ATI Radeon HD 4000 Series discussion

[NH|Delph1]

R600 was 4:1 in terms of ALU:Tex
If RV770 really has 96 shaders then it would be 3:1


With 96 shaders it should be kept at 4SIMDs.
The rumored 160shaders was also rumored to be a 5SIMD approach.
The amount of SIMDs are important to efficiency due to the batch size.

Based on discussions with people in Taiwan, RV770 seems to employ 5:1 ratio and 160 shaders. Not that this is a fact, but it does look a lot more believable than anything else I've heard.

//Andreas

[largon]

160 SPs (3 sub-units / SP) with 32 TMUs would be really nice. Narrower SPs would certainly help increase efficiency of the ALUs - this alone could easily more than double RV770's shader core throughput compared to RV670.

[AliG]

R600 was 4:1 in terms of ALU:Tex
If RV770 really has 96 shaders then it would be 3:1


With 96 shaders it should be kept at 4SIMDs.
The rumored 160shaders was also rumored to be a 5SIMD approach.
The amount of SIMDs are important to efficiency due to the batch size.

that's true, but I'm saying actual shader bundles, not stream shaders by ati's count

[AliG]

AliG,
R600 and G80 have the same ALU:TMU -ratio - 4:1.
G80 has *only* 32 TMUs.

whoops my bad, though I'm pretty sure last time I checked the gts g92 has 64 TMUs as it is more than just a die shrink, let me look it up

[AliG]

check out these reviews
http://aphnetworks.com/reviews/asus_...gt_top_512mb/2
in the 8800gt, the card has 56 TMUs, half of the 112 alu

and also here it states that g92's texture power is different from g80's (can do double the work)
http://www.elitebastards.com/cms/ind...1&limitstart=1

[Leeghoofd]

All these Flops, shaders and co don't interest me at all, I want FPS numbers in games... both companies impressed us with high technological stuff, one went that way the red team the other way... yet in games all that marketing crap wasn't really giving conclusive facts in gaming... it's all nice on paper but does it deliver ?

I just want a decent increase in performance over the current cards if not they can put it back in the freezer... be it GT200 or RV700... I just buy the fastest card at that time

[Shocker003]

All these Flops, shaders and co don't interest me at all, I want FPS numbers in games... both companies impressed us with high technological stuff, one went that way the red team the other way... yet in games all that marketing crap wasn't really giving conclusive facts in gaming... it's all nice on paper but does it deliver ?

I just want a decent increase in performance over the current cards if not they can put it back in the freezer... be it GT200 or RV700... I just buy the fastest card at that time

+1 Leeghoofd . All we need is not (Alus, flops, aa, ab, cc, yy, zz) technological mombo jombo . We need good kickars......e vga cards. Ati or Nvidia which ever company that comes up with the bomb, i will be spending my hard earned bucks on them. Moreover i like that X2 idea in these new cards, cos i don´t think i will ever build an sli or crossfire rig. How long will the HD-4000 wafer be? I hope it will fit in a normal mid tower.

[AliG]

hd 4000 wafer? What are you talking about? The wafer's size affects the yields, not how big the card will be. The die size won't really make much of a difference either since they can only get so big before they're too expensive to produce. The thing that makes the biggest difference is how complex the pcb is (for instance, that of the original r600 was extremely complex due to the 512bit memory and thus was very large) which also includes the power supply and the amount of memory on board.

[Shocker003]

hd 4000 wafer? What are you talking about? The wafer's size affects the yields, not how big the card will be. The die size won't really make much of a difference either since they can only get so big before they're too expensive to produce. The thing that makes the biggest difference is how complex the pcb is (for instance, that of the original r600 was extremely complex due to the 512bit memory and thus was very large) which also includes the power supply and the amount of memory on board.

Sorry i mean the PCB, how long will it be, or do we equally be shopping for new cases

[AliG]

Shouldn't be that much different from the 3870 to the 4870, all there is a larger die, pcb should be very similar since there aren't any big architectural changes and the memory bus is the same

As for the gt200, well no one's quite sure because there aren't any firm rumors out yet, but if the 512bit memory is true (which it may due to how powerful its supposed to be) then it could end up being quite large. The die for one will be huge and will require a very high quality power supply, I wouldn't be surprised if its longer than the 8800ultra.

