Easynews goes down

[ShootStraight]

Ive crunched some numbers as I'm involved in a family business that build "green" homes and the economics are different for retrofits as they are for new building.

New "green" homes only cost 10-15% more to build than their traditional counterparts. This is utilizing smaller homes with much better insulation, geothermal, solar, community wind, renewable materials, and water permeable concrete. People are willing to pay 20-25% more for such homes and they cost 60% less to operate as well as higher resale values. You also get better zoning considerations usually, allowing for more coverage.

Economies of scale play a large part in making it a profitable venture that you just dont get from retrofitting older homes with newer technology. However, there are new innovations coming that might make retrofits more appealing and cost-effective though they will still be less competitive than their new-built counterparts. Its best to time, plan, and do any of those installs to coincide with a major remodel of the house as it will pretty much require that anyways - just prepare for an extra $100k-$200K depending on what youre going to put in. Whatever you dont amortize will likely be extracted on sale as people are willing to pay premiums for it, and homes sell quicker.

-SS

[Movieman]

Ive crunched some numbers as I'm involved in a family business that build "green" homes and the economics are different for retrofits as they are for new building.

New "green" homes only cost 10-15% more to build than their traditional counterparts. This is utilizing smaller homes with much better insulation, geothermal, solar, community wind, renewable materials, and water permeable concrete. People are willing to pay 20-25% more for such homes and they cost 60% less to operate as well as higher resale values. You also get better zoning considerations usually, allowing for more coverage.

Economies of scale play a large part in making it a profitable venture that you just dont get from retrofitting older homes with newer technology. However, there are new innovations coming that might make retrofits more appealing and cost-effective though they will still be less competitive than their new-built counterparts. Its best to time, plan, and do any of those installs to coincide with a major remodel of the house as it will pretty much require that anyways - just prepare for an extra $100k-$200K depending on what youre going to put in. Whatever you dont amortize will likely be extracted on sale as people are willing to pay premiums for it, and homes sell quicker.

-SS

That's excellent for the guy building or buying new but what about the rest of us? I like where I live. Good people, no crime,etc. I'd love to do solar but it's not practical.
What we need is a "in" with a solar panel manufacturer.
The old line "I can get it for you wholesale" comes to mind.

[ShootStraight]

The cost of the panels is half the problem - prolly less than half actually. Its the new roof, conduit, drywall repairs, electrical panel, permits, etc. Then theres the incidental environmentals ; diminished output due to your northern latitude, 1979 insulation specs, and 30 YO AC system. All this requires you to put up more solar to compensate for without the return.

Like I said, it will likely require a major remodel to the house in order to be cost-effective. Reducing your demand is half the problem and isnt cheap to fix.

You could probably reduce the cost of the panels just by getting a few neighbors together and negotiating/buying together.

-SS

[sierra_bound]

To avoid retro-fitting costs, wouldn't it make sense to install free-standing panels away from the house? Of course this assumes you have enough land to do this.

[Movieman]

The cost of the panels is half the problem - prolly less than half actually. Its the new roof, conduit, drywall repairs, electrical panel, permits, etc. Then theres the incidental environmentals ; diminished output due to your northern latitude, 1979 insulation specs, and 30 YO AC system. All this requires you to put up more solar to compensate for without the return.

Like I said, it will likely require a major remodel to the house in order to be cost-effective. Reducing your demand is half the problem and isnt cheap to fix.

You could probably reduce the cost of the panels just by getting a few neighbors together and negotiating/buying together.

-SS

Roof is new(2 years) house is WELL insulated,drywall I can do,elec panel is not an issue, AC is 2- window units, one upstairs and one down,12,000 and 6500BTU, and the 12,000 unit doesn't run unless the day is going to be over 85F.
The issue is strictly in the panel cost and the demand is because of the PC's
Next?
Easy house to do, just the damned panel cost:

[leviathon-nz]

You could always turn off some of those hungry power suckers Runs and hides from the burning wrath

[SiGfever]

You could always turn off some of those hungry power suckers Runs and hides from the burning wrath

Sacrilege!

