M3A overclocking

[justapost]

Just got home turned off that " Microcode update" as well as the secure virtual machine,but unfortunately the AOD still came up with the green/yellow circle and everest gave memory latency of 156, so I was wrong about the Microcode=
TLB fix. My bad , for some reason I thought it was related. Anyway, switching the AOD circle to red gave the Latency of 65 which is much better.
Also the "unganged" mode let's you configure the 2 IMC separately -2CL's,2trp's
so on. Guess we can use mismatched ram sticks in "unganged" mode now.

Edit*

It seems like turning the "Microcode updating" setting to off -disables the AOD's and/or other software ability to turn the "TLB fix off" judging by the high latencies in Everest,even thou the circle goes yellow/red in AOD.
Sandra's (x11sp1 x64 Edition) mem bandwidth test got a nice bump in "unganged mode" slightly over 10k.

So the microcode update is required to apply the tlb-fix.
Tried Rightmark and I can seen an improvement using unganged now. The improvement is much higher with 1066 that with 800.

Played with memory timings to push the ref HT limit beyond 276MHz (seems to be similar if not equal in unganged mode, tried 272MHz with no problem). So far no luck to get higher with more relaxed timings.

Running with such high ref HT speeds results in no warm restart sometimes, the system works flawless after a cold start.

My mosfet's are hot to the touch @ 220 FSB, 2 120mm front and back in push pull, one 80mm blow hole blowing directly on them. It should be more of an issue at higher FSB speeds, but with phenom pushing 4 cores if they get to hot their going to cause stability problems. For that matter any cpu will tend to destabilize with the mosfet's running to hot.

Not to say that's the only problem, I'm positive lack of vcore is a big part. But it's some thing to look at.

I've been polling the high end over clockers I know and they all agree that on a value based board (especially under water) one of the top suspects in instability is excess mosfet heat.

Your friends are right. If you want to appliy more than ~1,45V 24/7 to the cpu you should buy an high end mobo. But below that voltage temps don't become an issue.
As I have to pay my elictricity bill, I'd buy an better cpu if i need higher clocks.

[crazydiamond]

noob questions here

this will be my first time doin raid, and im trying to slipstream the driver into my windows install disc. im not sure if im supposed to use the amdchipset driver or the raidcontroller. im using this old maximum pc tutorial and it says raid controller, but in the m3a manual when it tells you how to create the floppy for raid it says to put the amdchipset onto the floppy.

well when following that tutorial it says to place the .sys file from the driver in the windows i386 folder or w/e it is. the raid controller driver has a .sys file, but the amd chipset file does not.

im gonna keep reading about it today, but any help would be appreciated. i at least need to know what driver needs to be slipstreamed into the install so i dont need to use a floppy. if someone could help me with that i sould be able to figure out the rest. thanks

[justapost]

noob questions here

this will be my first time doin raid, and im trying to slipstream the driver into my windows install disc. im not sure if im supposed to use the amdchipset driver or the raidcontroller. im using this old maximum pc tutorial and it says raid controller, but in the m3a manual when it tells you how to create the floppy for raid it says to put the amdchipset onto the floppy.

well when following that tutorial it says to place the .sys file from the driver in the windows i386 folder or w/e it is. the raid controller driver has a .sys file, but the amd chipset file does not.

im gonna keep reading about it today, but any help would be appreciated. i at least need to know what driver needs to be slipstreamed into the install so i dont need to use a floppy. if someone could help me with that i sould be able to figure out the rest. thanks

Looks like a typo in the manual, the screeshot says "AMD Raid Driver Disk", so use the raid controller driver.

[crazydiamond]

cool, i am pickin up the last of the parts today and doin the build tonight. ill post back and let you know how it goes.

[jpierce555]

Asus has never responded to me!

I am going to ditch this board. I will put it and the Phenom on Ebay this weekend. I need the money from one of my boards/cpu, and:

It is good with the x2, but I have to run 3.25@1.525v to equal the same benchmark scores I can get with 3.15@1.45 on the old board. My old board won't run a Phenom and most Phenom boards are not worth the money...at the price I could nearly buy a Blood Iron and q6600.

