ATI Radeon HD 4000 Series discussion

[whocaresbg]

The original source doesn't say C2D. VR-Zone came up with that. I'm 99% sure it's the same screens they're talking about.

//Andreas

They talked for C2D E6750 .

[NH|Delph1]

They talked for C2D E6750 .

The Chiphell news says:

We just caught a news saying RV770XT’s score would be twice as HD2900Pro under 3DMark06. A further judgement is probably needed in the following days.

Not a word about the system used.

Then VR-Zone adds

HD2900PRO 3DMARK06 SCORE = 9K (cpu=c2d e6700)
RV770XT=2 X HD2900PRO = 18K

Which reflects the previous FAKE pictures.

I'm simply fighting this, because I seriously don't believe RV770 is twice as fast as RV670 with just 50% more shaders. It will be significantly faster, but 100% is hoping for a bit much, don't you think?

We all know that the TMUs limited RV670, but doubling the amount of TMUs should not give such a boost as the one they claim here.

//Andreas

[whocaresbg]

RV740 will be the G94's competitor and we know very well that the GF 9600 offers same performormance levels as RV670 . From slides, showed from German site RV740 will feature 240 SP/24 TMU/ 12 ? ROPs . I think that the difference from R600 will some tweaks in the unified shader architecture, next gen Tesselation unit, ROP AA 4z/clk,doubled TMU and better multitexture management, larger L1/L2 texture cache and so on and so forth .
18 k points sounds too incredibly but not impossible .

[v_rr]

I'm simply fighting this, because I seriously don't believe RV770 is twice as fast as RV670 with just 50% more shaders. It will be significantly faster, but 100% is hoping for a bit much, don't you think?

We all know that the TMUs limited RV670, but doubling the amount of TMUs should not give such a boost as the one they claim here.

//Andreas

100% more TMUs in a faster clock.
50% more SP´s in a much faster clock.
Larger caches and new tweaks.

So everything is possible. Is a matter of waiting.

One HD 3870 makes 11K in 3dmark 2006. Going to 18K isn´t at all 100% improvement, but rather 60% improvement witch is possible and not impossible.

[CadESin]

100% more TMUs in a faster clock.
50% more SP´s in a much faster clock.
Larger caches and new tweaks.

So everything is possible. Is a matter of waiting.

One HD 3870 makes 11K in 3dmark 2006. Going to 18K isn´t at all 100% improvement, but rather 60% improvement witch is possible and not impossible.

Its more then just a change in TMU's and SP's, we have to look at the sheer core speeds we are dealing with here.

From what I have seen the HD 4000 will be buit more like Nvidia cards when it comes to the split between core clock and shader clock.

That means that the top of the line 4870 with its core clock of 1050mhz, the shaders would be running at 2625mhz, which is simply insane. (the diffrence between core and shaders on nvidia cards run around 2.5 times the core, so I just used that number)

Then take in to effect the added memory bandwith of GDDR5, as well as the tweaks to the core and the AA fix, a 100% improvement seems possable, maybe not without AA, but I could see a 100% improvement with AA on under high resolutions.

Add to that the fact CFX works and Quad SLI simply does not (Nivida fan boys don't hunt me down, I have seen my room mate trying to get his 2 9800GX2's to work), ATI could find it's self in a very good place in 2008. And we as consumers are in a good place too, cheap killer video cards... and the idea of 2 4870X2's in CFX make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

[adamsleath]

2 4870X2's in CFX

tell me this isnt going to have its share of driver problems.

[NH|Delph1]

100% more TMUs in a faster clock.
50% more SP´s in a much faster clock.
Larger caches and new tweaks.

So everything is possible. Is a matter of waiting.

One HD 3870 makes 11K in 3dmark 2006. Going to 18K isn´t at all 100% improvement, but rather 60% improvement witch is possible and not impossible.

