Here's a little teaser....

[flippin_waffles]

Oh, I'm not gloom and doom, just frustrated. You did notice that I said we wouldn't see the real potential of these chips until we had better mb. I meant that in a very positive way.

Yeah I know, Phil. My doom and gloom blabbering wasn't directed at you at all. Just an in general observation from all the forums I lurk at around the net. Although it was expected with the massive PR blitz that was launched against them over a year ago now.

[mutambo]

Just, what if...!

The doom and gloom makes me

For sure, OEM's and super comps are their priority and thats where they make bucks its a business fundamental.

Reminder: Its not about AMD and chips,its about boards and BIOS.

Topic here is not getting a decent board out,informing the same repeatedly to others,not a kid saying as AMD gone or some less mature remarks, and also note that HPC and super comp manufacturers wont read AnandTech or XS to buy chips/boards and wait for bench marks.

Here it is all about small biz owners,retailers for small clients. enthusiasts buy C2D Quad no offense.

If some one thinks ALL here are a bunch of enthusiasts play games using dual socket opterons,then one may need to rethink.

[PhilDoc]

Yeah I know, Phil. My doom and gloom blabbering wasn't directed at you at all. Just an in general observation from all the forums I lurk at around the net. Although it was expected with the massive PR blitz that was launched against them over a year ago now.

Well, lets hope that it goes the way you've stated it. Either way I think Phenom is going to do a little better than the nay sayers predict.

[KTE]

That Inq comment looks too much like someone reading here posting, and the words being used "apparently" means its not his own source. The way it looks, it could very well be an Inq employee posting a rumor and yet escaping any blacklash this way, which is something never out of their lowliness. It means nothing more than what we already know.

There's no doubt Family 10h has been a disappointment and pure source of frustration up until now and even worse with the future roadmaps all being so badly delayed. No dual core, no tr-core, and no FX till at least March 08, means the FX 3GHz shown in January will not even be released 18 months from the marketing. What a bad shambles that is. Then you have crap MB and BIOS issues.

[s7e9h3n]

OEM's get their chips months or atleast weeks before launch but not able to see a decent working board after weeks of launch is the problem,forget about benchmarking and losing crown kind of stuff.

Stabilizing takes time its ok, but minimal working should not.

Problem is with board makers or BIOS writers or with barcs or combined ?

Under normal circumstances, that's exactly how things should work but this time it didn't go as smoothly as planned. As you may or may not have heard, there was a HUGE problem with yeilds on the first run of Barcs. This problem wasn't something which was easily remedied, but ultimately things got fixed. In the meantime, AMD had fallen months behind schedule and instead of delaying the launch any further, the "original revised" launch date was still targeted. This resulted in an insanely short development time for even AMD's largest oem clients. TBH, I wouldn't be surprised to hear that mobo manufacturers were shipped samples as late as a few weeks before launch. IMO, Barcelona is a polished processor - probably exactly how AMD had originally planned it. The issues we're seeing involve compatibility with current mobos. The bios developers can't be blamed either as tey attemped to squeeze what normally takes months of testing into a period of a few weeks. I'm confident that things will sort themselves out in the coming weeks and we'll finally see what k10 is really capable of.

Back to the thread: Sorry I haven't had much time to update here lately I'll find some time to attempt to fill all the requests for benches. Oh, btw, did I happen to mention that ATI's Hammerhead arrived last week? Hopefully Phenom isn't far behind......

[Sparky]

Hammerhead? I don't remember what that is...

[PhilDoc]

I think its the RD790 mb.

[STEvil]

come on steve, give kribibench a run!

[doompc]

The Hammerhead

[bigdaddy25fb]

I like me some shark!

[RonindeBeatrice]

Read the whole thread!....

It only took two days. S7e9h3n, you mentioned that the new bios you've acquired (I won't even ask ^_^) work, but you've had no luck with the opterons still :-\ Do the bios you have on hand leave the old options for overclocking on the L1N open? Have you had any luck at all getting either CPU to boot?

I really appreciate the numbers you've thrown up, as well as everyones' contributions of information regarding these chips.

[SOLDNER-MOFO64]

The Hammerhead

Must...have....this........mobo

[Sparky]

The Hammerhead

Am I the only one who thinks its funny that the wire for that fan is so long and bunched up right there?

[BeardyMan]

Am I the only one who thinks its funny that the wire for that fan is so long and bunched up right there?

yes you are.....

[RonindeBeatrice]

Bananas to that mobo...

I want this:



The arrangement is just too ideal! My TV tuner in the PCIe slot just above the first graphics card, then a couple of 2950's and then a Auzentech Prelude to round the whole package out

Edit: I know that it's apparently a mock-up, I don't care! Give me one made of cardboard for all I care!

