Official MSI P7N Diamond (780i) Discussion/Review/Overclock/Guide/BIOS Thread

[theYipster]

Well, at least now you have something to look forward to Ah, the joys of being first with new technology.

[andrew2004gto]

Hey has anyone found a pencil mod for the vdrop cuz im droping about a 0.05 and its cause me to have high volts to keep stable

[loonym]

I really think they must be very close to releasing a new official bios to address whatever issues are currently present and to support the new wave of cpus from intel.

[BKA]

I really think they must be very close to releasing a new official bios to address whatever issues are currently present and to support the new wave of cpus from intel.

Do tell, do tell. Any insight there loonym?

[loonym]

I guess just really call it a hunch. I've received a couple e-mails from MSI support taiwan asking me to load certain bios' and test specific thing like boot priority, eist functionality, seemingly silly stuff, but it feels good to know they aren't forgetting us and I'm sure I'm not the only guinae pig they are approaching in this way.

[BKA]

That's cool. Hopefully by this weekend so I can play around with it. I sold my E8400 so the Q9300 will be staying in for now. Although I have a Celeron E1200 that I can use if needed.

[gamin]

hi guys. first post here after reading from you for weeks. I just built my system and wanted to know if one of you could tell me which are the best settings I should use in the bios (see my sig for specs). for now, I'm using the load default settings except for the RAM which I had to put manually at recommanded timings and voltage by crucial. I don't want to overclock anything right now, I still have to learn a lot about it before trying. all that I want is to be sure I'm using the right and faster settings available. also shall I upgrade to 1.1b04 or perf 05 bios if I don't plan to overclock now ?

thanks in advance for your help

[loonym]

gamin, If your not overclocking and everything is stable and working to your satisfaction I feel you should be happy. Very nice rig too

[Lutefisk]

Hello All,

Your thread helped convince me to migrate from an MSI Neo2 FR to the P7N Diamond. Overall, I would say I'm quite pleased with the beefier board.

I have, however, a nagging graphics problem: 3dmark06 skips a few frames every couple of seconds... just a little hop. My score has also lowered from about 13000 to just above 10000. All my hardware is the same aside from the new board and 3dMark06 was silky smooth with the Neo2. I've tried two drivers, 169.02 and 169.25. Also ran a diagnostic through rivatuner and everything seems okay.... getting a x16 PCI bus. I've even played around with the "PCI Latency Timer" under the advanced BIOS features to no avail. In fact 3dmark06 wouldn't load under the highest setting, 128.

I'm still running the shipping bios on the motherboard- v1.0. Is there a bios update that addresses graphical hiccups like this?

From reading this forum, it seems you guys know more about what's happening on the ground than the tech guys a MSI. Any clues about how I can proceed?

Thanks much for your reply. This is an extension of my first build and I'm still learning every day.

[gamin]

gamin, If your not overclocking and everything is stable and working to your satisfaction I feel you should be happy.

thanks for your reply loonym. so I'll stay that way for now. btw, do you have any advice in a good article/place explaining overclocking ? I mean I'm totally newbie in this, and I really need to learn from the beginning before trying.

Very nice rig too

thanks for that

[loonym]

thanks for your reply loonym. so I'll stay that way for now. btw, do you have any advice in a good article/place explaining overclocking ? I mean I'm totally newbie in this, and I really need to learn from the beginning before trying.



thanks for that

So far this thread is about the best advice I've seen. Some very good testing being done by these guys.

[gamin]

yes, I know, but I have to admit I don't understand everything (told you, a real newbie in overclocking ). what I need is a step by step tutorial or something like that, where I can learn each step before trying to reach the max of my cpu... if only MSI would have documented the manual more completely...

EDIT: I took some time to read and understand theYipster's update#1 on opening message, and I guess I've understood a little now... gonna give a try and post my results (if I don't burn or break everything of course... I'd be happy if I can reach and have a stable CPU at 3.6/3.8Ghz for now). don't expect results 'til next weekend, I unfortunately have a lot to do at my job this week

[theYipster]

Ahoy hoy,

It's been several weeks since I've updated the first post, but I'll be putting up new information today (along with guidelines to OC the E8400.) For an early BIOS, 1.1B4 and P05 have shown to be quite good at supporting demanding OCs, but clearly they still have lingering issues (particularly with 45nm chips.) I concur with Loonym that an update is forthcoming. Keep in mind, however, that the reference boards have been on BIOS P03 for some time now, and that the non-reference boards often get BIOS development cues from the reference ones. After the 790i hoopla settles down (and hopefully it will quickly...) expect to see this and other 780i boards continue their march towards BOIS maturity.

