ISH Removal for e21XX series CPUs

[sniper007]

Hi all,

I have read with interest some discussion of these CPUs. It is fairly noticeable that most of these CPUs seem to run with high load temps when overclocked to around their limit. Most people seem to be able to hit 3.2ghz fairly easily, then hit a FSB wall where vcore increase doesn't help much. That's exactly what I experienced with mine. Anyway...

What I would like to discuss here is how many people are considering and possibly have already removed the IHS on these CPUs? To me it seems easier and a lot less time, effort and bother than lapping, as lapping often doesn't give the desired results after a lot of work. I have seen that it seems all of these e21XX series CPUs come with a differetn IHS "seal" to other more highend CPUs which affects their load temps. Other more costly CPUs tend to have their IHS soldered on around the sides, where as these are not and are able to be removed.

Is the IHS removal on these pretty much the same as you would do with other CPUs? I removed a couple of socket 939 CPU IHS's. I am also interested in how it affects heatsink block mounting. Is a make up shim required and does it affect the stability of the CPU being held in the socket bracket clamp? Are the cores able to take pressure without IHS ok?


Many thanks for discussion on this matter.

[bassie]

Just do the same as you did with s939 cpu's (watch out for resistors/capacitors under the ihs). If your lucky the ihs falls off, if your unlucky its solderd and you have to heat it.

[Digital Nirvana]

you can't remove Core 2 lids without a great effort, they are soldered on and it takes a very precise amount of heat in order to take it off without killing it.

[STEvil]

place a razor under each edge giving very slight pressure. If it is soldered then it will stay in place. Heat it with the razors under the edges and it will pop off at the correct temperature.

Keeps you from overheating the CPU.

[brandinb]

i was thinking of doing this but from what i've read there is a very high chance to loose your cpu in the process. Looks like lapping it is the best idea unless you are ok to experiment and possibly loose a cpu which i wish i was in the position to do but unfortunately.....

[Bail_w]

i remove the IHS for both of my E2160 and E2140 by using razor blade. dropped 10-15c load temps.

[sniper007]

you can't remove Core 2 lids without a great effort, they are soldered on and it takes a very precise amount of heat in order to take it off without killing it.

I tried to make it clear in the original post that, with these CPUs most people are finding that the IHS is NOt repeat NOT soldered on around the edges, and hence are able to remove them with relative ease.

[sniper007]

i remove the IHS for both of my E2160 and E2140 by using razor blade. dropped 10-15c load temps.

Hey there bail_w, can you give me some details as below? Regards

1: How easy was it?
2: What method did you use?
3: Any tips/recommendations/pre-requisites?
4: Did you try lapping as well?
5: Did you find they were soldered on?
6: How did you get on with mounting heatsinks/blocks after the removal?
7: Did you find the CPU was not as secure in the clamping socket bracket on the mobo after IHS removal?

Regards

[Bail_w]

Read your Pm.

[cozwin]

i was wondering slight idea i had maybe stupid but still... could you maybe heat the razors up while there in really hot so they cut through solder but the heat wouldnt touch core?

[Bail_w]

i was wondering slight idea i had maybe stupid but still... could you maybe heat the razors up while there in really hot so they cut through solder but the heat wouldnt touch core?

you never remove an IHS before huh?

[sniper007]

Thanks for the reply Bail_w. I asked you via pm for some more info on the mounting bracket mods you did. Otherwise Im going for it. I've removed a couple of socket 939 cpu IHS's before so I'm fairly confident. I will take out the cpu and check for soldering. Either way I will try to pop the lid.
One last thing...i always hear rumours that the intel bare CPUs with cores exposed, are more fragile under pressure compared to the older AMD ones? This true?
Im in the UK with regard to finding mounting brackets/springs online for any mods I carry out.

Cheers

[cozwin]

you never remove an IHS before huh?

lol na would never do it just thought might be a idea :P

[sniper007]

Only thing stopping me at the moment is that I dont think the freezer pro would be suitable with the IHS removed. Probably better to buy a screw type heatsink like a scythe/TRUE or something. Gonna order some stuff today.

[pokipoki]

Notes about IHS removal (gathered from here & the net)
************************************************

Ok guys... I got something major to report. If you soak your CPU in a product called Solvoplast (used to remove bandaids and other adheasives) you will be able to remove the IHS in under 10 seconds with a good razor and drastically reduce your chances of damaging your CPU.

If you are members of XtremeSystems please post this in thier IHS removal thread.