Edit2: Perhaps it's not a mock-up board, or AMD just wired the fans up to a car battery for this demonstration...

[JohannesRS]

that's my dream machine....

One day, one day...

[Sparky]

Edit2: Perhaps it's not a mock-up board, or AMD just wired the fans up to a car battery for this demonstration...

Nah the fans are plugged in. Circled in red in the attached pic, the wires are silver instead of the normal red/black/yellow.

Look at the green circled area - hmm, PCIe 2.0 slots apparently with only one 6pin plugged in.

Wonder what those two molexes are for though that I circled in yellow?

I see two 8-pin EPS connections on this board! Circled in blue - why not just one, are the CPUs really that power hungry that they can't run off of just 4 pins each?

[RonindeBeatrice]

Nah the fans are plugged in. Circled in red in the attached pic, the wires are silver instead of the normal red/black/yellow.

Look at the green circled area - hmm, PCIe 2.0 slots apparently with only one 6pin plugged in.

Wonder what those two molexes are for though that I circled in yellow?

I see two 8-pin EPS connections on this board! Circled in blue - why not just one, are the CPUs really that power hungry that they can't run off of just 4 pins each?

This was a fairly old pick, and IIRC they were running at 3.0 Ghz, so perhaps they were overclocking early silicon and they needed the extra stability of the 8pins/cpu. The molex's are totally unnecessary, I have one on my 580x crossfire board, and it's not required. I noticed the fan wires and yes that is a PCIe2.0 slot; the R600 is being powered by it and a sole PCIe connector ( = win)

[Viper666]

Because we care about desktop performance. Most of the desktop software today is single or dual threaded. Four threaded software is rarity and we haven't seen any application that can fully utilize all 4 cores yet.
About the "native" epithet, thats only a marketing which means nothing.

Depends on what is "very quickly". The cores on a K10 @ 2.4GHz or less are communicating slower than the cores of the different dies of the Core2 Quad MCM at same frequency.

Depends of what kind of SSE code. For some code it is true, for some it isn't. For example during the decode phase the 128bit SSE instructions on the K8 are being split(vector path code) in two 64bit and executed in 2 cycles. K10 doesn't split the 128bit SSE instructions and it is executing them in 1 cycle.

You would notice the same on every system, but it is more noticeable on a K8(regardless of the number of CPUs).
Sometimes yes, but sometimes it performs faster without NUMA. Depends of the OS and the code which is being processed.

The HT3 is useless on the desktop and it won't offer any performance benefit over HT2 or HT1.
The bandwidth on the AMD platforms scales with the number of sockets. So the single desktop CPU won't have more bandwidth than Barcelona(2 or more CPUs, ccNUMA). It will only have RAM with lower latency, which would boost its performance for sure. But how much, we can only speculate. Having two IMCs and a large L3 as a medium between the cores and the RAM leads me to a conclusion that it won't bring any dramatical performance improvements. 5% would be impressive.

I don't know who is the person, but I know that at higher frequency K10(and every CPU made up to date) doesn't scale better in performance. At certain frequencies(such are 1.6GHz, 2.4GHz and 3.2GHz) it will run the RAM at a little bit higher(5% to 10%) frequency, but it won't make any noticeable difference in performance. The same happens with the K8, but we don't see a 2.4GHz K8 offering any noticeable IPC advantage over a 2.3GHz.

This is nonsense. Barcelona doesn't scale better than linear, nor it scales linear.

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets...spx?i=3092&p=6
Note, that this comparison is between the "bugged?" B1 and the new B2, so if you compare B2 to B2, the scaling would be even lower.
Also there was a guy(I don't remember who) from AMD's server division who officially said that K10 @2.5GHz would be around 15% faster than a 2GHz K10.

im not going to respond to this except for this

anandtech's Linpack test clearly showed that the processor scaled from one socket to two better than 100% it was more than twice as fast on 2 as one(better than linear)!

