Official MSI P7N Diamond (780i) Discussion/Review/Overclock/Guide/BIOS Thread

[theYipster]

PCI-E 2.0 shouldn't make a difference. I have to double check the manual, but it may be that the white PCI-E slot is fed from the south-bridge, such that data between the two cards has to transfer over the hyper-transport link.

Still, I don't think this matters, as on my system I score 18,300 on 3DMark and performance in games is equal or better to what they were on the 680i using the same components.

[theYipster]

Phard,

On a whim, try a GTL REF around 30-35 and see if that makes a difference. We're still not quite sure what the setting for GTL REF actually relates to, but if it's microvolts and not percentage to another voltage as we had thought, then 30-35 would be in line with what people are setting on the references boards and on the Striker II Formula.

Bonne chance!

[loonym]

Still, I don't think this matters, as on my system I score 18,300 on 3DMark and performance in games is equal or better to what they were on the 680i using the same components.

I too found an increase although not quite as dramatic as that posted by xraymtb for obvious reasons but a full 5% with all other things being equal except the slot change. It's not a huge difference but it could be the difference to being #1 or 2 on orb for 7800gt or being #6 or 7.

This is cards at stock in slot 1 and 3

And in 1 and 2 still stock no cpu changes made

A full 5% increase (or more?) just by slot change matters to me and I think also to others.

[theYipster]

Hmm, interesting. It's probably a result of both cards being on the NB vs one on the NB and one on the SB. I'm not sure if I'm going to go through the hassle of switching to test for myself, since compared to the 680i I saw no loss in performance (plus I have that X-Fi installed.) Btw, Loonym and xray, what BIOS are you using?

[loonym]

I'm still on .P05... I moved the xfi to the 16x slot 3 and my pci-e raid card to #4

[theYipster]

Loonym,

If you would indulge us, could you perhaps swap back to the stock BIOS or 1.1B4 and see how that affects your 3DMark 06 score with one card in the white slot? I've seen that a lot of people are having issues with video drivers when using the P05 BIOS, and it may be that this BIOS incorrectly configures or manages the PCI-E or HT buses.

[edo]

hi guys, i decided to sell my Maximus Formula and buy a 780i to make a SLI with mu 8800gt

Do you suggest me P7n over XFX reference (but 6 phase power) and over Asus asus p5n-t ?

Maybe p7n has more quality, even in Oc, i can find @ 232€

Does msi p7n any particular problem ? will be q6600 and corsair twinx pc6400 ver 6.2 cl4 ( i have 4 modules of 1gb) good for this board?

thank you for reply

[theYipster]

I'm confused... When you are running with two or four sticks, you can't post? Or is that you believe you are running single channel when it is supposed to run in dual channel?

Video card RAM can't be set into any mode, and if everything is running correctly then it should behave completely independently. However, it may be that something is screwy with your card, causing errors elsewhere in the system. If you can, try your card in another machine and see if what happens.

[x-built-Stan]

Ash,

I had a similar issue when I first installed my video card. I seated the video card and when I mounted it to the case, it poped out slightly. It was not even noticable. Reseating the card and adjuecting the retaining bracket solved the problem. If willing please try the following:

1) Unplug the unit. Very important.
2) Remove all but 2 mem sticks {CPU, Y, N, Y, N}
3) Remove all but 1 video card - blue slot closest to CPU.
4) Pop out the CMOS battery to reset the CMOS. Move the small tab on the right side on the battery to the right. It will pop out easily.
5) Replace the battery after 10 seconds, Push down firmly until it seats. The unit should now be set to the factory settings. Returning to the factory settings will eliminate any possible configuration errors in the bios.
6) Plug in and power on the unit. Watch the hard disk access light. When the light is flashing the unit is booting up. If you get no video signal, power off and re-seat the video card. Try again. It may take a couple of attempts.
7) If the HDD access light is on steady, then the unit is not posting indicating a hardware problem.

Finally, Check the beep codes when the system boots. I posted the beep codes a while back. You should get a single long beep indicating a good post. Note that the single long beep may be followed by a barely audible "tink" (not beep) for each USB socket (not device attached) in use on the unit.

Hope you find this helpful.

[x-built-Stan]

Yipster,

I started a project last week to build a surface stability map of the v1.0 bios.
Basically, I've been setting the CPU GTL (Y-axis) and FSB terminator (X-axis) and running OCCT. The z-axis is a stability precentage based on a 30 minute OCCT run and computed as follows:

Stability = (Test Duration - Run time to CRASH) *100 / Run Time to CRASH

Where Test Duration = 1800s (30 Minutes) and
Run Time to Crash = the time reamining in OCCT when a crash occurs (in seconds)

A test that runs for 30 minutes achieves a 100% score. A BSOD or failure to post receives a 0% score.

