor.

Perkam

[Syn.]

I think he might have been being sarcastic Syn. If not, you're both in denial.

Personally i am not in denial i just dont need anything more then an Phenom 9950.

[awdrifter]

AMD released the K10 Phenoms not too long ago, I really doubt they will release anything other than more cache and a die shrink. K11 probably won't come out for another year or two.

[nn_step]

I think he might have been being sarcastic Syn. If not, you're both in denial.

just remember denial is not just a river in Egypt

[saaya]

very late 2009 at the earliest or early 2011 at the latest."

intel: tick tock tick tock tick tock
amd: in 1-3 years we "might" do this... then in 6-12 years we will eventually do this...

[Rock&Roll]

intel: tick tock tick tock tick tock
amd: in 1-3 years we "might" do this... then in 6-12 years we will eventually do this...

I am so sad by this that I am actually mad. AMD needs to shut their trap and disappear into the abyss if they're going to just continue being so damn piss-poor. Unless they are going to say "We just killed Intel with the processor we're releasing today", they can f' off. I loved buying AMD, supporting the little guy. But they are so pathetic now, I have no sympathy.

[Sparky]

just remember denial is not just a river in Egypt

OK I'll admit I laughed a little

[tbone8ty]

whats wrong?

i have my phenom at 3.0ghz, plays everything perfect. i couldnt ask for anything more.

[twilyth]

To everyone who gave me hope for AMD's future - Thank You!!!

As for the rest of you - suck on my brand new Q9450!! WAIT, I meant to order a 9850!! Oh, just forget it.

[stocius]

If I have to buy Intel, I won't be buying computers. I hate my Intel q666 (no I didn't mistype), it moves like a bloated whale, but sure it benches great. Whoop-de-frickin' doo. AMD or ANYONE get your together.

[knightwolf654]

2011?!?!?!!?!?
holy crapola!