I works soooo good. I left my FX-53 upside down in just enough to cover the silicone seal overnight and came home from work and had it done in less that 2 minutes, and half was wonding why it was so easy

======================================

To make it even easier I used NAIL POLISH remover around edges to soften up the adheasive.That made it easy as pie and taking my time I would say you will invest 30 minutes JUST getting the H/S off.

Well. I soaked my CPU in it for close to 24 hours. What I did was put it upside down, and filled a small container to the bottom of the substrate so it would come in contact with the silicone (or whatever it was) and left it.

I returned form work and was actaully quite nervous. I began to insert the blade (a Gillette dual edged straight razor) and was wondering why it was so easy...

I went around it twice and it wasn't coming off. Turned out some of the Solvoplast has gotten inside from the one side of the IHS that has the spot with no silicone and was creating a bit of a vacuum. Poped right off after i figured that out.

Now. I know that the internals of the CPU had been soaked in the Solvoplast for a long time. Stuck it back in my case and fired right up. Dropped 2c on my idle temp and 10c on load. Gonna start testing for max tonight.

All in all I would have to say therre is no damage to the CPU from Solvoplast. The next one I do will take less than 30 seconds becuase I know what is going on. And I know I will never damage anything.

After everything was said and done I rinsed the CPU off with 90% alcholol to get rid of the Solvoplast(it kinda stinks and is alittle greasy).

You can trust me Angry... then other people will trust what you say

Here is a pic of my 3800 A64 venice. This is my 5th AMD that I have removed the IHS. Generally I can pick up 60-80 more mhz by doing so. However this unit only gave me 40 mhz at slightly higher voltage. Worth it? To some yes. To others no. The easiest method for me is to use a single back razor blade and ROCK it back and forth on each edge working it closer to the middle each time. Takes about 5 minutes taking my time and not one damaged cpu. Proceed at your own risk and don't forget you lose any warranty.

============================================

With IHS-side down, I basically submerged the CPU in Goo Gone up to the base of the pins. I soaked the CPU overnight (about 12 hours). The stuff has a cloying, citrus smell, and the odor filled up my room until I opened up a window and turned on a fan.

Anyway, I rinsed the CPU with 99% (anhydrous) isopropyl alchohol (there's an eBay seller that sells this really pure stuff), and went at it with a thin, double-edge razor blade (with one side taped off with about six layers of masking tape). The hardest part of this procedure is holding the CPU firmly between your thumb and index finger without putting pressure on the edge pins. But I was able to complete everything without bending a single pin.

The easiest place to start is at a corner of the IHS - you can get the corner of the razor in pretty easily there. And it was extremely easy to slice around the peripery. After I got all the way around, I expected the IHS to just lift off (or fall off - I had IHS-side down as I performed this procedure), but it didn't. I assumed that maybe I hadn't cut deeply enough. So I went around a second, third, fourth, and fifth time, cutting a little deeper each time.

The trouble is, I think there's a bit of a vacuum effect, so even though the IHS is completely severed from the CPU, suction is still holding it on. And the razor blade is SO thin, you can't get any leverage with it to pry off the IHS.

So after completing five-circuits around the CPU with the razor with no satisfaction, I got a thin paring knife (MUCH stiffer than the razor) and gently inserted the edge of the blade at one corner (by this point, there were several locations where there was a clear separation between the IHS and CPU). And the IHS just fell off. In retrospect, I probably should have tried this after just a couple of circuits.

It's hard to say what contribution the Goo Gone had - the cutting was very easy, but maybe with this thin razor blade that would have been the case even without soaking the CPU in the solvent.

Just remember to take things very slowly.

============================================

Step by Step removal guide someone asked for:

Use a single edge razor, like those found in paint scrapers. They have a very thin edge, and are knurled on one side... so it gives you something to hang onto.

I started off by pushing the razor under the corners, until it was in through the epoxy. I kept shoving it under all four corners until it moved pretty freely. Then I used a kind of sea-saw motion to work it around to the sides. I left the blade in, and pivoted on the corner as I shoved the blade into the side.

Use back-pressure, so if something gives, you dont ram the blade into the core or anything else. Move as it will let you move. ie: don't force it. The key is to "push" the blade, don't cut or saw your way through.

==============================================

My own experience :

Before you do this, ensure the core is not epoxied/soldered to the IHS

thinnest razor blade
pure acetone (solvent grade), unable to acquire Solvoplast
small plastic container, slightly larger than the cpu, thick plastic preffered

Use the thinnest razor blade available, buy a few woman's razor & remove the blade. Men's razor are thicker.

Use fabric type duct tape to tape over one edge of the razor. Apply multiple layers to secure a better grip on the blade.