I'm about half way through the first surface map. It should be interesting to see how these to settings interact with respect to stability. I'll post the results sometime around the end of the week.

[Family man 72]

Wow! Thank you for the thorough response. Here is what I have so far...



Question 1: What RAM vendors & models have you tried, and what DIMM positions have you tried?


1x Patriot Extreme Performance 4GB(2 x 2GB) DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Single Channel Desktop Memory
2x Patriot Extreme Performance 4GB(2 x 2GB) DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory
1x G.SKILL 8GB(4 x 2GB)DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Quad Channel Kit Desktop Memory
2x Crucial Ballistix 4GB(2 x 2GB) DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory


Below is a summary of what I've tried in terms of slot population with all brands:
__________________________________________________ __________________________________
Ram Slots Ram Total Results
G G O O
[1][2][3][4]
Y N N N 2GB (single channel mode) =Bios posts, Vista boots and runs fully
Y Y N N 4GB (single channel mode) =Bios posts, Vista boots and runs fully
Y Y Y N 6GB (single channel mode) =Bios posts, Vista Crash Bluescreen
Y Y Y Y 8GB (dual channel mode) =System on, Black screen no video signal
Y N Y N 4GB (dual channel mode) =System on, Black screen no video signal
N Y N Y 4GB (dual channel mode) =System on, Black screen no video signal

__________________________________________________ __________________________________

Point 2: If you have four DIMMS installed, they should each be running at dual channel speeds. However, if each DIMM is a 2 gig stick, for a total of 8 gigs installed on the board, you might need to bump up the North Bridge voltage to achieve stability. 8 gigs is possible, but as on any desktop motherboard, it can be taxing on the NB. As such, you may need to manually adjust voltages before your system can successfully boot and remain stable.

@ 8gb ram, I tried increasing the NB voltages up one and two clicks up. I am not sure how much voltage would be enough or too much in this case since MSI shows how much I increased in voltage, rather than actual voltage.
__________________________________________________ __________________________________


Point 3: Standard PC-6400 DDR2 RAM is designed to run at 1.85v. Performance RAM, which can either be PC-6400 RAM with tighter timings, or RAM designed to run faster than PC-6400 / 800mhz, may require a higher default voltage in order to boot and maintain stability. Be sure to set your RAM voltage manually to your manufacturer's spec.
Question 2: What are your BIOS settings for RAM? Please list voltages and timings.

I inserted one stick in dimm 1, booted to bios, and set the voltage to the manufacturer's 2.2v.
Timings were set to 4-4-4-12 @ 800MHz.
I then inserted all 4 sticks and resulted in same “System on, Black screen no video signal”
All four ram sticks are 100% functional.

__________________________________________________ __________________________________
Question 3: What tool are you using to determine whether or not your RAM is running in dual channel mode? If possible, please post a screenshot of the information and/or benchmark.

The Bios screen post shows the total ram and the screen posts stating for example “(Single Channel Mode).”
All ram modules tried so far have individually passed MEMTEST86's testing.

__________________________________________________ __________________________________
It may be that your board is defective, but before you look towards an RMA, it's important that you verify the basics.

I already had the first board replaced via RMA, this board has no current defects. All other parts have been verified and are 100% functional as well. I know the problem is in the Bios settings but MSI's limited manual and personnel information on the board has not helped.


_____________________
MSI P7N DIAMOND
Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 G0 ES @ 2.4MHz Stock Voltages
ASUS 8800GT 1GB ram
8GB Crucial Ballistix 800MHz @ 4-4-4-12 800MHz 2.2v (all sticks functional)
Maxtor 160GB SATAII
KingWin ABT-1000MA1S ATX 1000W
64Vista Ultimate

My MSI P7N Platinum didn't boot to Vista with 4GB ram. After I installed this kb929777:http://support.microsoft.com/kb/929777 I added another 2GB and now it's working fine with 4x1GB.

[theYipster]

Yipster,

I started a project last week to build a surface stability map of the v1.0 bios.
Basically, I've been setting the CPU GTL (Y-axis) and FSB terminator (X-axis) and running OCCT. The z-axis is a stability precentage based on a 30 minute OCCT run and computed as follows:

Stability = (Test Duration - Run time to CRASH) *100 / Run Time to CRASH

Where Test Duration = 1800s (30 Minutes) and
Run Time to Crash = the time reamining in OCCT when a crash occurs (in seconds)

A test that runs for 30 minutes achieves a 100% score. A BSOD or failure to post receives a 0% score.

