Skulltrail @ 4.8Ghz

[WrigleyVillain]

because after all thats what 99% of the users are here for.

Not many of the regulars, I'd say. I couldn't even dream of affording something like Skulltrail, so I come here to see it in action, so to speak.

[Movieman]

Not many of the regulars, I'd say. I couldn't even dream of affording something like Skulltrail, so I come here to see it in action, so to speak.

Well said. I'm in that group also.
BUT I come to see what can be, what is ther top and I can sit back and enjoy Fugger's tweaking this beast almost as if it was here.
Yea, a little "Walter Mitty" if you will but it's true.
( Now sits back and laughs as not 5% of this forum is old enough to know that term)

[freeloader]

I just like to see what will be available to the average Joe, myself included, in about two years. If it's top of the line now, it will be a bargain in about 2 years.

[ghost101]

A Bugatti Veyron doesnt depreciate in value though. So a false analogy.

Also, the Bugatti Veyron is in a different weight class to the SCC Ultimate Aero TT, so another reason why the analogy doesnt stand. The Bugatti Veyron is far more comfortable due to extra electronic crap it has.

http://www.supercars.net/Comp?source...List=3621-3190

[Philly_Boy]

We come to XS to read about the most Xtreme hardware available. A few can actually afford to go out and assemble a rig with best-in-class components. The rest just like to see what amazing hardware is capable of in the hands of capable and experianced overclockers like Charles, Vince (K|ngp|n), George (HiPro), and Eric (OPPAINTER). So when we get it down the line when it's not so gee-wiz-brand-new we know how to properly set it up for whatever our passion is...gaming...crunching...or benching.

I have met some of these folks (Charles, Vince, Eric, Shamino, etc) and and really appreciate that they are willing to share the secrets of their discoveries with hardware they get first. Yes most of them are sponsored so they get the privilege of playing with this amazing hardware without much financial outlay. We shouldn't bust them for this. They have more than earned this status.

Will most of us ever go out and do the things they do to their rigs? NO. But, if it weren't for people like Charles and Vince setting WR's with their rigs we wouldn't have any inspiration to do what we do with our own machines. I am proud to be among my "family"...this band of dedicated and passionate overclockers.

*steps off soap box and turns off the microphone*

[sierra_bound]

Well said, Philly_Boy.

I keep hearing people referring to Skulltrail as a "proof of concept" board. That term has specific meanings, depending on whether you're talking about computer security or business. This is how it is defined in Wikipedia:

Proof of concept is a short and/or incomplete realization (or synopsis) of a certain method or idea(s) to demonstrate its feasibility, or a demonstration in principle, whose purpose is to verify that some concept or theory is probably capable of exploitation in a useful manner. A related (somehow synonym) term is "proof of principle".

The proof of concept is usually considered a milestone on the way of (sic) a fully functioning prototype.

Skulltrail is neither a proof of concept or a prototype. It's a finished product that will soon be available for sale.

[DShankar]

So Skulltrail REQUIRES desktop processors that are LGA771 socket? Meaning I can't use Xeon LGA771s.
Bummer. What's the LGA771 desktop lineup? Is it just the QX9x50s?

[Kingcarcas]

Did you earn your money? Yes? Then you have the right to spend it on whatever the hell you want I would look at a Bugatti as a complete waste of money, money better spent on beer

[mXpS]

OMG FUGGER! That is insane. We need more..

[JAG87]

Sorry to say this but your wrong on many points.
Buy that Bugatti today and in under 2 years something will be faster.
Same as PC's my friend.
One has to make the decision at what level he wants to play.
Yes, you get a year at the top and thats the price of admission.
If you don't want to play at that level you simply don't buy the top and settle for something lesser.
Now you say: " I wouldn't want to be the person who looks at his chassis in Q4 2008 and thinks "I cant believe I spent 3000 dollars on a pair of cpus that nobody would even dream of wanting right now, and omg, nehalem is faster, overclocks more, and uses less power".
I could say that same thing right now comparing this SkullTrail rig to my Clovertown setup but that is evolution and I accept it.
It doesn't make my rig useless, it just means that there is something faster out there. My system does just as much today as it did yesterday so there is no feeling of OMG, I have to toss this in the barrel..
See what I mean?
Someone buys this ST system today and they will get more than a year out of it. Much more.