And for the r700, that's a hard one to say because the positioning of the chips and xfire bridge could make a very substantial difference in length (just look at the gddr4 and gddr3 3870x2 pictures, at least an inch difference). But I'd be willing to bet around the same size of the 3870x2 gddr3 since the rv770 dies are a bit larger and its supposed to have 1gb memory per gpu

[Origin_Unknown]

And for the r700, that's a hard one to say because the positioning of the chips and xfire bridge could make a very substantial difference in length (just look at the gddr4 and gddr3 3870x2 pictures, at least an inch difference). But I'd be willing to bet around the same size of the 3870x2 gddr3 since the rv770 dies are a bit larger and its supposed to have 1gb memory per gpu

isnt the gddr4 version only an inch of so shorter due to the fact it taller?

[AliG]

a bit more than an inch, which can make all the difference. That's exactly why I say the positioning of the of the gpus, memory and xfire bridge could mean everything on the r700 (in terms of lenght). I mean look at the weirdo 3850 x3 thingy asus is building, they managed to put gpus on both sides and thus the thing isn't 1.5' long.

Either way, home many people run into trouble with height compared to length? Unless if you are planning on putting a high-end, monstrous heat releasing, large gpu in a shuttle case (which would be a bad idea due to how little airflow the case would have), height will never be an issue. Most cases offer at least 2 inches of clearance from the top of the standard gpu anyways

[drjunk]

http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?op...=6784&Itemid=1

Looks like we might be seeing it shortly.

[Yeknom]

Bah, Fudzilla. Better source pl0x?

[AliG]

Actually I would agree that we will be seeing the r700 cards around June. The cards taped out wayyyy back in like January or something like that. Multiple sites confirmed it and ati has said they are planning for a q2 launch if I remember properly.

All that we're waiting on is gddr5 at this point, which is in the final testing stages right now. So yeah, I'd say June sounds about right

[LordEC911]

that's true, but I'm saying actual shader bundles, not stream shaders by ati's count

That isn't how you count them nor how you put them in a ratio...

and also here it states that g92's texture power is different from g80's (can do double the work)
http://www.elitebastards.com/cms/ind...1&limitstart=1

At half the quality...

[largon]

At half the quality...

Duh.
At the same quality.

[whocaresbg]

RV770XT cooler exposed ?

http://forums.vr-zone.com/showthread.php?t=261753

" RV770XT will use GDDR5 and digital power supply, can be seen from the radiator size, GDDR5 relative GDDR3 fever higher than many. "

[NH|Delph1]

Bah, Fudzilla. Better source pl0x?

Well, I said late May two days ago (HERE) if that's worth anything to you.

//Andreas

[AliG]

RV770XT cooler exposed ?

http://forums.vr-zone.com/showthread.php?t=261753

" RV770XT will use GDDR5 and digital power supply, can be seen from the radiator size, GDDR5 relative GDDR3 fever higher than many. "

dude that looks awefully similar to the old 2900xt cooler...

[Papu]

dude that looks awefully similar to the old 2900xt cooler...

and the 2900 cooler looked like the x1900 cooler and 3870 , they all look very similar.

[Origin_Unknown]

that cooler looks quite short!

also its interesting from the nordichardware link that ATi are planning on releasing a GDDR3 version before the GDDR5

[whocaresbg]

also its interesting from the nordichardware link that ATi are planning on releasing a GDDR3 version before the GDDR5

Because the GDDR5 memory is in final testing stage . I think that AMD will release only "Performance" RV770's part in May, equipped with GDDR3 memory and Flagship parts RV770XT&R700 with GDDR5 will come later at Computex time probably .

[trinibwoy]

At half the quality...

[STaRGaZeR]

and the 2900 cooler looked like the x1900 cooler and 3870 , they all look very similar.

Similar? No man, this is the same as 2900XT, in design and visuals. x1900 and 3870 are not... That (copper?) block with those heatpipes is a 2900XT exact copy.