I'm about half way through the first surface map. It should be interesting to see how these to settings interact with respect to stability. I'll post the results sometime around the end of the week.

That sounds great X-Built-Stan. I look forward to your results. Btw, which version of OCCT are you using? The new version (2.0.0.a) has a stronger CPU stability test based upon Prime95's small FFT algorithm.

Also, Aaron Yuri (the board mod at MSI) just received his P7N and will be tinkering as well. Hopefully we'll get final confirmation on what the integer-settings refer (and whether or not they all use the same metric.) My bet is that FSB VTT and GTL REF are either percentages added or subtracted to a mother voltage (you're theory,) or that they're microvolts (like on the Striker II Formula.)

[theYipster]

Hmm, the fact that the same issue has happened on two boards, and that you have tested four sets of RAM each suggests to me that your video card may be at fault. I see that it's a non-standard 1 gig model. Unfortunately I don't know much about it, or if it can present compatibility issues with certain setups. I would consider what X-Built says -- that may be the issue. Otherwise I would search for people with issues concerning your video card and see if anyone has a similar problem.

[edo]

hi guys, i decided to sell my Maximus Formula and buy a 780i to make a SLI with mu 8800gt

Do you suggest me P7n over XFX reference (but 6 phase power) and over Asus asus p5n-t ?

Maybe p7n has more quality, even in Oc, i can find @ 232€

Does msi p7n any particular problem ? will be q6600 and corsair twinx pc6400 ver 6.2 cl4 ( i have 4 modules of 1gb) good for this board?

thank you for reply

up.

[edo]

so as i read, there could be problems with 4x1gb ?

[theYipster]

Edo,

Please do not bump posts on this thread. It isn't a for-sale board.

The P7N in my opinion is the best 780i board on the market. It can OC easily and has far better components than the reference boards which should result in significantly improved reliability. Remember that the P7N Power Phase design is dual-phase. It's actually more robust than the 6 phase design used on the reference board.

[edo]

thank you for reply first of all.

Yes that's not a for-sale thread, but, i asked for tech info, and there's no better thread than the owners one

do you mean dual-4phase , 8 phase total, like asus right ?

what about 4 sticks of 1 gb ?

[theYipster]

Edo,

We're all enthusiasts here and none of us work for MSI. We try to answer all technical questions, but please understand that no one is bound or required to answer them in any set amount of time. Bumping posts, especially when they are only 3 hours apart, is not what I would consider appropriate for this thread.

Anyway, it's a dual four phase design which is designed to match or exceed the robustness of ASUS's 8-phase system. Both MSI and ASUS's power phase design are considerably better than that used on the reference boards.

I haven't tested four 1 gig sticks, although I can't imagine them being a problem. Search this thread as well as the threads at forum.msi.com.tw for people using 4x1 gig setups and any issues they may have. Forum signatures are great place to look.

Thanks.

[edo]

theYipster,

I know you all are enthusiasts, we are on XS forum and not MSI
Sorry for bumping ( i think you mean "quoting" ) , anyway my post would be never noticed and like in others thread i think is not out of regulament, sorry anyway.

I got all information i need

Thanks.

[xraymtb]

Xraymtb,

It is very strange that you experienced a performance loss when using the white slot for the second card. What bridge cable are you using between the two cards and have you made any changes to the BIOS regarding the PCI-E bus?

I am using the standard bridge cable that came with the board. When I set up with the white slot I had to use the longer cable as the short one was a few mm too short.

In my case, I have no need for the PCI slot and I have set Rivatuner to keep my gfx temps to a reasonable level so I will be keeping the cards in the recommended slots anyway. I am also using the original shipping bios if that makes a difference.

[x-built-Stan]

Edo,

I run 4x1GB dual channel in my rig. See signature. No problems here.

[x-built-Stan]

Xray,

Are you using two bridge straps? When I put my cards (2) in SLI, I originally only had 1 bridge strap installed. After I got lousy 3DMark scores, I checked the MSI manual and diagram showed 2 straps. Adding the second strap got my scores up.

FYI: both cards were installed in the Blue PCi-E slots.

[theYipster]

X-built,

Interesting. By how much did your scores go up?

[edo]

Edo,

I run 4x1GB dual channel in my rig. See signature. No problems here.

really thank you

[x-built-Stan]

X-built,

Interesting. By how much did your scores go up?

I don't recall exactly. I do remember that it struck me as though I was running in single card mode. That is why I checked the manual.

Xray,

I do recall that I also had trouble getting the SLI mode enabled in the nVidia control panel after I had made some hardware changes. I had to set the SLI mode, reboot, and then re-install the video drivers. You might want to try that also.