I raced cars for years..Drags and SCCA
Would have loved to play at the top with the big boys in F1 but outside of my financial ability( and personal talents)
We all find that area that we're comfortable at and thats where we "play"

Now back to our regularly scheduled "Fugger Watch" hoping he shows some more on this beast!

let me break down your argument in two seconds:

Q: why would someone buy skulltrail?
A: to have the fastest machine on earth

I quote you:

I could say that same thing right now comparing this SkullTrail rig to my Clovertown setup but that is evolution and I accept it.
It doesn't make my rig useless, it just means that there is something faster out there. My system does just as much today as it did yesterday so there is no feeling of OMG, I have to toss this in the barrel..

do you see the inconsistency?

Unfortunately when you pay 1.3 million for a Bugatti Veyron that doesn't give you the fastest car for more than 23 months. As the current fastest production car in the world is the SCC Ulimate Aero TT produced by Shelby Super Cars. And it only costs 600,000.
Only about HALF that of the Veyron.

Just like what villa1n said, as with people with Bugatti's and Skulltrails, these people are in a different financial bracket. Absolute performance is their goal and price doesn't deter them. There is absolutely no reason to say it's stupid when people are striving for this, it can be very stupid when people are looking for a price/performance cpu and they pick out a QX chip though. Don't get the two situations confused and show some respect to those who have different priorities and goals.

Edit: Movieman beat me by couple minutes =P

we started talking about the bugatti because a person brought it up, but its completely out of the context. we shouldn't even be comparing cars to computers. people pay thousands of dollars for a 1965 camaro, how come I dont see people paying thousands of dollars for a commodore 64. And what are these accusations of me not showing respect?

Not many of the regulars, I'd say. I couldn't even dream of affording something like Skulltrail, so I come here to see it in action, so to speak.

thats perfectly fine, nothing wrong with that.

A Bugatti Veyron doesnt depreciate in value though. So a false analogy.

Also, the Bugatti Veyron is in a different weight class to the SCC Ultimate Aero TT, so another reason why the analogy doesnt stand. The Bugatti Veyron is far more comfortable due to extra electronic crap it has.

http://www.supercars.net/Comp?source...List=3621-3190

exactly, which is why the two shouldn't be compared.

We come to XS to read about the most Xtreme hardware available. A few can actually afford to go out and assemble a rig with best-in-class components. The rest just like to see what amazing hardware is capable of in the hands of capable and experianced overclockers like Charles, Vince (K|ngp|n), George (HiPro), and Eric (OPPAINTER). So when we get it down the line when it's not so gee-wiz-brand-new we know how to properly set it up for whatever our passion is...gaming...crunching...or benching.

I have met some of these folks (Charles, Vince, Eric, Shamino, etc) and and really appreciate that they are willing to share the secrets of their discoveries with hardware they get first. Yes most of them are sponsored so they get the privilege of playing with this amazing hardware without much financial outlay. We shouldn't bust them for this. They have more than earned this status.

Will most of us ever go out and do the things they do to their rigs? NO. But, if it weren't for people like Charles and Vince setting WR's with their rigs we wouldn't have any inspiration to do what we do with our own machines. I am proud to be among my "family"...this band of dedicated and passionate overclockers.

*steps off soap box and turns off the microphone*

like I already said, there is nothing wrong with that, I agree it's nice that these people get to play with this hardware and show us the possibilities, I am simply stating my opinion that people should not get too excited about something that will never penetrate into the market.

Well said, Philly_Boy.

I keep hearing people referring to Skulltrail as a "proof of concept" board. That term has specific meanings, depending on whether you're talking about computer security or business. This is how it is defined in Wikipedia:



Skulltrail is neither a proof of concept or a prototype. It's a finished product that will soon be available for sale.

There is only going to be hundreds or maybe a thousand boards produced. Thats not even a limited edition retail product, thats closer to a prototype if you ask me.






Ok, wow that was the longest multi quote post ever. I just want to say, chill out guys, dont get so defensive about this. I am merely stating my opinion on what the future outlook of this platform is, and my opinion on the investment in such a platform. In no way am I against charles or anybody else showing this stuff off. After all, if this stuff isn't shown off on XS, where else?

