Is Nvidia having trouble acquiring a Intel Common Serial Interface License?

[Donnie27]

Since NV's purpose would be to lock out competition on SLI, they don't have a leg to stand on. Intel's lawyers aren't stupid.

Best post in the thread!

[ghost101]

Since NV's purpose would be to lock out competition on SLI, they don't have a leg to stand on. Intel's lawyers aren't stupid.

Yep, as far as bundling and lock outs go, Intel are completely innocent. What Intel could have done is forced everyone to use intel motherboards and cpus together. This would have huge antitrust implications.

But instead they simply release the best chipsets . And its the fact they cant lock nvidia/amd out of this ensures this level of innovation. If nvidia had any sort of market share in the motherboard market, theyd get in trouble because of their stranghold on the graphics market.

[Donnie27]

Yep, as far as bundling and lock outs go, Intel are completely innocent. What Intel could have done is forced everyone to use intel motherboards and cpus together. This would have huge antitrust implications.

But instead they simply release the best chipsets . And its the fact they cant lock nvidia/amd out of this ensures this level of innovation. If nvidia had any sort of market share in the motherboard market, theyd get in trouble because of their stranghold on the graphics market.

All nVidia is doing is helping AMD indirectly. I didn't want to depend on nVidia and went with a 3870. Even if it isn't the best, it is the best option for INTEL chipsets and I don't want a nVidia chipset anyway. nVidia knows that if they don't have a monopoly on SLI, their prices on their overpriced motherboards get a more realistic price.

[Bobsama]

There's nothing technically different between sli and crossfire, they're the same pci express functionality. What's probable is that Nvidia wrote their drivers to require identifying a nvidia chipset to run, and rather than rewrite their drivers to ignore this requirement, they make vendors buy their chipset instead, which gets the drivers past the nvidia check; it's like old software dongles. They could have added some unecessary hardware process, but it's more likely they're relying on legal and software means to inflicting their nvidia requirement.

Actually they're a little bit different. Yeah they both depend on PCI Express, but they rely on different portions. nVidia locked out the portion that ATI requires for CrossFire and locked out all other chipsets in their drivers.

nVidia only stands to gain by allowing SLI on Intel chipsets.

[RAW-Raptor22]

nVidia only stands to gain by allowing SLI on Intel chipsets.

No they dont. nVidia will sell less motherboard chipsets at a time when they are trying desperately to gain market share. There is no way this would work.

[Blauhung]

No they dont. nVidia will sell less motherboard chipsets at a time when they are trying desperately to gain market share. There is no way this would work.

well if this is true, then they can have fun gaining AMD chipset share

really SLI is going to be a bit limited on Intel platforms anyway. All the performance and mainstream stuff have integrated PCI lanes. What are they gona do? add extra chips on the board that aren't needed for anything and only serve to add power requirements and hamper overclocking?

Nvidia is facing a loosing game and they need to do something friendly for someone.

[Ugly n Grey]

I can't see Nvidia being all that interested (in AMD market share). That fact is they'd be competing head to head with the ATI division for share on that platform and frankly the odds suck considering they want to pull their IGP on every NB crap on a system that may have IGP on CPU in the not so distant future. (Assuming we're talking the mass market segment). The mere thought of where this is all going is confusing, but I know Nvidia is desperately searching for ways to not get locked out.

I dunno. I think they'd love to make a deal with Intel and I don't see why Intel should to be honest. :/

[nox_uk]

serves em (nv) right, & i still think intel should only let nvidia chipsets use 1 core of their cpu's... thats (close enough for sake of arguement, ie not full potential) what nvidia are doing to intel.

Nox

[Anemone]

haha lock all but 1 core That would be pretty fun to watch!

Seriously, Nvidia didn't pay to get rights to make Intel chipsets, did they? Yet they made money selling the chipsets without paying a royalty on the connection.

Now along comes SLI. They say "hey you can't use that tech unless you pay us".

Intel says "you're dreaming"

Nvidia refuses to change their tune, and now they see just what that feels like when the other side treats them the way they treated everyone else.