As for my own endeavors, I'm sitting pretty at the moment at 3.6ghz. The P7N has gone into my main rig, which I recently reformatted with Vista SP1. The limited time I've had with my rig these past couple weeks has gone into getting my software, mp3, games, etc. back up and running, so I've paid little attention to my OC efforts. I'm looking forward to picking them up again once we see new a BIOS from MSI.

Andrew2004gto,

I'd love to have a pencil mod, but I don't think I'm going to be the one to find it. If anyone is up for the task, many of us would be eternally grateful!

Lutefisk,

That's a very interesting problem and it’s the first I've heard of it. I'm running two GTXs and I haven't experienced any frame hiccups or a loss of 3DMark score. (Hit around 18300 in XP, which is up about 500 points from my 680i.) Try updating to the latest BIOS, 1.1B4, and see if that resolves it. Two questions: Are you running SLI, and which slot is your graphics card in?

Ash,

From what I've seen the board is pretty easy going with memory, although I do recall people having issues with certain Corsair models on the MSI forum. Here are a few points to consider, and a few questions for you to answer. Please reply with your findings so that we hopefully help you further.

Point 1: MSI colors their DIMM slots differently than other manufactures, and in a way that many would classify as incorrect. In order for RAM to work in dual channel mode, the DIMMS can’t be set in adjacent slots. If you are running with two DIMMS, the best slots to use is the one furthest away from the processor and the one that is second closest to the processor. If installed correctly, one DIMM will be in a green slot and the other in an orange slot, with one and only one slot in between them empty. This can trip up many builders, as every other Core 2 board on the planet (except those from MSI) colors DIMMS by channel and not by physical pair.

Point 2: If you have four DIMMS installed, they should each be running at dual channel speeds. However, if each DIMM is a 2 gig stick, for a total of 8 gigs installed on the board, you might need to bump up the North Bridge voltage to achieve stability. 8 gigs is possible, but as on any desktop motherboard, it can be taxing on the NB. As such, you may need to manually adjust voltages before your system can successfully boot and remain stable.

Point 3: Standard PC-6400 DDR2 RAM is designed to run at 1.85v. Performance RAM, which can either be PC-6400 RAM with tighter timings, or RAM designed to run faster than PC-6400 / 800mhz, may require a higher default voltage in order to boot and maintain stability. Be sure to set your RAM voltage manually to your manufacturer's spec.

Question 1: What RAM vendors & models have you tried, and what DIMM positions have you tried?

Question 2: What are your BIOS settings for RAM? Please list voltages and timings.

Question 3: What tool are you using to determine whether or not your RAM is running in dual channel mode? If possible, please post a screenshot of the information and/or benchmark.

It may be that your board is defective, but before you look towards an RMA, it's important that you verify the basics. Please post your responses to these questions, and we can go from there. Also note that there is no such thing as DDR2 RAM running in quad channel. With four sticks installed or with two sticks installed in the correct positions, your RAM should be running at dual channel speeds. With an odd number of sticks installed, RAM will be forced to run single channel. This is a design limitation of DDR RAM.

Gamin,

Welcome to the community. I've found the P7N to be a very good overclocker, but unfortunately it's not as easy to manage as some other boards. This is due in part to the particularly cryptic voltage settings in MSI's BIOS, which we (and MSI's forum moderators) are still trying to figure out completely. In the mean time, our successes have come largely from trial and error, and while some find mastering a difficult BIOS to be a fun challenge (ask anyone with a DFI LanParty,) it can indeed turns others away. My only advice is to stay with it and to stay with us, and I'm sure you'll find success (barring any BIOS incompatibilities or hardware defects.) My own opinion is that a tricky BIOS is a small price to pay for a board that avoids the myriad issues found with the 680i and 780i reference models. I've been burnt by them twice, and I'm very wary of going back now.