[Movieman]

You could always turn off some of those hungry power suckers Runs and hides from the burning wrath

I'm down to the 2 clovers and the quad and they "ain't being shut down" short of nuclear war..

[SiGfever]

All fluorescent lights use mercury in one form or another, including the ubiquitous long tubes.

Also, experts say the mercury threat from the energy-efficient bulbs has been overblown.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...fls-bulbs.html

Thanks S_B for the link, very informative. I will have to rethink the situation.

[ShootStraight]

They require more land, a fair bit more. those tracking arrays are much more efficient, but they arent small or cheap. One array is about 10x15 - 150 sqft. For someone like Dave that could mean 3-4 arrays. Also they need to have relatively short wire runs to the inverters otherwise you start losing. Might have to cut down trees. Theyre also kinda ugly IMO - I'd imagine you could piss off your neighbors, at which point they'll probably plant a tree and shade your array.

-SS

[sierra_bound]

Interesting. I think I'll pass on solar for now.

Regarding LED bulbs, one of the downsides I've heard about them, besides cost, is the amount of light they throw out. A lot of people complain the light tends to be directional and not very bright. Some don't like the fluorescent glow of CFL's, but they do provide enough light for most rooms. I use one in the lamp that sits on my computer desk.

[ShootStraight]

Roof is new(2 years) house is WELL insulated,drywall I can do,elec panel is not an issue, AC is 2- window units, one upstairs and one down,12,000 and 6500BTU, and the 12,000 unit doesn't run unless the day is going to be over 85F.
The issue is strictly in the panel cost and the demand is because of the PC's
Next?
Easy house to do, just the damned panel cost:

The problem is you'll have to tear up that new roof to put the panel brackets in and run the wiring. You do seem to have a bit of property though so maybe a trkg array wouldnt be bad for you. Which is the southern exposure in that pic?

-SS

[Movieman]

The problem is you'll have to tear up that new roof to put the panel brackets in and run the wiring. You do seem to have a bit of property though so maybe a trkg array wouldnt be bad for you. Which is the southern exposure in that pic?

-SS

My understanding was that the support brackets attached over the roof with self sealing screws and a little silicone caulk as insurance.
The south face is the front of the house, faces almost due south.

[ShootStraight]

Hmmm, IDK about that. I thought they had to be flashed in. I wouldnt want to rely on silicone. With the heating cooling of the array and the roof I'd think it would work loose. If water got under it and froze that would help that process dontcha think?

Sounds like you could put an array in the back, as long as the house doesnt shade it in the winter. Might be the best bet for you. Those pines to the west will give you problems, but it might be OK as it will only block afternoon sun, and your panels will be less efficient with warmer afternoon temps.

-SS

Edit: On second thought: I really DONT like the sound of that mounting system. That roof and those mounts will have to stand for 25+ years up there. You dont want to have to rip them off to fix something.

[Movieman]

Hmmm, IDK about that. I thought they had to be flashed in. I wouldnt want to rely on silicone. With the heating cooling of the array and the roof I'd think it would work loose. If water got under it and froze that would help that process dontcha think?

Sounds like you could put an array in the back, as long as the house doesnt shade it in the winter. Might be the best bet for you. Those pines to the west will give you problems, but it might be OK as it will only block afternoon sun, and your panels will be less efficient with warmer afternoon temps.

-SS

Edit: On second thought: I really DONT like the sound of that mounting system. That roof and those mounts will have to stand for 25+ years up there. You dont want to have to rip them off to fix something.

Carl: In February I will be 56..in 25 years I will be worm food..

[ShootStraight]

Yeah? With your luck you'll live to 97 like your Mom. Up there every weekend on a ladder with a tube of silicone. I can see how youre going to go...falling off a ladder fixing your damn leaky roof!