I'm not saying it's impossible but the discussion we're having is based on a benchmark proved to be fake, thus flawed from the very beginning.

RV770 is going to bring new life to ATI, I'm not doubting that, but I don't think we should be expecting miracles. And we should wait for better and actual benchmarks

//Andreas

[Mungri]

Ok, this card is the only thing I have left to get now.

Upgraded my other stuffs that I wanted to update to over the last week thanks to an offer on the Ram and a price drop on the samsung T166 just today to £44.50.

I hope ATI doesnt dissapoint.

I could just grab a cheap 3850 after they drop in price and crossfire it with my 3870 too, but I am expecting a single 4870 to be equal to, or faster then this.

But then again, I dont want cheap brand ATI cards anymore after getting a Triplex (terrible support over the powerplay problems), I want to get a Sappphire or HIS next.

[Revv23]

ati has too many model numbers for me latley... i cant keep track anymore

I guess i am losing my hardcoreness

[LordEC911]

From what I have seen the HD 4000 will be buit more like Nvidia cards when it comes to the split between core clock and shader clock.

IMO- This is doubtful, not impossible but unlikely.
The whole point of the architecture is to have "more" than sufficient shader power.
I highly doubt that AMD is going to nerf the card by having an independent shader domain.

That means that the top of the line 4870 with its core clock of 1050mhz, the shaders would be running at 2625mhz, which is simply insane. (the diffrence between core and shaders on nvidia cards run around 2.5 times the core, so I just used that number)

Current rumors are talking about a +200mhz shader core, so the core runs at 850 and the shaders are running at 1050.

[perkam]

ati has too many model numbers for me latley... i cant keep track anymore

I guess i am losing my hardcoreness

Hmm... Well theres:

4870X2 2GB (RV770X2) - $500
4870X2 1GB (RV770X2) - $450
4870 1GB (RV770) - $330
4870 512MB (RV770) - $280
4850 512MB(RV770) - $210
4850 256MB (RV770) - $180
4650 512MB (RV740) - $125
4650 256MB (RV740) - $115
4470 (RV710) - $99
4450 (RV710) - $80
3870X2 1GB (RV670X2) - $425
3870 1GB (RV670) - $225
3870 512MB (RV670) - $190
3850X2 1GB (RV670X2) - $299
3850 512MB (RV670) - $160
3850 256MB (RV670) - $130
3830 (128-Bit RV670) - $125
3650 (RV635) - $99
3470 (RV620) - $80
3450 (RV620) - $60

That should be about right. (Though, prices for HD 3xxx series are current prices and will most likely be cut when the HD 4xxx series comes out). The best buy will be the 4870 512MB GDDR5 (if they do end up using GDDR5).

Perkam

[Origin_Unknown]

4870X2 2GB (RV770X2) - $500

thats the one i want

[Mungri]

4870 1GB (RV770) - $330

This one for me, but looking at the price, I think I'll need to wait for a price drop on that now

[Scimitar]

Stream Processors:

3870 - 320 @ 775 MHz
4870 - 480 @ 1050 MHz

4870 is 2.03 times as fast here.

TMUs:

3870 - 16 @ 775 MHz
4870 - 32 @ 850 MHz

4870 is 2.19 times as fast here

ROPs

3870 - 16 @ 775 MHz
4870 - 16 @ 850 MHz

4870 is 1.1 times faster here.

It should be a very fast card at a good price, I can't wait.

[perkam]

Stream Processors:

3870 - 320 @ 775 MHz
4870 - 480 @ 1050 MHz

4870 is 2.03 times as fast here.

It should be a very fast card at a good price, I can't wait.

Actually I am hoping this bit of info from the TG Daily article is correct as well:

New for the 4800 series is AMD’s decision to split the clock of the GPU and shaders, following a move that NVIDIA made with the GeForce 8800. The Radeon 4850 will debut with a GPU clocked at 650 MHz, while the shader array will be clocked 850 MHz. The 4870 has an 850 MHz core and a 1050 MHz shader clock.