[Donnie27]

haha lock all but 1 core That would be pretty fun to watch!

Seriously, Nvidia didn't pay to get rights to make Intel chipsets, did they? Yet they made money selling the chipsets without paying a royalty on the connection.

Now along comes SLI. They say "hey you can't use that tech unless you pay us".

Intel says "you're dreaming"

Nvidia refuses to change their tune, and now they see just what that feels like when the other side treats them the way they treated everyone else.

QFT! Why aren't folks seeing this? Do folks here trying to blame Intel have short memories or what?

[lutjens]

I can't wait to see NVidia's balance sheet in a year if Intel is firm in denying a license...those record profit quarters will be a thing of the past. NVidia will be receiving a double whammy...their chipset profits will be in a freefall, as they'll be unable to make chipsets for Intel processors, and they'll be suffering a decline in video card sales due to no SLI on Nehalem (if NVidia doesn't begin permitting SLI on Intel chipsets).

It gives me a warm, fuzzy feeling to think of NVidia's situation in a year (if no license is granted). There is no reason whatsoever why Intel should permit them to build a chipset for Nehalem...and I hope they don't. What is needed now is a competitive ATI...I think many people would snap up a product from ATI that offers comparable performance. The 3870 X2 is promising if driver refinements can be made to enhance Crossfire performance and allow the card to hold it's own against the 9800GX2, which is still a largely unknown quantity.

[Lestat]

nvidia doesnt need chipset sales, their GPU sales are still their bread and butter and still outsell ATi at an ever growing rate.

nvidia could lose their contracts with companies like dell gateway etc etc since they use nvidia SLI boards for their upper end gaming rigs...

[thephenom]

Actually they're a little bit different. Yeah they both depend on PCI Express, but they rely on different portions. nVidia locked out the portion that ATI requires for CrossFire and locked out all other chipsets in their drivers.

nVidia only stands to gain by allowing SLI on Intel chipsets.

Ummm, no.....have you seen the HP blackbird which uses the Asus 680i striker board, you can configure it with SLI or CF. It was ATI/AMD that allowed CF to run on SLI chipset.

What you guys forget is that NV sells chipsets to "complete" their platform. This strategy has worked VERY well. Even though it's probably ATI to blame for not having competitive products for so long until the RV670 and R680. Big SIs and OEMs prefer platforms, (hence the reason why AMD bought ATI to provide a complete platform) so if anything goes wrong, they just talk to 1 vendor instead of being bounced between 2 vendors. Despite the success of RV670 and R680s, from now till late this year, you will still be seeing Yorkfield being paired up with 780i and 790i on SLI platform rather than seeing X38/48 with CF.

[HKPolice]

Actually they're a little bit different. Yeah they both depend on PCI Express, but they rely on different portions. nVidia locked out the portion that ATI requires for CrossFire and locked out all other chipsets in their drivers.

nVidia only stands to gain by allowing SLI on Intel chipsets.

You're a retard. It's well documented that ANY PCIe chipset can run both SLI and CF. There were hacked Forceware drivers that proved it but they're ancient so no one uses them anymore.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...cked+forceware

[Donnie27]

Ummm, no.....have you seen the HP blackbird which uses the Asus 680i striker board, you can configure it with SLI or CF. It was ATI/AMD that allowed CF to run on SLI chipset.

What you guys forget is that NV sells chipsets to "complete" their platform. This strategy has worked VERY well. Even though it's probably ATI to blame for not having competitive products for so long until the RV670 and R680. Big SIs and OEMs prefer platforms, (hence the reason why AMD bought ATI to provide a complete platform) so if anything goes wrong, they just talk to 1 vendor instead of being bounced between 2 vendors. Despite the success of RV670 and R680s, from now till late this year, you will still be seeing Yorkfield being paired up with 780i and 790i on SLI platform rather than seeing X38/48 with CF.