[Prodigys]

Very nice !

[Tonucci]

5 big rants about skulltrail sounds like you just hate it. Is it because it blows your rig away ? Just my guess, given your age. When you look close, your logic is flawed.

There are tons of stuff with "terrible" value that people buy because they CAN and WANT. To rich people, the satisfaction means alot more than just money. What are they suppose to do ? Save eternally ?

If you dont like extreme stuff, that costs an arm and a leg, your should think about going back to AnandTech. Earlier you said that people come here looking for the best bang for their buck. Wrong....This is XTREME SYSTEMS.

[Dualist]

That's very nice going Fugger

Any idea on release date yet and how many they are making.?

[Oliver]

Looks really impressive Charles.

Keep pushing it.

[Movieman]

let me break down your argument in two seconds:

Q: why would someone buy skulltrail?
A: to have the fastest machine on earth

Why would I buy it, if I had the funds to do so:
1) I like dual socket machines and this is really the first dualie with all the options in BIOS to get the most out of the cpu's.
I also generally find that dual socket boards are built better( more stable) than single sockets.
2) I do DC work, aids, cancer, etc..
The "faster" the machine the more work it can do and hopefully shorten the time until the cures are found for these diseases to give my kids and yours to come a better healthier life.
3) And last: Still a little kid in me that has some fun with a few of the benchmarks.
I've spent maybe 12-20 hours in the past year running benches, mostly Cinebench and wPrime. The rest of the time the machines work at 100% load 24/7 doing research.

[JAG87]

Why would I buy it, if I had the funds to do so:
1) I like dual socket machines and this is really the first dualie with all the options in BIOS to get the most out of the cpu's.
I also generally find that dual socket boards are built better( more stable) than single sockets.
2) I do DC work, aids, cancer, etc..
The "faster" the machine the more work it can do and hopefully shorten the time until the cures are found for these diseases to give my kids and yours to come a better healthier life.
3) And last: Still a little kid in me that has some fun with a few of the benchmarks.
I've spent maybe 12-20 hours in the past year running benches, mostly Cinebench and wPrime. The rest of the time the machines work at 100% load 24/7 doing research.

I have nothing to say against that, except that you are excluded from the group of average enthusiasts. You strive to find multi core, and this is one of the only platforms out today that gives you 8 cores, together with a clovertown platform, which you already have. And I am sure you can testify that a clovertown platform, when you add it up, isn't much cheaper than skulltrail after all. well maybe the cpus might be a bit cheaper, but thats all.

but lets be honest. take a sample of 100 enthusiasts on XS. how many people have a clovertown system, and how many people have a heavily OCed E6850 or Q6600... the whole point of my argument was market penetration and value for your money, and you as well as other people, misinterpreted this from the very begging. read my first post one more time movieman.

5 big rants about skulltrail sounds like you just hate it. Is it because it blows your rig away ? Just my guess, given your age. When you look close, your logic is flawed.

There are tons of stuff with "terrible" value that people buy because they CAN and WANT. To rich people, the satisfaction means alot more than just money. What are they suppose to do ? Save eternally ?

If you dont like extreme stuff, that costs an arm and a leg, your should think about going back to AnandTech. Earlier you said that people come here looking for the best bang for their buck. Wrong....This is XTREME SYSTEMS.

you couldn't be more wrong my friend. I have started the same kind of discussions against FANS8 or QuadFX, whatever you want to call it, when it clearly doesn't outperform my system.

I agree with you that there are tons of stuff with terrible value that people buy, and all I am doing is pointing out that this is one of them. Thats all, no need to get defensive.

[sierra_bound]

lThere is only going to be hundreds or maybe a thousand boards produced. Thats not even a limited edition retail product, thats closer to a prototype if you ask me.

You're trying to cover up the fact that you used the wrong term. Proof of concept, a prototype and a finished product are three different things. And the only one who's being defensive here is you.