I am hoping this makes a tangible difference, and that they can pull it off. This should be doable if the RV7xx architecture is slightly updated version of the RV6xx architecture.

That is assuming ATI really is hoping to catch up to the 8800GTX and 9800GTX decisively instead of offering the same or slightly lower performance at the slightly lower price tag, which is more beating around the bush in my opinion, and will only force them to do something drastic (like what happened with the R500 fiasco) in order to combat the GT-200.

To ATI's advantage is the fact that Nvidia is going through a process shrink that will require proper tweaking before perfection, not to mention their recent increase in rivalry with Intel in the chipset market. Thing about Nvidia, though is, its like a loyal horse galloping towards you, consistently at 100km/h, without fail. ATI is like a horse that will look better while it runs, but you never know when it might trip X(

Perkam

[Origin_Unknown]

the release date should be tuesday?

[DeathReborn]

Hmm... Well theres:

4870X2 2GB (RV770X2) - $500
4870X2 1GB (RV770X2) - $450
4870 1GB (RV770) - $330
4870 512MB (RV770) - $280
4850 512MB(RV770) - $210
4850 256MB (RV770) - $180
4650 512MB (RV740) - $125
4650 256MB (RV740) - $115
4470 (RV710) - $99
4450 (RV710) - $80
3870X2 1GB (RV670X2) - $425
3870 1GB (RV670) - $225
3870 512MB (RV670) - $190
3850X2 1GB (RV670X2) - $299
3850 512MB (RV670) - $160
3850 256MB (RV670) - $130
3830 (128-Bit RV670) - $125
3650 (RV635) - $99
3470 (RV620) - $80
3450 (RV620) - $60

That should be about right. (Though, prices for HD 3xxx series are current prices and will most likely be cut when the HD 4xxx series comes out). The best buy will be the 4870 512MB GDDR5 (if they do end up using GDDR5).

Perkam

There is also the 3690, then renamed & re-released as 3830.

[Jowy Atreides]

the release date should be tuesday?

This Tuesday?
(well i'm guessing since you refer by day and not date)

I'll be stoked if it's out this soon

[ANP !!!]

4870X2 2GB (RV770X2) - $500


Sweet

[Origin_Unknown]

This Tuesday?
(well i'm guessing since you refer by day and not date)

I'll be stoked if it's out this soon

sorry - by tuesday i ment thursday since its the 1st of the month

[Jowy Atreides]

sorry - by tuesday i ment thursday since its the 1st of the month

ah

Still, that's very close

I've been dying for some high performance cards for crysis sandbox modding

4870X2 2GB (RV770X2) - $500


Sweet

That's not much more than a 9800gtx costs in the uk

http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/d...html?s=9800gtx


The 4870x2 looks like a great option as a stopgap untill gt200
(if it's better)

[ColonelCain]

4870X2 2GB (RV770X2) - $500


Sweet

I almost just want to get 2x 4870's, cause they are easier to watercool. That, and probably can achieve higher clocks (I would imagine that the extra PCB "breathing room" would be helpfull). I just hate that 2 1gb 4870's cost $100 more than the X2.

[Mungri]

It would be sweet if they are released on thursday!

I just wonder how many people are going to be selling their 3870's as soon as they are released though

[biohead]

I'd like them to work with 3800 cards. Then I wouldn't feel a particular need to sell this one off when getting a 4850. Hypothetically that is.

I'd also like these 4k series to support software voltage adjustments again. Then getting a 4850 and putting a good CPU cooler on it would do just as well as a 4870 (I have a SI128 collecting dust).

[Mungri]

I think with the price difference between the 4870 and 4850, I'll be seriously considering the 4850, particularly if Powercolor or another vendor can pull of an overclocked version of it.

Even if they work with the 3800 range, I really want to get rid of my Triplex now because I want a better brand.