Ummm no Blackbird is great now. If nVidia can't get an Intel license, it becomes an also-ran when Nehalem ships. Sorry, but they're greedy Bas^$%#@s. They want free licenses for other's IP while they want everyone to pay them for their IP. I don't know but that sounds like BS to me.

As Intel launches newer products, nVidia's share will get smaller and smaller. We might get to a point where nVidia becomes VIA back in 2000. Reverse engineering for Intel products and using none Industry standard products with horrible results.

Sure they'll do great in the Discrete Card market. But it's not like ATI/AMD is sucking LOL!

[keiths]

Ummm no Blackbird is great now. If nVidia can't get an Intel license, it becomes an also-ran when Nehalem ships. Sorry, but they're greedy Bas^$%#@s. They want free licenses for other's IP while they want everyone to pay them for their IP. I don't know but that sounds like BS to me.

It's actually worse than that, as nvidia isn't offering any IP, but requiring a fee to allow using an inherent pcie function on their hardware by anyone not nvidia. It's like the toll roads in Texas that have been added to tax payer built roads. It's crap.

[onewingedangel]

Chipset IGP's are going to be gone after the current generation of chipsets, so other than multiple sli lanes what can nvidia really offer? If they surrender sli exclusivity their chipset will at best be the same as intels. So the choice is either surrender sli and make a chipset no one will buy, or keep sli exclusivity and not be able to make an intel chipset. Either way their chipset business is gone.

At least by allowing sli on intel platforms they have the potential to sell more graphics cards, so they don't really have a choice to do anything else.

[keiths]

My problem with nvidia's chipsets is they're power hogs. If they made them to sip power, it'd be a selling point.

[WRC]

My problem with nvidia's chipsets is they're power hogs. If they made them to sip power, it'd be a selling point.

i agree, nvidia chipsets run hotter as well, they're not as experts in designing chipsets since intel know their cpu best. Although intel's design is not much faster (except superpi) they somehow managed to get the best performance/watt

[RAW-Raptor22]

Ummm no Blackbird is great now. If nVidia can't get an Intel license, it becomes an also-ran when Nehalem ships. Sorry, but they're greedy Bas^$%#@s. They want free licenses for other's IP while they want everyone to pay them for their IP. I don't know but that sounds like BS to me.

As Intel launches newer products, nVidia's share will get smaller and smaller. We might get to a point where nVidia becomes VIA back in 2000. Reverse engineering for Intel products and using none Industry standard products with horrible results.

Sure they'll do great in the Discrete Card market. But it's not like ATI/AMD is sucking LOL!

The VIA Apollo 133T chipset was legendary... got Tualatins to 2GHz, the fastest CPUs for many years afterwards. Here's mine on air: http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc?id=166913

(im actually posting this on that pc, lol)

[Nosfer@tu]

nvidia doesnt need chipset sales, their GPU sales are still their bread and butter and still outsell ATi at an ever growing rate.

nvidia could lose their contracts with companies like dell gateway etc etc since they use nvidia SLI boards for their upper end gaming rigs...

Apparently that is what they want.
I se no other reason for it.

[b0bd0le]

why can't someone just hack the drivers again?

i imagine it can't be that hard

and its not like the legality of something stops anything on the internet *cough* piratebay

[BullGod]

You people are all acting like Nvidia is a cornered rat or something. What you fail to see is that they have one BIG option. How about, if it gets real dirty and Intel refuses to let them make any more chipsets, they take a 3bil loan and they buy AMD? And they make their cards AMD exclusive. Who is gonna make cards for the high-end intel systems then? With ATI under their wing and no other real option on the market, what will Intel do then, eh? Make their own? I'm writing this on an all out Intel machine and I can tell you one thing: Intel DO NOT know how to make a decent video card. Can't wait for my GeForce to get back from repairs...

[cadaveca]

Wouldn't happen..that would be creating a monoply and using it to influence another market, IMHO. It;'s not wrong to havea monoply, but using it is such situations would be highly illegal, and would really spell thier doom..hence noone even considering such.

[zerazax]

Drivers have new bit encryption that makes it near impossible iirc