-SS

[Movieman]

Yeah? With your luck you'll live to 97 like your Mom. Up there every weekend on a ladder with a tube of silicone. I can see how youre going to go...falling off a ladder fixing your damn leaky roof!

-SS

Actually very comfortable on the roof..Worked off ladders when I was younger and a non issue, so far, but yea, see where your heading.
Lets assume that I would/could deal with the mount issue, it's getting the panels cheap that is the real issue.
We need a contact inside that industry who understands the purpose of what we do with these machines and wants to help.
I'm not looking for someone to give me the parts, just sell them to me at a price so that my bum doesn't hurt while I write the check..

[ShootStraight]

www.nanosolar.com ... Become a certified installer/distributer of Solar window awnings, etc for NH and make a fortune.

-SS

[Movieman]

www.nanosolar.com ... Become a certified installer/distributer of Solar window awnings, etc for NH and make a fortune.

-SS

From what I can see they aren't even started yet although they may do well in 1-2 years..I don't see a product available from them yet on that site.

[WindForce]

Interesting. I think I'll pass on solar for now.

Regarding LED bulbs, one of the downsides I've heard about them, besides cost, is the amount of light they throw out. A lot of people complain the light tends to be directional and not very bright. Some don't like the fluorescent glow of CFL's, but they do provide enough light for most rooms. I use one in the lamp that sits on my computer desk.

It's true the led lights tend to be directional, plus the led light is not dimmable. They took care of the issue by putting hundreds of leds in one bulb, each line of leds difusing differently, and also making it dimmable but turning on/off more leds every time...
Finally, the led light does not get hot, has a myriad of different colors and applications, can be installed in tough places etc...

[ShootStraight]

2008...As you can see they are taking Private placement investments, and are doing some large governmental contracts to get their capacity up. But its a rollin. The applications for the stuff is only limited by imagination.

-SS

[David_L6]

Roof is new(2 years) house is WELL insulated,drywall I can do,elec panel is not an issue, AC is 2- window units, one upstairs and one down,12,000 and 6500BTU, and the 12,000 unit doesn't run unless the day is going to be over 85F.
The issue is strictly in the panel cost and the demand is because of the PC's
Next?
Easy house to do, just the damned panel cost:

What's that stuff in your yard? Grass is green around here - unless your lucky and it's dead! Then it's brown. Stuff in your yard doesn't look like cotton either....

[Movieman]

What's that stuff in your yard? Grass is green around here - unless your lucky and it's dead! Then it's brown. Stuff in your yard doesn't look like cotton either....

That's what we northerner's call "Snow"..Actually that is what is left in the first week of May that year!
Now for real snow, we had what we called the "Blizzard of 78"
26" of snow over 2 days..Feb4 and 5,1978..I remember, the 5th was my 26th birthday, shut down the whole state of Mass and a few others..

[MotF Bane]

That's what we northerner's call "Snow"..Actually that is what is left in the first week of May that year!
Now for real snow, we had what we called the "Blizzard of 78"
26" of snow over 2 days..Feb4 and 5,1978..I remember, the 5th was my 26th birthday, shut down the whole state of Mass and a few others..

If I've heard correctly, 2003 had a faster rate of snowfall, but the plows were ready and kept up, unlike 1978, which was how the highways were buried. Of course, I might have heard wrong, considering that was over a decade before me.

[Movieman]

If I've heard correctly, 2003 had a faster rate of snowfall, but the plows were ready and kept up, unlike 1978, which was how the highways were buried. Of course, I might have heard wrong, considering that was over a decade before me.

2003 was nasty,yes, also remember that there were 25 years of technological advances between them.
In 1978 they knew it was coming..2 major storms back to back, just one of them sat here and didn't move.
I had a house right on Salem,Mass harbor then and was a "new Dad"..
Oldest was 7 months old then.Had waves breaking against the side of the house..Fun night..Went to work in the am and took me an hour to walk 2 city blocks..7ft drifts in the street, hoping from porch to porch to get by them.
It was one hell of a week..