To soak CPU in acetone for 8-12 hours :
**************************************
Flip CPU so that the IHS is facing down. Place CPU in plastic container.
Slowly fill container with acetone, only up to the PCB. (use teaspoon/dropper)
Ensure acetone does not touch resistors/caps on the other side of the CPU. (some have totally submerged CPU for 16 hrs with no damage)
Cover the container so acetone does not evaporate as quickly.
Top up acetone as required.

After 8-12 hours
****************
Remove CPU
Allow to dry (less than a minute)
If you can : tape the fine power lines/traces on the CPU PCB
Position thin blade at top corner of CPU (no visible power traces there)
Use other hand to *gently* push the CPU *into* the blade (back pressure)
Use the other corner if it doesn't work
Once one corner is penetrated, use small edge of blade to slowly "cut" the sides until all sides & corners are removed

Note
- Never ever force the blade under the IHS
- Never ever scratch the PCB (if you see gold, the CPU is damaged, happened to me.)
- Do not pry the IHS from the CPU, slowly rotate the IHS instead
- If you need to put the CPU on the table to cut it, you're using too much force already.

When IHS is separated
- clean core TIM with acetone or something equivalent
- remove CPU Cover from motherboard socket (there are pics somewhere on the net, easy to do, flip open cover & pry sideways)
- ensure heatsink is the screw-down type (push-pin & clip type will not work)
- cut small pieces & layers of duct tape & tape onto PCB near the core (function as pads for the heatsink)
- ensure layers are lower than core

Achieve average 8-12C lower temps, otherwise re-examine your core-to-heatsink contact.

[sniper007]

Thanks for all that info. A lot of those steps are from peoples experiences with Athlon 64 IHS removal I think.
I personally have used a retractable blade before rather than the razors suggested. Much more to grip which I prefer as I get more control. A good craft knife or a scalpal would also be ideal.

[sniper007]

Well I recieved my T.R.U.E and I'll post up some pics later as I think I'm going to lap it. Thanks for help so far.

[sniper007]

Thermal Right Ultra Extreme arrived and I snapped this pic earlier. It seems to be typical of what people have been experiencing with these. Convex base means the sides fall away lower than the hump in the middle. I'll be lapping this later.

[Jejking]

Read your Pm.

Share your tips with us please. We're curious

[sniper007]

Its immediate as you start lapping how bad it is. Below pic currently at 1200 grit. I didnt spend that long being an4l about it all rotating it 90 degrees and doing 360 rotations on each grit. I rotated a couple of times up through the grits. I was careful to spend a while on the first grit I used to get it flat. Remarkably, two corners on mine just will not go flat as they literally curl away at an extreme. I am talking like a mm though and its at the very corner of the corner point so would not affect a CPU IHS.

I just need to make a final 1600 grit pass I think and I'm not sure I can be bothered with polishing compund just to get a mirror finish for forum brownie points. Just going to 1600 grit it and be done with it. Its flat = done.

[sniper007]

Ok so I finished lapping my TRUE up to 1500 grit. Not like a mirror like some on here, but I can get a reflection clearly off of it. More importantly its flat in absolutely any direction even accross the diagonals now. I am ready to mount this on my e2140 and I'm redy to whip the IHS off, I'm just concerned about the mounting issues some have had with the TRUE, and especially since I am removing IHS. I want there to be enough pressure and it not move at all, but I dont want to crush my naked core. Any advice?

[aoch88]

Honestly, what's the gain by removing the IHS? I'm sure Intel has a reason to have it at the first place.

[JamesBong420]

i just received an e4500. did some research found it wasnt soldered and jsut did her up like the AMD days. and bam off it came.. just use some tape to hold the cpu in the socket then mount my water block and whalaaa 20c drop on load, from 70c orthos load to 50c orthos load. with 1,7 volts love getting cheap ass cpus.

Peace, Love & Respect.........

[FrogBite]

I just removed the soldered IHS from my Intel 3.2ghz northwood cpu. Firstly took apart a womans shaver and used the flexible blades to cut through the glue thing. Once all around I tried to lift it but couldnt. I then found out that the die was soldered to the IHS. Instead of heating it up with something I simply installed the CPU and ran it without a fan. The computer turns itself off at 90 degrees, checked that before hand, so around the temp. at which the solder melts. Some source said it melts at 85. So as soon as the pc turns itself off I took a screwdriver and pushed the IHS off. Then left it to cool and with lapped the die. I did this because the solder which melted dropped off in metal ball.

Probably wouldnt try this with my new Q6600

[aoch88]

Is removing this thing would drop us that much of temps?