NextGen VS. CurrentGen CPU: 3DMark06

[zakelwe]

wtf are you talking about.... EE was always 999$ (1000€) since the introduction of the extreme editions with the P4... actually the lost money by keeping the price constant since 2004... (inflation)

the other 2 EE you see coming in 08 are more like über extreme editions and its only logical to settle them on a higher price spot.

Firstly Intel did not lose money on them, they just did not make as much. There is a huge difference.

The ability to keep the price at $999 all through the Intel price war gives an indication that they felt no need to be competitive with AMD in that segment, they did in all the others. That indicates that they were "overpriced" to us buyers or to put it from Intels point of view, had a large maRgin.

I don't think you can bring P4 EE's into it as Intel only really started the pricewar with the last P4's but mainly Core chips, we do not know whether they would have brought the price down or not for a weaker part.

Another way of looking at it is if you think they are not overpriced then you must think they are either underpriced or else the right price. I doubt you would think they are underpriced and the mere fact that they are at an artifical $999 that does not vary between models shows they are not at the correct price, so that only leaves one option, they are overpriced.

Regards
Andy

[Hornet331]

i just lowered myself to your level.....
i was merely given an explanation why intel prices are considered high at the high end....

then your explanation is just plain wrong... why was intel chargeing 999$ for P4EE, PDEE etc. when amd "stomped" them.

If you where right they would charge 1500$ for a Extreme Core and not 999$

[Hornet331]

Firstly Intel did not lose money on them, they just did not make as much. There is a huge difference.

The ability to keep the price at $999 all through the Intel price war gives an indication that they felt no need to be compeitive with AMD in that segment, they did in all the others. That indicates that they were "overpriced" to us buyers or to put it from Intels point of view, had a large magin.

I don't think you can bring P4 EE's into it as Intel only really started the pricewar with the last P4's but mainly Core chips, we do not know whether they would have brought the price down or not for a weaker part.

Another way of looking at it is if you think they are not overpriced then you must think they are either underpriced or else the right price. I doubt you would think they are underpriced and the mere fact that they are at an artifical $999 that does not vary between models shows they are not at the correct price, so that only leaves one option, they are overpriced.

Regards
Andy

good point, but you seem to forget such products aren't priced like normal products, they are prestige products. They are not bound to any normal price fluctuations, like every other prestige product (rolex, etc)

hell the could charge even 1500$ or more, ppl would get them anyway cause for them money is no object. So i dont see there any "overpricing".

[User9498]

The only question I want answered. Who is this guy with the engineering sample so blatantly able to break his NDA?

[GoThr3k]

then your explanation is just plain wrong... why was intel chargeing 999$ for P4EE, PDEE etc. when amd "stomped" them.

If you where right they would charge 1500$ for a Extreme Core and not 999$

i am talking about the present,i dont live in the past......

[Hornet331]

i am talking about the present,i dont live in the past......

yes and now(in the present or better on the 12th of Nov.) they are charging 999$ for there top model like they allways did, i dont know what you want... (price gouging of e-tailers arn't intels fault)

[Epsilon84]

The only question I want answered. Who is this guy with the engineering sample so blatantly able to break his NDA?

Who says he signed an NDA?

[GoThr3k]

yes and now(in the present or better on the 12th of Nov.) they are charging 999$ for there top model like they allways did, i dont know what you want... (price gouging of e-tailers arn't intels fault)

high end is not only the 999$ part....

and again,i was just explaining why intel's prices may considered high

[Hornet331]

high end is not only the 999$ part....

and again,i was just explaining why intel's prices may considered high

show me one intel part that is more then 999$ till now.

the skulltrail cpus arnt gona be relead for a while and same goes for the 3.2ghz yorkfield, and as i mentioned erlier they are new products with a new price spot.

If they can charge more money for prestige products they will do it, i have no problem with that.

Also your labeling the category wrong, intel itself sees the extreme parts in the ethusiast category, which is setteld above the high end category...

and to repeat myself again, if you dont want to spend that much money on a cpu: DONT DO IT.

Noone forces you to buy it, there are plenty of cheap alternatives.

[GoThr3k]

show me one intel part that is more then 999$ till now.

the skulltrail cpus arnt gona be relead for a while and same goes for the 3.2ghz yorkfield, and as i mentioned erlier they are new products with a new price spot.

If they can charge more money for prestige products they will do it, i have no problem with that.

Also your labeling the category wrong, intel itself sees the extreme parts in the ethusiast category, which is setteld above the high end category...

and to repeat myself again, if you dont want to spend that much money on a cpu: DONT DO IT.

Noone forces you to buy it, there are plenty of cheap alternatives.

i was talking about intel cpu's <999$
sigh,i am not going to repeat myself for the third time.....

and about the labbeling,i would call xe ultra enthusiast,the part below that enthusiast
please,dont be ridicilous,you got my point (or so i hope

[expreview]

Please remember that, for now there is no native 3GHz Phenom. The test was OC the 2GHz ES(HT 1600MHz).