As for the rest of what you said you dont own the hardware and are repeating what others have said .

then you can explain why Quad FX preforms better at 5-5-5-18 800 than at 4-4-4-12 800,we no an Intel wouldnt react the same,because the platforms are way different.
This is a server processor not desktop, a single socket will get more memory bandwidth on the desktop platform(single socket),obviously more processors on an NUMA system provides more bandwidth,thats why AMD made it.

last point years ago my friend did Seti he had an 866 coppermine Intel,over in the corner was an old Xeon P2 400 the P2 400 slaughtered the 866 on seti at half the clock speed,so he decided to try games on it,games werent even playable.
moral of the story trying to guess the desktop preformance based on server chips,doesnt always workout the way you think(pointless)
Spec clearly showed AMD smashes core on FP with proper code, its that simple by over %100 on some types of code,I could be wrong but I beleive there are 19 FP tests AMD@2Gh beat Intel@3Gh on 17 of them. It also clearly showed that Intel wins on povray,that eveyone loves to run.See what happend is this,new processor gets run on Spec Intel being a huge beast and Media hound runs over to Spec.org to see were they beat AMD,Then they use the media and such to make the tests they win standard bench marks,then Intel throws in there shady compiler and bam they have a winner.Anandtech also clearly showed that on code not compiled with the Intel compiler AMD wins again
http://aceshardware.freeforums.org/v...r=asc&start=60

hey if you cant win fairly cheat LOL

[knightwolf654]

Bananas to that mobo...

I want this:



The arrangement is just too ideal! My TV tuner in the PCIe slot just above the first graphics card, then a couple of 2950's and then a Auzentech Prelude to round the whole package out

Edit: I know that it's apparently a mock-up, I don't care! Give me one made of cardboard for all I care!

Edit2: Perhaps it's not a mock-up board, or AMD just wired the fans up to a car battery for this demonstration...

that looks like one of the old old old boards in my garage. way to green for my taste, functionality is consern #1 but jeez put some black or something in there so it dosent look like a fern is growing in my pc.

[red]

anandtech's Linpack test clearly showed that the processor scaled from one socket to two better than 100% it was more than twice as fast on 2 as one(better than linear)!


20-25 to 35-45, that's 100%+ alright. OTOH, 25-30 to 45-55, seems Intel scales better here.

last point years ago my friend did Seti he had an 866 coppermine Intel,over in the corner was an old Xeon P2 400 the P2 400 slaughtered the 866 on seti at half the clock speed,so he decided to try games on it,games werent even playable.
moral of the story trying to guess the desktop preformance based on server chips,doesnt always workout the way you think(pointless)

I don't see a comparison. You equate PIII vs PII with. Totally different archs, compared with Barcelona and Phenom, same core.

Spec clearly showed AMD smashes core on FP with proper code

SpecFP and SpecFP_rate aren't the same. SpecFP measures pure FP performance, specfp_rate runs multiple instances (not threads) of the same bench, using exorbitant bandwidth requirements. http://www.realworldtech.com/forums/...83478&roomid=2

See what happend is this,new processor gets run on Spec Intel being a huge beast and Media hound runs over to Spec.org to see were they beat AMD,Then they use the media and such to make the tests they win standard bench marks,then Intel throws in there shady compiler and bam they have a winner.



Anandtech also clearly showed that on code not compiled with the Intel compiler AMD wins again

I don't recall Anandtech disclosing which apps were compiled with what besides Linpack.

[biohead]

don't you people get tired of spreading "false misinformations"?? omg!

[BeardyMan]

If you don't understand the charts or if you don't know what does mean "better than linear", don't spread false misinformations. Here is the article from anand.

As it is obvious to anyone who can read the numbers and the charts:
Matrix size = 5000: 34 / 21 = 1.62 or 62% scaling
Matrix size = 30000: 44 / 23.5 = 1.87 or 87% scaling
There is no matrix size at which K10 scales 100% going from 1 to 2 sockets.


Some of us have already playing with K10, after and before it was released. Do you own a K10?

err.. Can you support this nonsense with anything?

Again, can you support this or you are just guessing?

What has the bandwidth to do with the performance scaling?

Both P2 and P3 have no common points with K10, nor Seti has a common point with the test from anand. Also instead of trying to teach us with your noob knowledge, educate yourself. P3 performs so great in games because it supports SSE, while P2 doesn't. The reason why Core2 kicks K8's ass in gaming is because of Core2's SSE performance. Because K10 has better SSE engine then K8, K10 performs better then K8 in games.
You don't have to be genius to conclude the performance scaling of an architecture similar to K8 on the same platform. QuadFX performs like a dual Opteron with the exception of few synthetic RAM bandwidth benchmarks. Why should anyone expect this to be different with K10 on the same platform?

Again you are spreading FUD. Spec clearly showed that Core2 smashes K10(as well as K8) on both INT and FP. Also, it seems that you don't understand, "the proper" code is the code made by SPEC and thats only code executed on these tests.

Again you are guessing something, and you are guessing wrong. Before you spread FUD, do a little research.

Are you copy-pasting this from AMDZone, Scientia's or Sharikou's blog?

Quick someone argue with this guy! i can't hes making perfect sense....

[LowRun]

false misinformations = true informations

[Morais]

false misinformations = true informations

LOL