So I don't have much choice, keeping the M3A seems to be a gamble. My x2 will live longer with the old board and that is that.

[SocketMan]

For me (and I think it's a personal choice) running my 5000+ BE
on stock volts @ 3.00G was/is better then running it @ 3.2/3.3 with 1.55+ volts.But hey it is xtream systems after all

[Methious]

I hear ya I tend to stay close to stock vcore on Amd, higher volts on the X2 series doesn't yield that dramatic an increase in speed for the price you have to pay in heat. I might push a little more volts now that I have the new Swiftech triple 120 radiator installed an leak testing. Only for testing though 24/7 stock volts and what I can get from there.

[justapost]

Asus has never responded to me!

I am going to ditch this board. I will put it and the Phenom on Ebay this weekend. I need the money from one of my boards/cpu, and:

It is good with the x2, but I have to run 3.25@1.525v to equal the same benchmark scores I can get with 3.15@1.45 on the old board. My old board won't run a Phenom and most Phenom boards are not worth the money...at the price I could nearly buy a Blood Iron and q6600.

So I don't have much choice, keeping the M3A seems to be a gamble. My x2 will live longer with the old board and that is that.

So you contacted their developers directly and never got a response? May I ask what you old mobo is?
Yep it really is a gamble, first I had to wait around five weeks till the board got delivered and now I have to wait till the bios matures.
I wonder if this voltage thing is a general limitation of the 770 chipset. The phenom 9500 itself has a upward locked CPU VID at 1,25V. VCore settings rely on the CPU-VID settings (atleast on the MSI Premium mobo) so an upward lock on cpu-vid should cause an upward lock for cpu-vid also.
But it seems the 1,25V upward cpu vid lock is no issue on the 790FX chipsets, they can apply higher vcores there.
Can understand you decision to sell the phenom I have no use beside exploring specs for him too. Damn I don't like to say but an wolfdale at 3GHz for an similar price would do a better job here, 4GHz at ~1,35V are not bad.

For me (and I think it's a personal choice) running my 5000+ BE
on stock volts @ 3.00G was/is better then running it @ 3.2/3.3 with 1.55+ volts.But hey it is xtream systems after all

Yep, glad to see this thread did not get closed due to bad oc results.

I hear ya I tend to stay close to stock vcore on Amd, higher volts on the X2 series doesn't yield that dramatic an increase in speed for the price you have to pay in heat. I might push a little more volts now that I have the new Swiftech triple 120 radiator installed an leak testing. Only for testing though 24/7 stock volts and what I can get from there.

Must say I liked the feature on the m2a-vm which allowed two nios profiles to be saved. Id like to have two profiles, one for normal work (may be even underclocked for lower power consumption) and one for heavy workloads.

[justapost]

Here is a comparison of bandwidth in ganged vs. unganged mode.




Memory timings are identical with KTE's, the only difference is the cpu multi 11 (9500) vs 11,5 (9600BE).

[SocketMan]

http://www.gamewiki.amd.com/overclocking-howto?f=print

cpuvddc=more cpu vid? it looks like

[jpierce555]

My other motherboard is an ECS (believe it or not) KA3 MVP...and both my cpu and ram run at lower voltage, with higher benchmarks.

Yes I contacted the developers twice with no response. I made a final comment yesterday evening to Asus customer support that this is no way to be and not to expect future business from me. I don't like getting blown off, ANY answer at all would have settled me.

Justapost I agree that it may be a limit of the chipset itself, or the mosfets powering it. I don't see good reviews for the other 770 chipsets either.

[justapost]

My other motherboard is an ECS (believe it or not) KA3 MVP...and both my cpu and ram run at lower voltage, with higher benchmarks.

Due to the chipset or do you expect no suitable bios here also.
My phenom failed prime95 at 210x11 last night, so switched back to my old m2a-vm and voila the system requires less power in idle (no CnQ) now.

System:
2x1GB Crucial Ballistix 8500 (800MHz,5-5-5-18,2V),
HD 2400pro 256MB,
80GB IDE HD

M2A-VM, GP-9500(2,2GHz,1,8GHz,1,25V)
Idle: 67,8W DC
Load: 138,2W DC

M3A, GP-9500(2,2GHz,1,8GHz,1,2V/1,025V)
Idle: 93,2W DC
Load: 129,9W DC

M3A, GP-9500(2,2GHz,1,8GHz,1,185V/1,2V)
Idle: 102,5W DC
Load: 136,6W DC

M2A-VM however needs higher vcore for higher frequencies than on the M3A.