[PhilDoc]

Honestly, it was a little closer than expected. As far as the ram speed, he seemed to manage to increase it for the Phenom in the Crysis test. Why not run the same fsb and timmings with 3dmark. I don't understand why he didn't for this test, but maybe more comming later.

[generics_user]

Please remember that, for now there is no native 3GHz Phenom. The test was OC the 2GHz ES(HT 1600MHz).

and there is no way to overclock the northbridge (L3 cache)?

2 ghz opteron also has 1800 mhz NB speed using split power planes

[expreview]

and there is no way to overclock the northbridge (L3 cache)?

2 ghz opteron also has 1800 mhz NB speed using split power planes

BIOS have no option to change NB FID.The ES is 8x,so if the 200MHz FSB,NB Core speed only have 1600MHz Option.

some guy does not want to see the ES which can OC 3GHz, so let me do another test with the 9600/9500 retail.....

[EvlUndrWareNome]

i love phenom, but these split power lanes, weird ass dividers, crap, I might go Intel just so I know what everything is doing!

[Hornet331]

God, your an annyoing and inconsequent person....

first you say that:

intel is overpriced at the high end because there is no competition there

this implayes that you are complaining about the extreme cores (cause a Q6600 for 211€ or a Q6700 for 450€ and a E6850 for 230€ isnt overpriced.)

than you suddenly say

i was talking about intel cpu's <999$
sigh,i am not going to repeat myself for the third time.....

so if your not talking about the enthusiast cpus, which of the cpus are overpriced, tell me? the Q6700?

and about the labbeling,i would call xe ultra enthusiast,the part below that enthusiast
please,dont be ridicilous,you got my point (or so i hope

say that to intel, extreme cores are labled as enthusiast cpus, period.

i just lowered myself to your level.....
i was merely given an explanation why intel prices are considered high at the high end....

oh the name calling...

allways the same people.

[GoThr3k]

the first post you quoted was a reply to the post above that....
someone else complained about the high prices,i just gave an plausible explanation.....

and btw, thats not name calling,that was reality.....

[Hornet331]

you cant stop... its really sad...

[Soulburner]

Why are the Intel rigs getting a higher SM score? I thought that was all GPU, guess not.

[happychappy]

OMG, the ing is just getting ridiculous..

[Calmatory]

uhn dont play dump...
Core x Extreme = replacement for EE

save your flame baits for mstp2009

If you drink water with your breakfast, then replace it by milk, water won't become milk, but you still have a drink.

In this case, high-end stays, the EE doesn't.

[grimREEFER]

well, its gonna be really cheap im guessing if they plan on selling alot. it looks like they are targeting people who dont wanna spend the $266 for a intel cpu.

[Hornet331]

If you drink water with your breakfast, then replace it by milk, water won't become milk, but you still have a drink.

In this case, high-end stays, the EE doesn't.

point taken, but how can you say its expensive?

lets say E4400 is water and E6850 is milk? if you call 210€ for the top of the line dualcore expensive i think your not involved that long with cpus.

[mstp2009]

give me proof.

You wanted proof, here it is:
http://www.hypertransport.org/tech/index.cfm



HT1 has a max BW of 12.8GB/s at 800MHz operation.

Considering that we are talking ONE SOCKET SYSTEMS (Phenom, not Barcelona), that means even AFTER you subtract out the 6.4GB/s for full utilization of a dual-channel DDR2 controller on the memory bus, there is a full 6.4GB/s left over.

All CORE-TO-CORE COMMUNICATION on X2 and Phenom CPUs occurs via the crossbar or L3 cache, respectively. So there is STILL nothing that can fully utilize the extra 6.4GB/s BW in HT1, since CORE-TO-CORE COMMUNICATION has a dedicated pathway.


EDIT - HT3 on the desktop is like going from a 4 lane to a 16 lane highway when you are the ONLY car on the road in both cases. Just because you have more lanes, it doesn't magically make your car faster when there is nothing to impede it in the first place.

[GoThr3k]

You wanted proof, here it is:
http://www.hypertransport.org/tech/index.cfm



HT1 has a max BW of 12.8GB/s at 800MHz operation.

Considering that we are talking ONE SOCKET SYSTEMS (Phenom, not Barcelona), that means even AFTER you subtract out the 6.4GB/s for full utilization of a dual-channel DDR2 controller on the memory bus, there is a full 6.4GB/s left over.

All CORE-TO-CORE COMMUNICATION on X2 and Phenom CPUs occurs via the crossbar or L3 cache, respectively. So there is STILL nothing that can fully utilize the extra 6.4GB/s BW in HT1, since CORE-TO-CORE COMMUNICATION has a dedicated pathway.


EDIT - HT3 on the desktop is like going from a 4 lane to a 16 lane highway when you are the ONLY car on the road in both cases. Just because you have more lanes, it doesn't magically make your car faster when there is nothing to impede it in the first place.

awesome proof you got there