The other impedance to a strait and easy OC with this board is that the enthusiast community of P7N owners is quite small (but growing,) especially compared to the reference boards, which seem to particularly attract people who are looking for high end hardware but aren't necessarily old hats at PC tweaking and tuning. As such, there is a wealth of information on hitting that easy OC with the reference boards (P0wner's guide is probably the best at the moment,) but little outside this thread for ours. You should indeed read P0wner's guide, as well as some other general Core 2 Overclocking guides. These won't apply directly to managing the P7N BIOS, but they do cover the basics very well and you can bring over much of the information they provide. Of course, as more and more people choose this board, I hope that we build a community (and information library) to match those of other nForce models. That's my goal with this thread.

To start you off, here are a few basic guidelines. I'm not going cover everything a proper guide will, but hopefully this can get you oriented. This may be a bit too general for your needs, but I thought I’d post it here just in case it helps you or others new to OCing.

1. As any guide will tell you early on, the "art" of overclocking is to run a component out of spec--particularly faster than its rated stock performance. Due to the way chips are manufactured, overclocking has been a cherished hobby of many for some time. Yet due to fantastic architectural and yield properties, the Core 2 has heralded in a golden age of OCing. 50-75% OCs can be had easily with good air and water, and insane 100-200%+ OCs have been achieved by some of the famous LN2 masters here at XS. The trick is to find the right motherboard that will support your OC ventures. The "experiment" with the P7N is to find a Core 2 SLI board that a) OCs well and b) is reliable and lasts. So far, the P7N is proving itself up to the task, but at the expense of a tricky and still (quite arguably) immature BIOS.

2. There are two ways to OC a Core 2 chip, but unless your chip retails for $1000+, you'll only have one. On Extreme chips, the user can adjust the processor's multiplier (more on that in point 3) for an easy one setting OC, barring any necessary voltage adjustments. For everyone else, the processor must be overclocked by making adjustments to FSB speed. These adjustments will also affect the speed at which your RAM runs, unless you set RAM to manual control and keep it at a constant setting. Since your sig' suggests you have an E8400, it's on to point 3.

3. Base FSB speed and the relationship between processor, FSB, and RAM: This is the key to overclocking non-Extreme Core 2 setups. The operational speeds of your processor, FSB, and RAM are all based off this base FSB speed--each by a different multiplier. (Note that while you can also overclock your PCI-E bus and graphic cards, these are handled independently.)

** Your E8400 ships with a default multiplier of 9.5, and its stock speed of 3.16ghz is obtained by multiplying 9.5 by it's target / stock base FSB speed of 333mhz. (Note that older 65nm chips have a base FSB speed of 266mhz, while some lower end Allendale and Pentium E chips have a stock base FSB speed of 200mhz.)

** Your rated FSB speed, like all Core 2 FSBs, is quad pumped. Hence, the FSB speeds you see advertised on the box (and the speed you set in the BIOS for FSB) is 4x the base FSB. As such, a 333mhz base FSB is 1333mhz rated / quad pumped. This is the default supported FSB speed of the P7N.

** Your rated RAM speed is 2x the base FSB speed when set to a 1:1 divider, such that RAM running 1:1 with a base FSB of 333mhz runs at 667mhz. Note that on an nForce system, you can set your RAM independently of your FSB, and even on Intel chipsets, you can change this divider. However, most recommend using this 1:1 divider when overclocking for two reasons. First, running 1:1 will have your RAM run only as fast as it needs to in order to maintain performance, and not more. Some point out that running RAM faster than FSB results in no noticeable performance gain on a Core 2 system, but whether this is true also depends on the chipset and motherboard used. Second, on nForce chipsets particularly, many find that they can best maximize their RAM's bandwidth and latency when running 1:1 with the FSB. This is why you'll see so many guides stress the importance of running RAM 1:1 when overclocking a 680i or 780i board.

4. To overclock, you simply raise the base FSB speed. This will in turn raise your processor's speed (and your RAM's speed if you're keeping a 1:1 relationship, but as of now you'll have to maintain this relationship manually in the BIOS, as explained in the front post.) The best way to overclock is to raise base FSB speed in small increments (like 20mhz.) Then reboot, test for stability, and repeat until you've hit a stability wall. Note that since the P7N BIOS accepts a quad-pumped FSB setting, you will want to times your increments by 4, so if you are raising your base FSB is 20mhz steps, you'll want to adjust the FSB setting in the BIOS by 80mhz.