M2A-VM, GP-9500(210x11 2,31GHz,1,89GHz, 1,3V/1,3V)
Idle: 72,3W DC
Load: 145,5W DC

M3A, GP-9500(210x11 2,31GHz,1,89GHz, 1,2375V/1,0625V)
Idle: 96,7W DC
Load: 142,5W DC

[crazydiamond]

hey socketman, i see your runnin raid on the m3a too. do you know if there is a way to not have the SATA dvdrw being seen as a raid dvd drive? in my boot priority it shows regular dvd drive and a raid dvd drive, just curious if this is how its gonna be or if i can change that. also, on the 'press ctrl f' screen (after asus splash screen) it shows my 2 hd's in raid by #1 and right under that it shows #4 raid dvd drive and that one is blinking. is there a way to bypass this screen or something?

and finally, my last build was pretty much the same except for the last one was running on 1 hard drive. i was getting boot times about 25 seconds and now on a fresh install with this raid0 its taking like 40-45 seconds. im going to run some benchies on my HD's tonight. im getting same superpi 1m scores as my last rig so performance wise its about the same, its just bootup takes much longer. any ideas?

heres the hardware:
asus m3a
x2 5000+ be
4x1gb ballistix
evga 8800gt
2x320gb 7200.10 16mb raid 0
lite-on dvdrw
xclio 500w greatpower psu

[jpierce555]

Due to the chipset or do you expect no suitable bios here also.
My phenom failed prime95 at 210x11 last night, so switched back to my old m2a-vm and voila the system requires less power in idle (no CnQ) now.

When Asus gave me the email address to the engineering department they also stated they don't support overclocking, so in a word yes I don't expect a suitable bios.

[SocketMan]

Under "storage" in bios it gives options of:
1.Enable/disable The SATA chip
2.When enabled you can toggle the "function" IDE/RAID/AHCI
3.I tried AHCI first and it gave me some problems,then it turns out it's made by Intel,so I switched to "RAID" right away
Then made the floppy of the Asus Support CD and used it during install.

4.My SATA DVD only works when the SATA "function" set to IDE, but then you loose the RAID
So as far as I know you can't have raid and SATA DVD drive at the same time.

I ended up using a sata/ide to usb adapter- came in handy.

Then just swapped DVD drives later with my other machine (it had IDE DVD).

[KTE]

Here is a comparison of bandwidth in ganged vs. unganged mode.




Everything but the chipset/board are identical with KTE's testing on the MSI K9A2 Platinum.

Fixed!

http://www.gamewiki.amd.com/overclocking-howto?f=print

cpuvddc=more cpu vid? it looks like

Exactly!
If you place 000 or 1.550VID on the CPU with very good cooling and it only gets X MHz, you won't get more because it's a chip limit and that's 1.536VCore you're feeding it.

[SocketMan]

I was afraid you would say that.
I'll call of the hit on Asus Bios team after all 1.7v for cpu and cpuNB is plenty.
Guess we were hoping that there was some "mysteries" core logic (as AMD calls it) setting that was missing from the m3a bios. I haven't given it that much yet,(1.7v)
trying to "break it in" sort of speak -like a new car or a virgin- lick it before you stick approach.
We could use a voltage control for theCPU HT setting, as Justapost can get it in the 270 range.

[KTE]

Plus 1.55V-ish on cool good air will damage/degrade/kill the chip unless with cold.

[jpierce555]

I went to buy some thermal adhesive today and found the Gigabyte 790fx on a good sale and thought what the heck. Now I have to sell an old sempron/mobo, the KA3, the M3A, and one of my processors or else!

[Thesavage]

Under "storage" in bios it gives options of:
1.Enable/disable The SATA chip
2.When enabled you can toggle the "function" IDE/RAID/AHCI
3.I tried AHCI first and it gave me some problems,then it turns out it's made by Intel,so I switched to "RAID" right away
Then made the floppy of the Asus Support CD and used it during install.