[Movieman]

I have nothing to say against that, except that you are excluded from the group of average enthusiasts. You strive to find multi core, and this is one of the only platforms out today that gives you 8 cores, together with a clovertown platform, which you already have. And I am sure you can testify that a clovertown platform, when you add it up, isn't much cheaper than skulltrail after all. well maybe the cpus might be a bit cheaper, but thats all.

but lets be honest. take a sample of 100 enthusiasts on XS. how many people have a clovertown system, and how many people have a heavily OCed E6850 or Q6600... the whole point of my argument was market penetration and value for your money, and you as well as other people, misinterpreted this from the very begging. read my first post one more time movieman.
.

I'd guess a complete Skulltrail system( board, top cpu's and 4x2 gig DDR2-800FBDimms) would cost app $4000.00
Definitely not for the average guy.
At Xs there are many interests.
Guys that are into top vid cards and modding them for pure graphics performance.
Guys that strictly do things like Super Pi
Guys like me that do DC work.
All different and room for all of us.
Whether this machine is cost efficient or even useful outside of a limited area isn't the point.
The issue is that it is something new with more capabilities than the previous dual socket boards and with those capabilities allows a dualie to really come into it's own.
This is why all the interest and you might be surprised at just how many people are actually thinking of getting one.
You should see my PM box with all the questions..
Oh, I'm cheap, and poor, built 2 clover systems for the cost of this one with the aid of a gentleman who also is into DC work.

There is room for all of us so rather than coming into a thread with negative remarks maybe sit back and just enjoy someone else's accomplishment and if it doesn't quite seem to be something your interested it, flip to another thread where your interests are..
Thanks for reading..

[Tonucci]

Im just trying to point out that from the cost/gaming performance POV, It has bad value, but from the satisfaction/cost POV, to the enthusiasts with alot of cash to spare, it has great value. An dual socket mobo with OC options

[alfaunits]

Forget the rest, when will this really ship for sure?:-)
Also curious about running Xeons instead of desktop LGA771 - I presume the prefether tactic is the only difference, and for most the desktop version would work better, but prolly both would work?

[villa1n]

ok. jag, lets make it simple. for some of us 3000$ is not a lot of money. relative to our income, paying that much for the best performance in the world currently, is a very worth while expenditure. the car analogy was a quick metaphor, not a in depth thought out philosophical arguement, as the arguement is quite simple... price performance is relative. plain and simple.

[Kayin]

I do remember when a 5950 Ultra, BH-5, a DFI Infinity and a 3200+ was around 500 dollars. Back then I had the best of the best. Now it's nearing 10k a machine. Bring back the days when a normal person could afford the best and clock it blind...

[IanY]

Most people hardly use 10% of the power in their cars on the road daily? Why then would anybody need to buy a powerful car? For satisfaction. For happiness. Its a reward for hard work.

People will want the Skulltrail and will buy it. If everything excessive is such a waste of money, there wouldn't be any Ferrari dealerships around.

Heck. I bought an IBM PS/2 80 i80386 machine when I finished college in the early/mid 80s. It cost me $9,000 without monitor or keyboard. I also bought a $4,000 laser printer that was marketed by Apple.

In the mid-90s, I bought a Voodoo2 SLI system for $630 and it couldn't even output 2D. So, I rushed out and bought a Matrox G200 AGP video card with a staggering 16 MB of ram on board. The video subsystem alone cost close to $900. I also remember the Pentium 2 cpu for $1,100.

[Torphoto]

Well I just got in from work/after work party. All I can say is damn good job Fugger!!!!! You make up proud!

next I know you can't show us too much more but can you sneak a few answers if possible

1. is skulltrail designed to oc with other xeon chips, like the 5440 and 5430's? with fsb options or other potions that don't require multiplier increasing ( as those chips are locked it appears ).

I am asking this since skulltrail may be a possible option to build workstation machines, not just xtreme beasts.

[DShankar]

Well I just got in from work/after work party. All I can say is damn good job Fugger!!!!! You make up proud!

next I know you can't show us too much more but can you sneak a few answers if possible

1. is skulltrail designed to oc with other xeon chips, like the 5440 and 5430's? with fsb options or other potions that don't require multiplier increasing ( as those chips are locked it appears ).

I am asking this since skulltrail may be a possible option to build workstation machines, not just xtreme beasts.

I looked around and it appears that Skulltrail requires Core 2 Extreme LGA771 chips.