5. Stability: Sooner or later you will find that you have OC'd past a stable setting. Assuming you haven't reached your OC limits (outlined in final point 6,) you can then go back to the BIOS and raise your processor's voltage to raise the stability ceiling. Raise vCore by one or two increments until your stable, then you can go back and raise FSB some more, repeating the process until you've reach one of the two OC limits described next. Note that after a certain threshold, you'll have to consider the voltages of other motherboard components (such as vNB or the GTL reference voltages) to maintain stability. This is where OCing on the P7N gets tricky due to the cryptic BIOS, but you likely won’t have to worry much about these settings until you’re past a 25-40% OC. When you’re at a point where secondary voltages are preventing stability, come back and review what settings others have used to get their chips stable.

6. Limits: The biggest limiting factor to your overclock is heat. Raising your CPU's operating frequency increases its operating temperature, and raising the voltage will increase its temperature doubly-so. As such, it's important to have good cooling when overclocking, and it’s important to run stress and stability tests to ensure that a) your processor is stable and b) that it doesn't get too hot. On a Wolfdale, you should look to keep core temps below 75c, although temp monitors aren't known to be accurate with Wolfdale CPUs yet. The second limit you need to consider, especially with your Wolfdale, is a maximum safe voltage. Previous generation Conroe and Kentsfield CPUs can withstand a lot more voltage than a Wolfdale or Yorkfield, and you will have to keep this in mind. Wolfdales run cool, and if you are shooting for a big OC, you will likely find that you can raise voltages past a safe level before temperatures rise past theirs. Early on, the consensus for a safe 24/7 Wolfdale / Yorkfield voltage limit was 1.45v, but now some are suggesting less. If you can achieve 4ghz-4.5ghz below or at around 1.4v, you'll be in good shape.

Note that while I've covered some of the basics of Core 2 overclocking, I haven't discussed some of the necessary prerequisites, like turning off Speedstep or the like, nor any of the pitfalls, such as the famous nForce FSB hole. You can get this information easily from any Core 2 OC guide. I also haven't touched upon what software you'll want to use to stress test and monitor temps, but that information can be found in many corners around here. Hopefully though, this will get you on your way

Good luck and keep us posted on your results.

[gamin]

GEEEEZ !!! that's what I call an Answer !!! (notice Answer, with A capitalized). I'm gonna be busy for the next 2 weeks with all the info you gave me, I thank you for that I'm gonna take time to understand everything before trying (already said : newbie here). this is not my first attempt in building my own computer (17th to be exact), but this is the first time I took so many time for choosing and buying my components, and this is also the first time I build such a tricky system. P7N diamond is my choice, definately what I wanted and needed, so there's no way that I return it and buy another one. to tell you the truth, this my first non Asus mobo. I was a little scared after reading all the posts at MSI forum with people getting problem from this component or this other one etc... all I can say : study everything, read a lot and choose the right components. I wanna keep this computer for the next 3 years, so it deserve right stuff, and no cheap components. my computer booted perfectly the first time and I didn't get any issues for now (running XP32 SP2). I'm gonna give a try to XP64 and vista, but I'm not in a hurry. I first have to learn "the beast" completely.

things I didn't say about my computer is the cooling system. I'm using a Lancool K7 tower (alu), and I replaced the fans with 3 Noctua NF-S12 1200 (yes, I want it silent). for the CPU, I choosed the NH-U12P. all I can say is this is definately silent, and performing good cooling. I'll post pictures if I can. so, about your advice on a good cooling system, I think it's all right.

the only thing I don't get for now is which bios am I supposed to use ? stay with 1.0, P05 or 1.14 beta ? I guess 1.0 if I don't overclock, but which one if I wanna try ?

many many thanks for your post and for all your explanations. I'll try to learn, and I promise to post my result in here.

[theYipster]

No problem, and best of luck with your efforts As for the BIOS, it's always best to see how far you can go with what you have before upgrading. If you choose to upgrade, you might consider trying both P05 and 1.1B4, although most have found 1.1B4 to provide for best results.

Btw, while this is not an OS thread and I by no means want to start a discussion on this topic, you will no doubt find Vista x64 to be a better option than XP-64 for a home / gaming rig. I would suggest forgoing XP-64 all together. Vista x64 has better application and driver support, largely in part because it shares a code-base with Vista 32. (XP-64 is built on Server 2003 and is an entirely different beast compared to XP-32. Support and compatibility is far below XP-32 levels or Vista for that matter.) For instance, if you use iTunes or own an iPod or iPhone, you will find native 64-bit application and driver support for Vista x64, and no support for XP-64.