4.My SATA DVD only works when the SATA "function" set to IDE, but then you loose the RAID
So as far as I know you can't have raid and SATA DVD drive at the same time.

I ended up using a sata/ide to usb adapter- came in handy.

Then just swapped DVD drives later with my other machine (it had IDE DVD).

My raid and sata run perfectly off the "raid" option in the bios no problem on both the m3a and m3a32 deluxe

[jpierce555]

Sorry to derail the M3A side of this:

I just ran science mark on the Gigabyte 790fx with the Phenom stock and got the same score I got with the M3A turned up to its max, I consider that a really good start. It has voltage up to 1.38v for the cpu. The bios looks more familiar. It has its own oc software, good thing AOD crashes on it. Interesting is Windows does not realize the difference, I did not have to re-activate. It was a very easy install. The layout fits my case much better, still a little clearance issue with the nb and the Infinity hs. I also see that the SATA cable attachments are in a bad place. A major plus is all of the fan sockets.

I will be back tomorrow to let you know if I can oc this board or not.

[gOtVoltage]

Any one try setting the HT width to 16x and the HTmax IN/OUT to 16x...WHILE using a Phenom

If the Bios defaults any of these 4settings to 8x your losing performance/CPU,comunication with the Pci-E link with..These new bioses seem to cap the linkwidths for everything when set to 8x..

If you have the Option to cahnge it in Bios @ stock settings it would be under HT link width and HT width...CHANGE all Link Widths TO 16x in BIOS..

Youll see what im talking about.

Ive noticed the 3Dmarks scores posted ABOVE are like only 5000 if that,, ....This is a sign the HT link to PCi-E is being capped with the Bioses. Especially if you have a Bios that the( HTlink and width Autodefaults) even if you set it!

It would be interesting to see if it can be set on the M3A as i can do this with the TA770 and Stock Bios @ Stock clocks.

[justapost]

Polygon from RebelsHaven was so kind to mod the 601 Bios in a way that the Lan-Boot field can be used to disable the fix (enabled the tlb).

I modded the 601 BIOS for the M3A board to disable the TBL-Fix when the LAN Boot is enabled in the BIOS...

The BIOS is untested and you must be able to recover from a Bad Flash before trying this BIOS. I don't know if the BIOS is corrupt or not. I have done some other AMI BIOS this way, but mainly I Mod Award BIOS and I'm just not sure of this one.

I did not yet test it, cuz i'm running few stability test's with phenom on the m2a-vm atm.

In case you want to try it I uploaded the bios to rapidshare here.

[Methious]

Any body been hearing about the new offerings from AMD due out 2nd quarter 2008? 45nm process, jump from 2 meg cache to 6 meg L2 cache, higher frequencies, dual and quad core designed for the am2+ platform. They'll be having an AM3 platform later initially supporting ddr2 and ddr3. I talked to a friend from college who works for AMD, if what their telling him is true it's a move back to embracing the enthusiast users and will over clock similar to the Intel chips. can't wait to see some engineering samples handed out and tested.

[jpierce555]

Any one try setting the HT width to 16x and the HTmax IN/OUT to 16x...WHILE using a Phenom

If the Bios defaults any of these 4settings to 8x your losing performance/CPU,comunication with the Pci-E link with..These new bioses seem to cap the linkwidths for everything when set to 8x..

If you have the Option to cahnge it in Bios @ stock settings it would be under HT link width and HT width...CHANGE all Link Widths TO 16x in BIOS..

Youll see what im talking about.

Ive noticed the 3Dmarks scores posted ABOVE are like only 5000 if that,, ....This is a sign the HT link to PCi-E is being capped with the Bioses. Especially if you have a Bios that the( HTlink and width Autodefaults) even if you set it!

It would be interesting to see if it can be set on the M3A as i can do this with the TA770 and Stock Bios @ Stock clocks.

Thanks for the tip, you are right, I can see that on the Gigabyte board. Without changing to 16x it won't oc more than a couple of bumps in the fsb. I did not see that on the M3A, even on this you must type CNTRL+F1 to find it. Maybe somebody should email Asus and ask about it again.