[gamin]

are you reading in me or what ??? yes, I'm using iTunes for my iPod... so, event if it's not what we are here to talk about, I'll follow your opinion and skip XP64 for Vista64. thanks again

[theYipster]

Hi all,

I updated the first post with new information, including E8400 settings, tips on NB cooling and software to use, as well as a blurb on two-card SLI.

[theYipster]

Ash,

For RAM and NB, the BIOS allows you to set an actual voltage. Only with vCore do you set an increased amount. Your RAM should be set to factory specs and NB can be left on auto unless you are overclocking or if using eight gigs causes the system to be unstable.

I haven't heard of anyone else having this issue with dual channel mode, and if this is your second board and it does the same thing with all four sets of RAM, then my guess is that the BIOS may not be reporting your RAM settings correctly and that you are indeed running your RAM in dual channel mode.

Install two DIMMS in the position I detailed in my previous post, so that you are running with four gigs. In the BIOS, load optimal defaults and verify that your RAM is set to run at 800mhz. Then in Windows, download Everest (see first post for link) and run the Cache and Latency benchmark. Post a screenshot of the results. This will tell you whether or not you're really running in dual channel.

[loonym]

I'm sorry I can't test this but I think 8gb mem is going to require timings somewhat more relaxed than manufacturer ratings.

[theYipster]

{cp [n][y][n][y] is correct. Try four gigs first at stock settings (set RAM to 2.2v as required) and you won't need to up the NB voltage. Later, once you've verified dual channel mode is working via Everest, you can try 8. Unfortunately I don't know what settings you'll need to get it to work. It might work perfectly w/o adjusting voltages, or as Loonym suggested, you may need to reduce timings in addition to bumping up the NB. For starters though, lets just verify that dual channel mode is working with the 2 DIMMs.

[pacific vortex]

got an issue with the p05 bios...it crashes my vid drivers...tried all nvidia drivers and even the 169.25 dont work...any ideas???in the mean time im gonna remove my sata drivers

[xraymtb]

Hi

Been reading this thread since I got my new P7N and it helped me to get a fairly easy overclock of my Q6600 to 3.6GHz using the suggested settings in post 1. It also seems to need less voltage to the core than the same chip did on an Intel X38 board.

My only issue is the statement that using the second card for SLI in the white slot works ok with no performance loss. I tried this to reduce temps on my main card (which was a success) however I noticed a drop in my 3dMark06 score from 17600 to 13400 and a drop in my Crysis benchmark from 33.5fps to 24fps (1900x1200, High, no AA or AF).

Just worth noting that not every board seems able to run SLI on different slots without losing performance.

[theYipster]

Xraymtb,

It is very strange that you experienced a performance loss when using the white slot for the second card. What bridge cable are you using between the two cards and have you made any changes to the BIOS regarding the PCI-E bus?

[loonym]

That's interesting xraymtb. I haven't tested the difference but I am running my second card in the white slot. I'll try a couple things and post back, thanks for the post.

edit: Could pci-e 2.0 really make that much diff? My cards won't use that but I have some 9600gt coming today.

[phardfr]

Hi All,

First, Thank you to x-built-Stan & theYipster for informations about o/c with the P7N diamoand.

I've got the same problem like pacific vortex with the P05 bios. (BSOD with Vista 32 bits, when loading the video driver and the same with linux when loading proprietary drivers from nvidia) I'm using the 1B4 bios for now.

I could push my Q6600 to 3,5 Ghz, but it's not 100 % stable. (3dmarks06 ok -17348 with 2 GTS 8800-512 SLI, but occt freezes - 2 minutes after the beginning of test, prime95 freezes too after 15 minutes)

My VID is 1.225 (coretemp used) I've tried much much combinations to go to 3.6 Ghz without success. I've never exceeded 75° C in full load @ 3,5 Ghz. I think it will be better to use 450 Mhz FSB with a multiplier of 8, but can't do that with actual bios.

RAM: 800 Mhz (my Rig wont start with ram@1066 Mhz) Timings to AUTO.
Vcore: 1,4 (with from 0,4 to 0,6 vdroop when full load)
Vdimm: 2,10 V
Nb: 1,425
Sb: auto
CPU GTL REF: 65
FSB Term: 25
All AUTO

Any ideas to help me please ? (Sorry for my poor English)